Stosh

Just off the cuff, the OA is a boy group with adult guidance, at least in theory. If the Chapter has good adult leaders and the Chapter is active and doing well, then I don't see any real need for another adult on the roster. You can always champion OA in your troop without being a member of the OA yourself. One does not need to be an OA member to make sure your boys have an opportunity to be involved with the program. Stosh

As a former EMT-A, I would caution the use of invasive treatments provided by lay people. Yes, it's a case of life and death, but as a EMT-A, I was taught how to provide epi treatment without leaving finger prints on the syringe so to speak. Troop "rules" may run counter to BSA policy or local law, find out how it works if you have members of your group that carry eip pens. Stosh

Or you could find a summer camp that doesn't do the troop-method mess hall and get the stuff done at summer camp. Stosh

"Stosh, In case anyone ever does ask you to help with this MB: Broiling and grilling are basically the same thing," until you want to brown the top of your lasagna or pizza. Then the grilling kinda falls short. But maybe you could give it a try. "pan frying is where you cook something in a fry pan with just enough fat/oil to keep it from sticking, think frying an egg or a piece of fish." Okay, I'll buy that. "simmering is when you cook something in a liquid just below the boiling point, this is usally how you finish off a sauce." I thought you would do that in a sauce pan, not a fry pan??? "A wok would be excellent to use." "I would definitely let a scout cook a hot dog on a stick as a kabob, but he would need to put some veggies on the stick too." Isn't that adding to the requirement? "The trick is cutting the veggies the right size so that they stay on the stick and cook enough while at the same time you don't burn the hot dog." They aren't going to eat the veggies anyway, do the dog, toss the rest. "As for the marshmallow, I would definitely allow that as a kabob, but again you need to add some other ingredients to qualify, I would suggest fruit, probably peaches or apples." Along with adding to the requirements, one's gotta remember the rules against catapults mentioned in the other thread. Do the fruit, add the marshmallow, when the marshmallow is done, eat it and catapult the burnt fruit into the woods. "As I think more about it that last would work really well, probably roast the fruit a little first then add the marshmallow right at the end. If you're really gutsy put some dough on there too, the timing for that would be tricky. I may try this when we're out next week." If you think I can butcher these requirements, wait until you get in front of the boys, they can come up with suggestions that could blow away my answers. Stosh

SPL with 6 boys? Where's the PL? Where's the APL? If I had 6 boys and no leader, I would just have a volunteer step up and take the reins. If no one wants to, they can wallow in their confusion. I find that if left alone, they will figure it out. Stosh

Good question! - somebody's messing around again. Stosh

MICROWAVE????? OMG! What's the difference between simmering and pan frying? Kabobs? Hotdog on a stick! Yeah, there's a meal for ya! No BROILING? And marshmallows? Is that Kabob style of cooking and can it be used as a separate desert? Gee, I could have a ton of fun and frustration with that MB. Is a Wok a fry pan? No double boiler work or is that just steaming? I bet they never ask me to do this MB... Stosh

Plastic? I really don't like the idea of cooking in plastic, I'll stick to the aluminum DO. I like my baked goods browned. Steaming in the culinary world is expressed as cooking with moist heat, it is great for vegetables, seafood, etc. The temperature is limited to 212 degrees F. (unless under pressure) which is a moist delicate heat for delicate foods. All one needs to do is get above 165 degrees to completely cook food. Baking is cooking with dry heat. The temperature can reach well above anything one wishes for baking. <300 degrees, warming oven, 300 degrees, cool oven, 350 medium oven, and 400+ hot oven. Not many people want to go above 450. The result browning and drying moist ingredients. What these people hope to do with a steam baker is beyond me. The best one will get out of it is baking in a warming oven setting. If one is not interested in browning, one can always cook their baked goods in a fry pan on the stove. I have seen boys do a fry pan cobbler that is everything except browned. If one wishes light weigh, I'd go with a reflector oven where one is not limited by the temperature of steam. Stosh

Although it isn't specifically required in the MB book, I alway add (for optional, educational purposes only) the opportunity to learn how to cook 5 different ways. Utinseless, mess kit, pot, fry pan, and Dutch oven. Dutch oven is both wood and charcoal. That way the boys can learn how to camp cook in a variety of different situations. Everyone does the utinseless method to show off. Pot is normal for a ton of applications, i.e. soups, boil potatoes, carrots, etc. Fry pan can be used to do up large amounts of patrol messes, pancakes, burgers, gravies and sauces, The mess kit for doing personal cooking. The easiest recipe is the Hobo dinner in the plate/pan combo. Otherwise, fry onion and burger in the pan, and boil carrots and potatoes in the pot. Do a bit of flour in the frypan with milk/water from potatoes for gravy, drain potatoes, carrots, mash the potatoes in the plate, add a bit of brown sugar and butter to the carrots, toss in the burger/onions and pour gravy over potatoes/burger. That meal will beat any Hobo dinner out there, even though the ingredients are basically the same. Every time the boys plan a Hobo dinner, I always remember my secret stash of garlic powder, brown sugar, and flour. The Dutch oven is a nice way of preparing large amounts easily, but the use of wood vs. charcoal is always a finesse technique. Everyone does the one-Dutch meals but expanding into baking biscuits for biscuits and gravy (one Dutch and one fry pan) is really a nice touch. Too many people limit the DO to an extended pot cooking (stove top) sytle, instead of using it as a baking (oven) type of tool. Doing cobblers is pretty much a dump cake no-brainer, but doing a chocolate chip cookie cheese cake is a real treat. In any DO dessert competition, the cheese cake will blow away any kind of a cobbler every time. Stosh

We use a "safety area" at all campouts. If boys wish to use axes, saws, knives, etc. they have a place to go. Usually it's just an area roped off with twine between 4 trees. It's worked well for us. During service projects where tools will be used, the boy with the tool is responsible for the safety of anyone (including themselves) in a 10' radius of their work. No two people can be in those areas at the same time without getting yelled at by anyone seeing it. Stosh

As far as my leadership training goes, I have a short and sweet training program. If you become PL, the training is "Take care of your boys." If you become APL, the training is "Take care of your boys and your PL." SPL = "Take care of your PL's." ASPL = "Take care your PL's and your SPL." etc. When they ask, "How do I do that?", the answer for all of them is, keep asking, "What can I do to help?" End of lesson. As SM, that's the only question I ever ask my boys, after I tell them I'm not going to do it for them. The only time boys get into "trouble" is when they aren't doing this. Stosh

That's all part of the menu planning process. Are there foods that need to be avoided? A running list needs to be identified and the list posted and reviewed every time a meal is planned. This might also include foods that the patrol will refuse to eat whether they are allergic to it or not. Sever allergies need to be identified and all efforts on the part of the patrol need to be a high priority. It might mean looking on labels when shopping, making sure the food doesn't get cross contaminated during prep, etc. It's an vital lesson for the boys to be learning at this age, these kinds of things are becoming more and more prevalent and dangerous for those who suffer from these problems. Basically if the food is avoided during the planning stage, then shopping is far easier, but still need to read labels, and if no allergens are present, cross-contamination should not be a problem. Stosh

I don't think a boy has to be friends with everyone in the troop. Running around "making friends" is tantamount to campaigning and is how the popular boys get elected. That's not everyone's style or desire. I would think it a bit more valuable to be elected based on merit. If the only people getting into OA, then it's a group of schmoozers and maybe that's not the kind of group one wishes to be part of. Merit, on the other hand produces a quality OA chapter of dedicated worker/leaders, the goal of the OA in the first place. It is mentioned that this boy has shown up for 99% of all activities. While attendance counts for something, it's not the most valuable measurement and often doesn't take into consideration more important factors. It's kinda like wearing the POR patch. You got it, big deal, or in this case, you showed up, big deal. Once you have the patch or show up, what's next. This is how merit is measured. Is the boy making himself helpful to others in the troop? Taking on that helping kind of leadership sells big time when it comes to elections. Who's the guy who always seems to be there ready to go when someone needs help? One does not need an official leadership designation to fit this bill. PL is stumped because the scout designated on the duty roster to clean up after the meal is nowhere in camp. But this other scout steps in and cheerfully takes over that job. Will the PL remember that come election time? Yep if it is an on-going thing. Do they need to be friends? Nope! Not at all. Stosh

