Stosh

Albert Ellis, a psychologist from back in the 1970's, put it plainly. No matter how well liked you are, no matter how much you love and are loved, everyone sooner or later is going to crap all over you. Once you realize that, life is a lot easier to deal with and you aren't surprised by people you thought you knew the best. I must say, it's worked out well for me over the past 40+ years. The few times people have gotten on my case just don't seem to be as important as all the good things being done around me. Once people realize they don't get the results they were trying for, they simply give up and go back to the way things were. Stosh

If you think you might have refrigeration, obviously one doesn't need trail/backpacking food. Do it up right with fresh food, with the minimum of highly processed junk. If you want to become a really good cook, shop the outside walls of the grocery store only. Fresh produce, fresh meats, fresh dairy and fresh bakery. Go into the center aisles only for paper towels and toilet paper. Start with produce. Potatoes, carrots, onion, squash, parsnips, and other "heavy" veggies do not need refrigeration. More delicate fruits and veggies need to be in ziplock bags to keep from getting messy when they get crushed. They shouldn't require any refrigeration if going for a weekend. Meats Ziplock bags and freeze the week before. Generally the meat may take until Saturday night to thaw anyway. It also doubles as "ice" to keep other foods cool, i.e. dairy. Dairy Unopened cheese should be okay for the weekend, keep milk with the frozen meat to stay cool. Wrap in newspaper to insulate and slow down the thaw. Yogurt and protected eggs should last throughout the weekend without refrigeration. If you want eggs to last a week. Dip quickly in wax. That seals out the air that causes eggs to spoil and give the shells a bit more durability protection. Bakery Breads and muffins should last without refrigeration. If you want to do the Dutch Oven baking, cut the instructions off the box and dump in premeasured amounts ingredients into ziplocks, then just add liquids when you need to an reseal the ziplock and mix in the bag, no bowl necessary. It's cheaper than buying pre-processed stuff like pancake mix in a bottle. Total waste of time, money and flavor. If you do slip into the center aisles, focus on foods that are already dry, i.e. rice, pasta, etc. Buy sauces in plastic bottles or repackage if it only comes in glass. Carry, flour, salt, pepper and spices (garlic and onion powder, not salt) in small ziplock bags. Small bottle of olive oil in a reused ketchup bottle works great. Just squeeze out what you need. Except for the milk which will spoil quickly in hot weather and meat, everything else mentioned above doesn't really need refrigeration. The last thing you really want to buy and the first thing most people do, is pre-processed and canned foods. Most of these are hyped up on salt and preservatives because they have stripped out 95% of the nourishment and flavor. Bon Appetite! Stosh

After a meeting of the minds, somehow a PL emerges from the patrol. He stays there until the patrol decides otherwise. If an SPL is needed, the PL's figure out which one will do it. He's the PL to the PL's. If the job becomes burdensome, he can take on the SPL full time and his patrol needs to select a new PL. The SPL serves until the PL's decide otherwise. I really don't care how the boys select (not necessarily elect) their leadership, but after many years of working with the boys, the cream always seems to float to the top. To give you an idea of how my boys operate, I use the standard line of march analogy. The Trail Leader is out front. His job it to make sure the trail is safe and clear for everyone following. The second person in line is the navigator. His job it to keep the Trail Leader moving in the right directions according to the map/compass. The slowest person is third in line to regulate the speed of travel. The rest of the boys follow along EXCEPT the PL who is the last person in line. Why the last? Because he's the only one who can see everyone, all the time, without having to turn around and look. No straggler having trouble gets past him and he can bring the march to a halt at any time if someone is having difficulty. He's in total control of the situation and he does it from the rear! It's his job to take care of the group. He carries a whistle to signal the Trail Leader when to stop and when to start. My best scouts learn to lead from the back! All good servants bring up the rear. New an up-and-coming leaders know they are getting groomed for the next step in the leadership development process when they are asked to "bring up the rear." (Technically they are second to the last with the mentoring PL right behind him.) By the way, adults are never in the first, second or last position, always in the middle somewhere, where the boys can keep an eye on them. Stosh

