Stosh

I'm thinking it might be a good time for the SM to "step down for personal reasons" so he can get his ducks in a row as you have indicated. This will allow him to not have to disclose any totally damaging consequences and after a period of personal rehab could possibly come back in an ASM role to see how things work out. Poor choices on his part, but no real damage done so some time to work things through would be a good thing. He may fare better in the ASM position in that a lot of the stress is on someone else's plate. This is something your COR needs to be in on and they may have some concerns that go beyond what the committee is doing. If the COR isn't particularly concerned about how the committee is handling it, then keep doing what your doing but keep him in the loop. If the COR is concerned, he may pull the plug on this guy anyway and then the whole thing simply goes away. If you have an American Legion CO, they might cut this guy a bit of slack whereas a church CO might not. It's their unit, their decision. Stosh

Funny you should mention that. I don't carry my plexiglass while camping, but I did use my signal mirror last week to put my camp patch on my shirt pocket. Stosh

Packsaddle, you think I'm kidding with that remark? That's the line my mother gave me when I went off to summer camp for the first time. If you knew my mother, it could have been very much true, I never tested the waters to find out. My line is: "So, your're homesick? So am I. I'm so sick of home, I could spend my whole summer out here." Stosh

Some camps have divided their areas into Cub and Boy Scouts. More facilities for the Cubs obviously. But they did not share anything other than camp staff, maintenance and admin areas. The camp I just went to also does the same thing as well as another camp in the area that I have attended in the past. Our Council camp just put in a new dining hall a few years back and are still "working" on it. Really wasn't anything wrong with the old dining hall, just not as glamorous as the new one. However, with the drop in campers since then, they are now going to offer campsite patrol cooking for the first time in many years as "something new". Now there's a marketing strategy. Put up the big bucks for a new mess hall and then go back to patrol cooking because no one showed up to oooh and ahhhh the new dining hall. It's kind of a nice camp, but they're always a day late and a dollar short with everything they do. They put in a nice training center with flushies, showers, kitchen, classrooms, fireplace and no place to sleep. In the winter they throw out mattresses on the floor for winter camping. The horses are gone, that used to be a big draw for the boys. Waterfront has been replaced with a rather small pool. 30 years ago it was still a nice camp. Our boys no longer want to go there and it's only a 30 minute drive to get there. And one last comment.... The Webelos cross-over boys said that with all the Cub day camps there, they were bored with it and they wanted to go someplace different now that they were in Boy Scouts. So for the less venturous units they can put in 5 years of Cubs and 7 years of Boys all in the same camp! Now that will really sell on the troop level where 3 years in a row is boring enough. Stosh

The furthest I have gone to get to summer camp is: 16 hr drive, 1000+ miles (one way). Every few years, it's worth it. I have no idea how many great camps we drove by to get there either. Wasn't my pick, but the boys loved it and that's all that counts. Stosh

Welcome! I've been around for 40+ years, don't use PLC's and my boys oversee troop meetings.... Do you own a coffee mug? If not, get one. Stosh

Ditto on what KDD said, with the hundreds of thousands going through Philmont, BWCA and Sea Base each year, I seriously doubt whether they have enough storm shelters for everyone. Health Lodge could be a room in the Admin Building and Commissary in one end of the Maintenance Building. Because of it's logistics, the Admin, Health, Commissary and Maintenance could be all put into one big Admin Barn for that matter. I also seem to remember that the deaths that occurred at Sioux City, were the result of the large fireplace in the mess hall falling on the boys. A large mess hall with open expansive roof would be the last place I would want to be in a storm anyway. I'll take my chances in a ditch over that any day. Stosh

The admin building and maintenance should be the only buildings at a scout camp. