Stosh

Don't feel bad about it, if one took WB pre-2000, you go back to being dumb until you take it again. Stosh

I'm planning on making square neckers for everyone in my new troop along with training on how to make the full use of them. Stosh

I hear you! At my age, a boy-led program is all that I can handle. Stosh

Rarely are heads truly round. If one looks at old scouting pictures one notices that the hat brim dips in the front and back. That is a real indicator that the head is oval in shape. Take any wide brimmed hat and pull the inside front/back out and the brim will do exactly that. If you wish to have a hat fit perfectly one needs to go to a hatter and have it fitted. They have steam machines that make the hat fit exactly the way you want it fit. I bought a wide brimmed Civil War beaver hat and had it fitted. It is a very stiff hat and after 5 years shows no change in shape, yet it is as comfortable as a stocking hat when worn. Stosh

About 95% of adult volunteers in a scout unit consists of parents. Pretty hard to tell them to go someplace else if they are interested in doing outdoor activities and if they do the ranks of adult leadership is going to take a real nosedive. Stosh

There are varying points of view on this subject. In an emergency, some say stay at home and others say, help is needed. Every community varies on this, but if a Scout troop is to be an actual asset in this process, it would be proper to approach the local disaster recovery agencies in the area and find out what they need the scouts might be able to perform. Once those parameters are defined, then just showing up isn't enough. The boys will need to be trained for the tasks expected of them. Then it would take annual communication to let the agency know of availability and numbers that could be expected. These kinds of things may vary from supplying bodies for a training drill conducted by the local rescue agency. It might be staffing a canteen for rescue workers on site of a disaster. It might be ... fill in the blank. One doesn't know unless they go and ASK! What if anything can the Scouts provide your agency in some kind of emergency? Once that question is asked and answered, then training, prep, whatever, can begin. Too often the situation is approached backwards. The scouts rack their brains thinking of ways to help, when it would be a lot easier just to ask, find out what they need, and then figure out how to deliver the service. Stosh

I would think a DL can ask a DC not to come around if they are not fulfilling their responsibilities as DC. No DL HAS to have a DC. It's a nice thing when it works out and a real pain if it doesn't. I always requested my DC's to serve for a full year, but the choice still theirs. I know of none of my boys ever leaving the Cub DL hanging and in a couple of cases the DC served 2 years with "his" boys. If the DL dumps his DC, the first call is to the SM to let him know the clock has stopped on this boy's POR time. Stosh

Every Jew, Christian and Muslim know there is no name for God. Either they leave it blank, or make up a name like Christians (God), Jews (Yahweh), and Muslims (Allah). Because of this when they change the US motto from One nation under God to One nation under whoever you want it to be, it's not going to bother me at all. It all refers to the same thing. It's kinda like when the State of Georgia was beaten down to changing it's state flag from the unofficial Confederate Battleflag of Northern Virginia and so they changed it to the official Confederate National Flag, i.e. Stars and Bars. Now every one is happy, even the Georgians! When people don't know what they're talking about it makes for some rather humorous results. Stosh

Without third party witnesses, the adult will ALWAYS lose the "he said she said" argument. G2SS is not for my boys, it's for me. Stosh

My recruiting policy for my boy-led program consists of: Cubs will want to join Troops where their friends are. If the Cubs join the Troop because they have had interaction a couple of times with the Scouts, they are more apt to join. The message being sent to the Cubs is: Your advancement (AOL) is dependent on what we do to help you. If we can help you with AOL we can help you with Eagle as well. Webelos who have a familiar DC will want to go to the troop where the DC is from. He's their friend already and if he can be their first PL, that would be great. If a troop doesn't make an effort to connect with the Pack, why would those Webelos boys want to connect with the troop. Even a poorly run troop that makes an effort is better than the best BSA program offered by another troop that hasn't the time of day to even say "Hi." I'm not saying they have to be BFF's, or that the troop has to run the pack program, just make enough connection to let the Webelos boys know that the troop is interested in having them join. Stosh