Pedigree is not a breed, quality, or personality of an animal, it's just a piece of paper. Stosh

The problem is not with your kid, he's doing it right. It's the other kids and their propensity to vote by favoritism rather than merit that's the problem. The system may be flawed, but there are a ton of things in the real world that are flawed in the same way. Your boy is learning this at an early age and it will pay off in the long run. Good things come to those who wait. Stosh

So what? Just don't click the link! Suck it up, I've given directly to units over the years and I prefer that all kids get a chance to go to summer camp, not just the kid that showed up at the door. Stosh

Or, you can go to the local tech school, avoid the huge student debt, be out by the time your 20 and work for 60 years and make as much as the Harvard grad who spent 30 years paying off student debt before they started making real money. Stosh

Okay, here's my chauvinistic slant on it. Mom and Dad are at the base of the huge tree. Little Johnny or Little Janie is getting ready to climb it. Mom says, "Be careful! Maybe you shouldn't be doing this." and Dad asks, "How high can you climb?" Well, when Mamma ain't happy, nobody's happy. Well, there you have it. Nobody's happy anymore. Stosh

All groups cycle as time progresses. A group starts out, they are interested in recruiting and getting things up and going. The cycle is going up. Once they reach a saturation point, the energy levels off and becomes rather myopic. Recruiting isn't a priority anymore, we got enough. This then leads to a gradual decline as the boys age out and no new blood is coming in. Once the group is perceived as declining, recruiting becomes increasingly more difficult because no one wants to join a declining group. Only when it gets desperate do people start the arduous effort of recruiting or the group collapses completely. This process repeats itself over and over again. Only when a group realizes this and avoids the myopic view of the group will the group be able to maintain itself. No one really wants to look "forward" beyond their son's involvement, it's for my son, not someone else's. There is no future leveling maintenance in a group that is looking out only for itself. tnff: it is obvious in the cycle where you currently are at. Now the decision is to fish or cut bait. There are two schools of thought on this decision. If you start over, there's no negative tradition that may have taken hold during the decline period. But if you start over, you have the nobody knows who or what you are all about. If one doesn't buy into this process, just ask your Webelos II people what they are doing about recruiting new Tigers. When they tell you, "Nothing!", then you know you're on the downward slope. They have no investiture in that Pack anymore. They got what they wanted, let someone else worry about the future. Stosh

< 18 years old, youth, > 18 yers old, adult. Has nothing to do with the patch on the sleeve or the duty assigned. Stosh

What I can't figure out is why the water? Wouldn't that make the baked goods soggy? I can see it to protect the bottom of a dry pan from warping, but a steamed cake vs. a baked cake doesn't appeal to me. At least the DO is heavy duty enough to heat dry without warping. I'd be more inclined to go with a reflector oven over the steamer idea. Stosh

Well I guess the snowball fights at winter camp are now out, too. Because of the mechanical nature of the propellant, I'm thinking baseball games are now out, too. Maybe we can get RangeMasters to double as umpires. What's next? Stosh

Aluminum Dutch oven. I can hold straight out at arms length, one hand. It is great for holding kitchen supplies as well. For kayaking/canoeing, it's great! I even took it to the BWCA in the bottom of a duffle bag. Stosh

An aluminum Dutch oven will do the same thing without the water. As a matter of fact any Dutch oven will do it. Instead of a grate in the bottom, just put three small rocks under the pie pan and it does the same thing. Stosh

And it's an valuable teaching tool for the boys on how to bend, skirt around and ignore the rules when it's feasible to do so. Stosh