Stosh

When my boys come into the troop they are all required to go through the abuse pamphlet in the front of their book with their parents. Once that's done, they are instructed that whenever anyone makes them feel "concerned" about anything, tell an adult. If it's an adult, tell another adult. If they don't listen keep telling adults all the way to the police if necessary. I even add if it is me causing the concern, tell their parents right away. Along with that whenever an adult is doing something that isn't right, they have the right as a leader to step up and say, "WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, " and then follow it with their concerns. This applies to other youth "leaders" in the patrol or troop. It is my hope that such training in my troop would have brought this kind of activity to a screeching halt right from the beginning. My boys are repeatedly taught that if it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't, but don't keep silent, take the lead and speak up. If you are wrong, suck it up, learn from it, and move on. If you're right, there are a lot of others that will thank you for it. Occasionally I "test" my boys and those that speak up are encouraged to continue the process. About two or three times a year I will wear a pair of pants that are not uniform, but may look quite close or not wear a necker. More than once I have scouts come up and say, "With all due respect, Mr. B, we are a full uniform troop." It heartens me to know they are paying attention. Stosh

I spend a lot of time working with boys from TF on doing "projects". They can take the lead on any activity the patrol and/or troop may be doing. I had one boy research a patrol-method summer camp, register the troop, sign up all the boys, arrange for MB's, line up transportation and generally do everything else to get the boys to the camp. This boy was a Star scout at the time, age 14, all which in the general troop operations would be done by a SM or ASM. I had another boy run the entire popcorn operation for one year. He did everything except sign for the popcorn when it arrived. It was the most effective popcorn sale ever done by the troop. The boy was not yet FC, nor old enough to go to Philmont. Each of these activities required more leadership than most Eagle projects out there. For Eagle projects, both of my Eagles were warned by council that the scope of their activity was too big for an Eagle project, 1) Clean out an 4 acres of swamp with pond to restore back into city park land status (even had a food tent to serve the workers who came to help out), and 2) all the outside landscaping on a new mission church that was built in town, clean up construction debris, then plant trees, shrubs, and sod. In my estimation, the two Eagle projects were a great benefit to the sponsoring organizations, but did nothing to show what an Eagle project would/could do for advancement. These boys had done many "Eagle type" projects during the course of their normal scout development. The church cleanup/landscaping Eagle was the same boy that 2 years earlier did the Summer Camp project. From what I have seen in the leadership development of Eagles coming out today, the project did nothing to prove anything in terms of putting together their leadership skills on a project. Over the course of the past 30 years I have seen more adult leadership done on many of the Eagle projects than the boy himself, yet they got credit for the project. If they wish to drop the Eagle project requirement, fine. I don't have a problem with that, but that doesn't mean it's not business as usual in my troop. By the way, I haven't got the paperwork in on my new troop, but the boys are already lining up two activities, 1) campout (the boy taking this one already knows of cabin availability and cost and is working on menus at the present time), and 2) swimming at the local pool. The boy doing this will be calling the school to find out open swim times and costs). Most of these boys crossed over from Webelos in January. None of them are Scout rank as of yet but all are 11 years old. Personally, for me leadership Eagle projects really don't mean a whole lot. Stosh

When camping in the back country, I carry the BSA camp knife, a sheath knife/belt axe combo. I can create, quicker, more firewood/kindling/tinder with the belt axe than with either the pocket knife or sheath knife. This is because the belt axe is honed to a knife-blade edge instead of the regular axe edge. The belt axe is far more effective for heavy cutting than chopping with a Bowie knife which is too lightweight. For food preparation, it's the sheath knife. Cleans up far better than crud stuck inside the workings of the pocket knife. I have carbon steel blade knives and require oils to prevent rust. Soap/water cleanup removes those oils and rust can begin in as little as 6-8 hours. Those oils don't mix well with food either. I use the camp knife for rope work, whittling for entertainment and other small jobs around the camp. I have both the BSA knife/axe combo which works the best, and a modern light-weight knife/axe combo for backpacking. For backpacking I switch to the BSA whittler for a pocket knife. Don't have use for the weight nor the can opener. Like any utensil, it can be used as a tool, weapon or toy. If people are worried about which is being applied, they had better ban walking sticks as well. I have seen boys abuse that distinction with walking sticks more than I have with sheath knives... which are allowed, and after proper training, encouraged in my troop. Stosh

Just put down an "X" and then have someone else sign verifying it is your X. Stosh

Yeah, but I get to hand out pens with every card. Stosh

The original post does not indicate the # adults involved, but to avoid burnout it would be a good idea to have a few on hand. While it is not impossible to run a good program as Barry indicates, for the "average" DL the large group might be too much and unfortunately the #1 thing that often times takes a hit is quality of program. Yes, a good DL can do a great job and provide the exception, but for a newbie DL with basic training it might be an overwhelming task right from the get-go. My sincere appreciation goes out to the DL who can handle it, but for those that can't it can be a disaster for the boys. More adults, or break the group up, I would surely hate to lose a good DL to burnout without some help from the concerned CM. Stosh