Fehler is correct in that opening and closing flags mark the beginning and ending of the meeting. People like routine, they like to know what's coming up so as to not be surprised. It doesn't have to be anything big and formal, just a little routine/ceremony to mark the place in the meeting where we are. I found that the agenda/schedule for the meeting is important for developing denner leadership as well. The boy needs to know what's next and what's expected of him at any given time during the meeting. Opening flags Crafts Games Announcements Closing flags Something simple like this allows the denner something to organize himself on and focusing on how his talents fit into that structure. I don't really like the kinds of organizations that rely on one surprise after another as their agenda for their meetings. It just lets me know that whoever is supposed to be running the show isn't prepared and has no more of an idea of what comes next than I do. The flag ceremony can be as elaborate as you want to make it. Denner: find the flag and put it in the middle of the table. Denner: do a uniform check to see if everyone looks nice, shirts tucked in, neckers on, etc. Denner: (Stand) Pledge, Oath (sit) DL: lets everyone know what the craft is scheduled for the night, At least during that brief ceremony, the boys' attention begins to focus (somewhat) on the meeting at hand. The closing ceremony does just the opposite, it wraps everything up, makes sure everything is picked up and put away and the boys are dismissed as a whole as compared to wandering off looking for their rides home. Stosh

G2SS is just that, a guide. Whereas one is trying to protect the scout, it is also important to protect the adult. I really don't want my scouting career go down the tubes because some scout had a beef to pick with me. All he has to do is make an accusation and I'm done. Currently I am starting a new troop and it has occurred more than once where I had only one boy show up for a meeting. Even though the G2SS says otherwise, I still don't want to be in a situation where I am 1 on 1 with a boy. So, I ask that a parent stay for the meeting. They simply sit in the back and read a book or whatever. No big deal, but I AM protected! Because we are not officially a unit as of yet, i.e. 5 boys and a committee, I still follow the G2SS recommendations. If one were to get really, really technical about the legalese of this whole situation, I am running a church youth program using the principles of BSA Scouting until we get the unit officially chartered. So technically I don't have to adhere to G2SS, but regardless of whether it is a church program or a scout program, 1 on 1 with an adult is not a good idea. The most recent "problem" I had was 1 on 1 with a boy on a public street. Fortunately there were 2 witnesses that told police that the boy was full of crap with his accusation. Sometimes even public streets aren't safe for adults. Stosh

If the ASPL calls Mr. Costco 3 or 4 times and that person always has an excuse for not helping, that is one issue, far different than having someone/anyone be available for a BOR at the last minute. A clear distinction needs to be drawn as to which of the two issues it really is. Focus needs to be drawn on each issue, not blurring the issues into one. Stosh

It helps to be a 12 year old in a 60+ year old body. You get to act like a kid and society writes you off as eccentric or a "bit tatched". Stosh

If it's a boy-led program, the boys are the one's deciding whether it's too cold outside or not. An adult that suggests substitute activities runs counter to the goal of the program. Of course they are free to go outside and stand in the cold if they think it's important. Flashlights don't work well in really cold weather. "OUR" policy? Do the boys have a place in this adult-run program? While the energy is put into dumping back on TW, no much is said to support the boys and THEIR decision to hold the game. By the time the third point TW makes, the argument had deteriorated down to legalese arguments. If G2SS states something, it doesn't make any difference if it's 90-degrees outside or 15 below! So often we get caught up in BS arguments that produce nothing more than hurt feelings all the way around. TW "It's too cold outside for the scouts...." Me - If the boys have their coats on, hats and mittens and this is what they want to do, it's okay with me. TW "They need flashlights/supervision, etc." Me - The Scout Motto is Be Prepared. If they don't have a flashlight, it's their problem, not mine. Good leadership needs planning and preparation, they'll figure it out next time. BTW, if you want to go out and keep an eye on them, you can, but my SPL is doing that already. TW - "G2SS says..." Me - Let me look that up, I don't remember reading that part. I'll discuss it with the SPL so he's aware of it if it's really a problem. Every point made by TW is countered with support for the boys' leadership development, not a defensive argument to protect/justify ME! Stosh

My gut reaction was: Why wasn't this BOR scheduled ahead of time? Why is the ASPL tapping into committee members at the last minute? Had he planned ahead on this, the MC could have made plans and maybe shopped the day before. So often we look at a person as the root cause of a problem, when basic problem solving is not looking for blame, but for ways to make the system work. Over the years I have seen people "solve" their problem by getting rid of people and somehow the problem just doesn't go away. Kinda makes one wonder why. I would suggest the ASPL plan ahead and schedule BOR's with enough time for people to be able to dedicate 100% of their attention on the situation at a prescribed time. I for one would appreciate the "heads-up" on things like this before the last minute. I don't expect my volunteers to be ready at the drop of a hat to step up and "do their job" when needed at the last minute for something. Nothing is as simple as one person being right and another being wrong as the cause of all problems. This situation was predicated on the fact the ASPL was running around at the last minute trying to throw together BOR's. Sorry, my attention would be focused on the ASPL and why he didn't respect the personnel on the committee enough to call a week in advance and set up time for the BOR's I'm sure the MC could have easily done his/her shopping the day before and would have been able to devote his/her time as needed. So to answer the question. NO I would not dress down the MC, but would have a constructive conversation with the ASPL on how to respectfully make plans to set up BOR's so as to avoid this problem in the future. Stosh

Over the years, my perception of group dynamics is a bit different than what most believe is happening. The younger generation likes change. Growth is by itself change. New things, different things, pushing the envelop, etc. are all part of a young person's life. On the other hand the older generation has seen tons of change from "back when I was a lad!" More change is no big deal for them, just chalk it up to yet another wild idea and lets see where it goes. The locked in generation are those between 30 and 50. These people have an idealized state in which they will fight tooth and nail to preserve. Change to them means the end of the world as they know it. They also happen to be the parents of scout aged youth. Thus the rub. Ever wonder why kids get along better with grandparents and the older generation than they do their parents and that generation? I don't. Knowing this, the "old guard" of most troops/councils are not the 60+ crowd, they are the older end of the staunch generation of Don't Rock the Boat people. They are well seasoned in the ability to fight off change and no new whipper-snapper is going to move in on their turf and cause a ruckus. Once you realize this, it makes life a lot easier to work with the kids. However, be careful of the parents (and others in the 30-50 year generation), that's where 95% of the problems will arise. Stosh

My Honor Scouts all wore Myer Flags as their necker. It added yet another element of usefulness to the necker. Stosh

We had some of our boys head out for a game in the park next to the meeting place. After about 15 minutes the boys dragged one of the boys in who had been rolling around on the ground and got a nail in his leg. We could have had 50 adults out there and the boy would still have found that one nail. It made no difference. The older boys applied first aid and hauled him back into the meeting hall and the parent whisked him off to the ER for a tetanus shot. Stuff like this happens and everything worked as it was supposed to from the boys' initial handling of the injury to getting him to the ER. BTW, the boy survived with no long lasting impact other than his parents harping on him that it was just 2 days before that incident that he had the cast taken off his broken leg. Stosh

A square necker is far more practical. I wear one, but only on outings where I actually use it for more than decoration. Stosh

Any Webelos II DC that transitions with his boy into NSP PL is priceless! Stosh

And when the smoke settled, it was determined that all the boys had a great time. That's all that counts. Stosh

All this speculation based on what? Guesses? Until after a round of rechartering there is no measurable what of knowing what if any affect this new policy has or will have. This discussion is nothing more than thread flaming. Stosh

Dedkad, maybe paperwork doesn't thrill you at the moment, but that might be what it takes to "pay your dues". I would take a committee position, and as a registered leader you can take YPT, MBC, and all the training you want including WB. Once trained, and as a registered leader, it opens the possibility of breaking some ice. As MBC, you will have an opportunity to work with the boys and if good reports filter back to the SM, there might be some "rethinking" of the current policy. You may even trailblaze an opportunity for other moms getting involved down the road. Stosh

Not all drivers wish to be reimbursed, but as far as the boys doing the planning, to assume a freebie ride is not being fiscally responsible. The price of gas needs to be taken into account and available in case some parent who is volunteering to drive doesn't have to personally calculate the cost before deciding to drive. A pickup pulling a trailer or with a heavy load is usually 15 mpg. A minivan will run 20 mpg. Calculate it based on current gas prices and mileage to the event. Anyone planning a trip of any sort personally needs to do this to calculate the expense, why would the boys, who are learning life lessons, not be doing this? Any driver who refuses the gas money is thanked for their donation, but drivers that can't afford to make the trip should graciously offered to cover the expense for them. After all, how is a trip to Philmont or Jambo (no rail or air service is going to get the boys there for free) be any different than an outing 25 miles away? Stosh