The "something you're missing" is the sarcasm aimed at the hypocrisy of the scouting of today. The BSA tries really hard to avoid the image of the boys being a para-military organization, yet use terminology related to it on a routine basis. Even the whole concept of the original scout program instituted by BP was designed around a military operation where a small patrol of self-sufficient scouts were to infiltrate enemy territory, live off the land and return back to report what they saw. Today, those dynamics are pretty much absent in the program, but the terminology lingers on as if its a bad taste in their mouths. The marketing to correct this would be detrimental to the program. Stosh

If one gets hungry enough, spring peepers start looking good. A little salt, a little black pepper (sp?), a bit of lemon thyme, a dash of garlic, a little drawn butter on the side? ... they might not be so bad. I have had people tell me that chicken tastes like spring peepers. Up in Minnesota I even saw a recipe for mosquito cookies. Everyone expects our scouts to try new things... well? Stosh

I saw that too. How many peepers in a cup? Stosh

Blindfolded? Heck, try after dark, in the rain. It adds a whole new expediency dynamic to the mix. Stosh

I wrote that to be funny, but I'm finding out that a lot of troops "cook" in this manner. It's rather unfortunate to miss out on such a great opportunity for teaching self-sufficiency to boys. Whereas many of my boys survive on "food" for the weekend, I simply enjoy myself with great food. Nothing better in the morning than any-berry pancakes. Pick them during the day, mix just enough pancake mix to hold them together and fry away! In the late fall, the belt ax is necessary to break open the black walnuts. You don't need many, with the strength of their favor over English walnuts, they add a great deal to the pancakes. With a ton of stuff out there in the woods to eat, it's a shame most boys take a pass on the freebie stuff readily available. Just remember, the chuckwagons of the cattle drive era didn't have boxes of Mac & Cheese on them. Stosh

Totally agree! A scout is thrifty, he pays his own way. Then there's the troop fund raising that covers the costs of the program and equipment, not supplemental funding of any scout's personal responsibility.

What often happens is boys eat better on an outing than they would have at home. There's a lot of parents out there that can't really cook, the just heat up highly processed foods like frozen entrees and pizzas. Once the kids begin to find out what real food is, it's kinda fun to watch as they learn. I still prefer to cook on an open campfire instead of a gas stove. I can do that at home. I learned my outdoor camp cooking over the course of many years, and I have had several offers over the years to go fishing in Canada for free because the guys want me to go along to cook! Pan fried walleye on an open campfire, cornmeal bread from the Dutch oven, and baked beans... Yep, best meal ever. Stosh

I'm sure he did just fine. Just make sure he doesn't do too well, then he'll end up GrubMaster forever! Stosh

If the older boys were not happy about food being late, they should have pitched in and helped out. If they were not happy about not enough food, the older boys should have better trained the younger boys on menu prep. If the older boys were not happy, they should be making efforts to solve their problems, not taking it out on the younger boys. If your son is stressed about having to prep a meal for the patrol, he is not having fun and there's something wrong with the program. It's about time the PL stops whining and starts working. Breakfast: I boiled some water, here's your two oatmeal packet and the hot chocolate is on the table. Lunch: You all can have 4 slices of bread. Peanut butter and jelly are on the table. Supper: We're having stew tonight, I like onions so I put plenty in, one scoop or two? Evening snack: I do meals, not soirees, the popcorn popper is in the trailer, knock yourself out. A couple of days like that and the PL will be forced to do his job better. Whenever my boys complain about something, that's their way of volunteering to do it correctly next time. Stosh

This means the accounts the units have at the scout office/store are all illegally co-mingled? I don't see how it is any different between council and unit as it would be for unit and scout. Stosh

It is VERY rare that when a homesick boy gets his hands on his buddy's cell phone his days in scouting are limited if existent at all. I've seen it happen far too many times. Personally I like being were there is no coverage to worry about. My ASM carries a cell phone for emergency purposes, but I don't want anyone calling me when I'm out in the woods. The reason I go there is to get away from such things. Stosh

While money put into an ISA by the scout is not a problem, putting troop funds into the account is unless one is willing to issue 1099's. KDD has the right idea. A lot of financial transactions can be simplified without having to write checks and go to the bank, etc. Co-mingling accounts is something the committee treasure keeps books from happening. Yes, the SM can have an account as well to handle such things as KDD says. The use of a debit card/pay pal, etc. can be a bit tricky in that the transaction can be done by one person. With a check and two signatures, there is a level of security involved that protects the treasurer and anyone else handling money within the troop. If one wishes to recognize the top earners in the troop, nice prizes less than $100 can be used as incentive for the scouts. There is no financial paper trail for the boy and it is written off as the troop's expense for awards. Just remember, the aggregate amount of money put into the scouts' ISA is taxable income for the scout. If he is declared a dependent on the parent's return, that aggregate amount needs to be shown as income. I believe I read somewhere until the minor is 14 years of age, the money he/she receives as earned or unearned income is legally the parents'. Stosh

What's wrong with a $5 metal mess kit? That's all I have ever used! Cut plastic harbors food contamination and so I always tell my boys to go out and get the cheapest metal aluminum mess kit on the market. Etch your name on it along with your cheap silverware and you're good to go. If you need a kosher setup, buy two and don't worry about it. One also has to remember that kosher also applies to cleanup. If one has meat and gravy for dinner, the kosher items have to be washed separately from the rest of the utensils and even separately from each other. Adjust, it's not a big deal. If a boy forgets his mess kit, there's usually enough in one kit to serve up two boys. I have seen three boys use one mess kit. One uses the fry pan for a plate, another uses the plate and the third uses the bucket. One boy uses the spoon, another a fork and the third eats with the handle of the knife. Learn to share. I have spent many an outing cooking and eating out of nothing more than a large tin cup and spoon. It's possible. As SM there have been lots of times I've ended up with nothing more than the cup and spoon because I have had to share with those boys who forgot their mess kits. Patrol of 8 boys needs 3 mess kits (9 "plates" with fry pan, plate, bowl options) and 4 sets of silverware (either a spoon or fork) to make it go. Also, there's is no garbage to throw away as with disposable items. LNT and quit hauling out huge bags of garbage at the end of an event. Stosh And by the way, one can't cook with a plastic mess kit, but they can with the el cheapo aluminum one.

It may be silly, but it's all-above-board legal. As far as the pants, if the committee doesn't want to put $$'s into their troop account for the boy to draw on, they simply take it out of his account and cut him a check and deduct it out of his ISA when he turns in his receipt for the pants. Not a big deal. It does however, cut down on the hassle of the scouts having to write out individual checks for every scout activity they wish to participate in and by checking with the treasurer they know how much money they have at any given time in their account. The silly part comes in when it is explicitly stated that the money the individual boys raise and put into their accounts is THEIR money. If the troop does a fund raiser, the money all goes into the TROOP account. If the troop wishes to subsidize an activity, they can do that without identifying any particular individual in the process. $XXX goes to camp this year to cut the cost of the scouts going. Sure, that benefits scouts, but as part of the program, it is not "income" for the scouts and no 1099 is needed. Basically if the scouts don't want to do fund raising and they don't fill up their accounts on their own, their parents are going to have to foot the bill anyway. A parent that pays $25 a month to their scout's ISA will in fact over the course of the year pay for their boy's camp fees. That way they don't get hit with a big payment every spring. This is why I believe that "dues" can and should go into ISA's. It accumulates for the boy and if he skips camp this summer, it will continue to accumulate until he draws it all out when he's done with scouting. It's all up to the scout on how he wishes to handle HIS money. A scout is THRIFTY and should know how the financial process of scouting is run. I have seen too many SM's tell a scout he can't go on an activity because his dues aren't paid up. As long as he pays for the activity, who cares! If he doesn't pay and doesn't have funds in his ISA, then he doesn't go because he hasn't paid for the opportunity, but it's HIS decision, not the SM's. He didn't pay dues, and it's rechartering time? Take it out of his account or have him cut a check. This isn't Wall Street finance, but it does keep a scout aware of his financial obligations. If younger brother to a scouter needs a few bucks for an event, older brother can finance it out of his account as well. If there are extenuating circumstances that are unique to outside factors as mentioned by Scouter99, just explain how the process works and let the scouts work it out on their own. It's all part of the problem solving process of leadership development. Basically put, a Scout is "theoretically" supposed to be honest. However, when a troop takes in money under certain precepts and then does something else with it, then it is nothing more than money-laundering. Take that to the next level, Mom and Dad make a donation to the troop to "cover" the scout's Philmont trek, take a tax-deduction on it because of the CO and then the boy's expenses are paid out of his pseudo ISA, is flat out dishonest. Unfortunately this goes on all the time when fundraising moneys meant for the troop are divvied up amongst the participants. One is going to have a difficult time justifying such actions to the IRS and any honest scouter. Stosh Oh, by the way, I have never heard of Tom, Dick and Harry selling popcorn, wreaths, or doing a fundraiser. But I have often hear that Troop XXX or Pack YYY is selling popcorn. It is not an individual transaction, it is a transaction between a unit and a donor facilitated by scouts, scouters and probably a few parents as well. BUT, they are all sending the message that they are raising money for the unit.

After 40 years of camping with kids, I may be able to sleep through a major thunder storm at home, but I'm wide awake at any sniffle or zipper pull during the night. It's an art form perfected after many years. Stosh

Privacy? What's what a sleeping bag is for! One can also rig the poncho to drop corners to form a pup-tent configuration and have all the privacy one wants and also cuts down on the weather coming in as well. One learns to rig ponchos rather quickly when the need arises. I like the poncho vs. tarp any day because I rarely need to sleep in my poncho. Stosh

Mosquito netting is great even without a tent. Not only that, it's lighter than a nylon tent and can compress down to quite a small package, about the size of a water bottle. A poncho, netting and turned over canoe make quite a nice sleeping arrangement. Stosh

A scout goes over to his neighbor and says he's earning money to go to Boy Scout Camp, can he rake the yard for $20? The neighbor says okay. The neighbor is fully aware of the fact the money is going to go to the scout to pay for BSA camp. It's a transaction between the neighbor and the scout. Scout rakes yard, collects $20 and puts it in his ISA with the troop. It's his money, he can do with it what he wants. He does this 10 times and he has $200 in his account. The troop decides to pay the $50 deposit for ALL scouts going to camp and expects the balance to be paid for by the scouts. No problem, the scout simply says take it out of my account. The operative word here is MY account. End of discussion. So the scout does it again 10 times and now he has $200 in his ISA. He needs a new pair of uniform pants for summer camp. He tells the committee treasurer to put $X in the council account so he can go buy pants. Now he needs $20 to go to a movie with his buddies. He asks for $20 to be issued from his account. Treasurer writes a check, End of discussion. Mom and Dad see he's doing well in scouts and so they put $200 into his account. (no tax deduction, just a deposit into the scout's account.) Grandma and Grandpa also toss in $100. (same thing, no tax deduction). None of this money belongs to the CO and the CO has no say so in how it is spent. The Committee has no say so in how it is spent, and the SM has no say so in how it is spent. It always has been and always will be the scout's money. When the scout leaves scouting or ages out, he takes the money with him. His ISA is nothing more than using a section of the troop's bank account to store his money so that when it is needed, the treasurer can simply transfer the money from the scout's section of the account to the troop's section of the account and no money has to exchange hands. No IRS involvement/concern is part of this process. No money is raised for this account as a troop activity. No money transfers from troop activity into a scout's ISA ever! If it does, it needs to be identified as income and a 1099 needs to be issued from the CO. The only person authorizing income and expense of the account is the scout himself. If the troop wishes to pay the $50 deposit for all scouts going to summer camp, they simply write a check to the camp. It's a transaction between the troop and camp and has nothing to do with any individual scout. When the funds for the rest of the camp are due it either comes from the scout's account or he writes a check to the troop to pay the camp or pays the camp directly. Stosh

A lot of what happens between a SM and scout depends on the scout, his state of mind, and what he's up to at the moment. While I didn't call a scout a Paper Scout, I did call one boy a slug. He was a bully, he was the reason why the troop was failing, his father was the SM and needed to step down. I took over and started reorganizing the troop. The boy resented me being his SM over his father and refused to do any thing to help out. We had a couple of situations where he didn't even try stepping up. I called him a slug and he walked out of the meeting. His dad was present at the meeting. The next week the boy was back doing the same thing. I did it again and out he went. The third time he confronted me and said he didn't appreciate the name calling. I asked him what as slug was and he said it was a stupid, slimy insect. No, I said, it is shortened word for sluggard, someone who's too lazy to look the word up in the dictionary. From that point on, the lights went on. He got Eagle, the correct way, was the scout speaker at the Golden Eagle banquet for the council and after school trained to be a SM, took Woodbadge, went on to the Air Force and within 6 months of graduating basic training was crew chief. What could have been a really bad situation turned out very well and I wear his Eagle mentor pin with pride. While I wouldn't recommend that as an option for an inexperienced SM, I have worked with youth for 40+ years and have a sense about what motivates them at any given moment. It's not something one learns in a book. The process can backfire just as easily with the scout that refuses to step up and relies on mom and dad to fight his fights for him. I have had that happen to me as well. When everyone else is stepping up and doing some great things, and little Johnny is getting left behind in the dust, his only recourse is mom and dad. There are those who truly are Paper/Parlor Scouts and nothing is going to budge them. Stosh

I don't think the issue here is the size of the problem. A few dollars here and there is "no big deal". That message, however, concerns me. Are we saying that white lies and petty shoplifting are okay, but perjury and grand theft aren't? How big does the issue have to be before it's no longer okay? How far do we push the issue before the IRS notices? We're golden until then? So then what is it we're teaching our boys? IF I were ever to consider an ISA in my troop, it would be set up that a scout could make personal contributions to his account out of his own pocket. If he paid dues, that could go in there too. The line in the sand would be the source of the money for the account. Is it truly the scout's own money, or is it a "cut" of the take on money given to the troop by people who felt they were supporting the troop and not the individuals within it specifically. When the boy leaves or ages out, it was always his money, held in reserve for him at his own discretion, including giving to another needy scout, and when he leaves. He either takes it with him or makes a donation of the account to the troop as a tax deduction. He could also give to another scout, but without the tax deductability. After all, it's truly his money. The reason why it would be held in a "scout" account instead of a bank is for the ease of payment on scouting activities. I need $25 for the campout? Take it out of my account, rather than him having to write a check to cover it out of his bank account. It's kinda like the council office holding individual troop accounts to make payments on items purchased in the council. That clear cut message of whose money is where is the kind of message I am willing to put forth for my scouts. Stosh

The point being, if a scout is respectful of others and their religions and he himself operates out of some beneficial societal moral code, who are we to judge whether or not that "qualifies" as being a "correct" religion. If he's a Pantheist and sees "god" in all of nature and treats nature in a kind, loving way, why would we think he isn't doing his duty to god? Too many out there who seem to think that the spiritual aspects of a person's life has to be a specifically defined religion. That's not what being Reverent is all about. If a SM is dictating that his scouts have to have a defined religion to qualify for membership in scouting, then that scout has the right to dictate to the SM that he live to the fullest extent of his religion as well. Good luck with that. Being religious and being reverent are two different animals. Being religious/spiritual is for one's own benefit, being reverent is for other's benefit. Those that keep threads like this going on for page after page have a difficult time distinguishing between the two. Stosh