Pack18Alex, You are probably correct in your assessment of beads and how they affect the boys. This works well for the Cubs and accomplishes the short term desire of the DL. Well behaved boys, give them a bead. However, that process only works for a while. Next they'll want bigger and better awards for paying attention, maybe candy, or a small prize. Then it escalates to the point where in Boy Scouts, the bead at the end is Eagle. If I just keep following the process, I'll get the reward. Nowhere along the line does it create one iota of leadership or character development on the part of the boys. If they just follow directions, pay attention, and do what the leaders say, you'll get your Eagle. As a result we have seen many concerns expressed on the forum of how well that works. I would think for Tigers, it is a god-send because the boys don't know the ins and outs of the program yet, but by the time they get to AOL that system needs to be totally abandoned, maybe even by the end of the Bears year. Stosh

for that price I can get about 180 ball point pens from Staples (60/$5.79). At the rate I lose them, after 3 years, I'll probably still have 160 of them. A scout is Thrifty. Stosh

Or more explicitly put: "We have all the right answers, you don't." Stosh

The expensive ones are. Stosh

We've got Packs out there smaller than this den. Steps needed to be taken to avoid this in the first place. Once you let the cat out of the bag, it's really tough to rein it in. If everything is "for the boys", I wonder what kind of programming these boys are getting when such a large group is attempted to be handled all at the same time? Now that the den has been created, who in their right mind would jump in and help out with such a large group? A lot of questions going on here and the answers aren't all that good for the boys. Stosh

The single overhand knot designates it's a DISTRICT award, the full knots are COUNCIL/NATIONAL awards. At least that's what I've been told. Stosh

One has to always remember with the different religious groups that there is always a major disconnect between their theology and their traditions. Religious organizations that rely more on tradition than theology always have a more difficult time theologically accepting people of a different traditions. Currently I am involved with 4 different "christian" theologically based organizations that would rather sling arrows at each other than pray together. This is why I am involved with them but not a member of any. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God." Matthew 5:8-10, isn't in any of their tradition radars, but it is part of all of their theology. Heck, most "chrisitian" organizations fight with themselves as much as they do others! These break-away groups are nothing more than a continuation of the fragmentation they seem to enjoy the most. It's just another way to say, "I'm better than the rest of you." I'm thinking TLUSA and AHG fall into that category, at least that's what their media PR seems to be saying. Stosh

I'm thinking a nice Word document, properly formatted, could handle hundreds if not thousands of blue cards in just a few minutes. I'm still thinking a pen would be easier to carry around than a laptop and printer. Or, maybe there's some boy out there that needs service hours... no!, an Eagle project, yeah, that's the ticket! Stosh

If you're going to go to that much trouble. Skip the stamp and just use the pad and put down a thumb print. No one can say it's not you signing! Stosh

I'm a bit old-fashioned. It's always easier to carry a pen in my pocket than a stamp and pad. Stosh

To a certain extent, I think today's culture is a bit burned out on the self-esteem issue. They know that if they simply show up they get the ribbons, the trophies and all sort of junk of which they know the real value. It works on the younger boys, but as they mature, they see the program for what it is worth...not much. So then how does one continue a worthless program? Beats me. What we have trained our youth to do is show up, get the credit and then sit on their hands. If you expect them to "go beyond" the freebies and actually accomplish something on their own, well, that takes more than a ribbon to accomplish that. It begins the process of moving the program from self-esteem to self-respect and that takes time. The process is kinda hard to do, as with anything that involves growing up. As a matter of fact one may have to actually tell the boy to grow up and that's quite a blow to his coddled self-esteem. A sophisticated scout may be able to con those around him, but he'll never be able to con himself. One of the big problems with growing up is that the process of self-awareness kicks in and it isn't what everyone's been telling you all along. Stosh

I always wear full uniform for all scouting activities, camping, hiking, canoeing, etc. I bought 2 pair of uniform pants in 1993 and still wear the same two today. Stosh

IMITATIONS of the US military are prohibited, not the real thing, think Sea Scouts..... The BSA is the only non-military organization authorized to wear US military uniforms if they so choose. Stosh

This is why I don't have "elections". I just let the boys come up with their leadership on their own. A natural leader will stay in that position for however long he wants to do it. Telling him he has to step down after 6 months is not on my radar. However, if the boys select a leader that doesn't do what they expect of him, they simply select another and another and another until they get the one what works for them. My only "rule" which in fact is only a suggestion for the boys is that the patrol have 6-8 members. They work out whose in what patrol and whose going to lead it. That way if something goes awry with the system, they have no one to blame but themselves. Of course the means to correct the problem is within their scope to change, too. It has worked for me for many years and tend to not have any serious problems along the way. I never hear: "Our PL isn't doing his job!", or "Our PL doesn't show up for meetings/activities!". Long before it gets to that point, the boys have already made the changes. Boys wanting to "try out" leadership, can offer to take a role to see how it works. I have had one or two boys take PL for just summer camp. I have had a boy research different summer camps and then serve as SPL for the week, only to step down after the week is over. I have had TF boys take on a service project and act as SPL organizing PL's and their patrols for just one day. I have had PL's that knew they were going to miss an activity and have had their APL's take over on an activity well before the event and then carry through to the end. A lot of PL's often are busy with school activities and hand over the responsibilities of the patrol to their APL for a whole season of sports, only to pick up again when they get back. For those that insist on mixed patrols, this can be a good thing. NSP has the okay to ask any boy in the troop to be their PL. If there are only 6 webelos crossing over, they might pick a couple of the older boys to step in and be their leadership. No "rule" says they can't do that. If all the older boys want to patrol up together. Fine, no problem. I never have to set up a Venture Patrol, the boys have that option anytime they want it. If the Venture Patrol has 8 boys and the NSP asks two of them to help out with their startup, fine. At the end of an arbitrary length of time the NSP are up and running, the older boys can ask to return back to the Venture Patrol. Letting the boys make those decisions really takes a lot of the having to create rules on the part of the adults. Just stay out of it and let the boys figure it out. What I have noticed is that the older boys like to hang together, but if asked, they will readily help out the new guys get up and running. As a matter of fact, a lot of the older boys like getting asked by the new guys. They know it's not forever, but they take on the task until the job is done and the new guys can then pick from their own members if they wish, or ask another older boy, whatever they wish. By keeping the guide-line 6-8 boys, two boys from any patrol can step out of the patrol temporarily to help out elsewhere and not lose their bond with their buddies. Those that do step out are those looking for leadership opportunities that might not be forthcoming because they have a strong PL/APL team running their patrol. These boys tend to be the temporary SPL's that line up service projects, or may organize summer camp or some high adventure outing. If they don't do it for the troop, they still might step up and show some leadership initiative within their patrol. A boy working on an Eagle project might be one of these "extra" leaders that is nothing more than a member of a patrol that finds it necessary to step out of the patrol member role into a leadership role to accomplish his project. Stosh

I'm with Kudu. BSA had a great program and extensive membership. Then they repackaged the program and the membership took a dive. The Ritz might have had a great steak dinner served with all the flair of a posh restaurant, but when they changed their menu to burgers and fries, they lost their clientele. To this day they have no idea why. Stosh

You might also consider going with some sort of glued in wedge inside the buckle that would put more pressure on the belt against the roller if the roller still has enough grip. It might be that the gap between the narrowest part has become too opened. I have a belt I've used for 30+ years and still works fine. Brass is a soft metal and parts become worn and bent, check to make sure the gap isn't too big due to usage and put something in there that will force the belt against the roller. Also, if the roller is wearing a smooth spot on the webbing, adjust the buckle so the roller hits a fresh part of the belt. Stosh

What you saw was a section of a troop meeting supposedly designed for a Webelos visit. Keeping that in mind, don't go with first impressions. Take in 2-3 visits and then do the same for other troops. Give them a chance to show what they really do, not what they want you to see. Once you have done all that, you are correct in letting your son decide. It's going to be his troop in the long run. There's always the possibility that by looking at all the other troops in the area, he'll come back to the first option. At least he will know what other options are out there and they weren't any better. With that being said, now you work with the troop to make things better if all the options didn't come up to one's ideal expectations (which it never does). If he decides with the first troop and he had a bad experience, maybe he ought to take the lead on running next year's Webelos program to make it better than what he had. The worst case scenario is he looks at them all and decides Scouting is not for him. Throughout this process, you will need to stay excited and communicate with him. I wouldn't accept an "Okay" answer, nor would I accept shrugged shoulders. Talk with him and let him express his concerns with you and you with him! Maybe the game they were playing wasn't the best for him, but remind him that the troop probably has more than one game they play and the next one will be more fun. As an adult you will be better able to see where he might fit in and be able to offer some good leadership challenges for him to consider. You are his #1 support person who is there to mentor him into a good experience. Best of luck with your boy's search, Stosh

Most banks offer debit cards on their checking and savings accounts, they work just like credit cards on Ebay, and they're free, no annual fees, no monthly billings, no interest/minimum amount due. Stosh

What I do is type it into the forum editor and if it's something I don't want to lose when I hit the post button, I save off into a text document. Hit post if it posts, good, if not, I copy and paste from the text document and the formatting from the forum editor stays put. Just a little suggestion to use especially on the posts/responses you put a lot of thought into and don't want to lose. You put out some good thoughts and having invested some time and thought into it, it's really a shame to lose it. Stosh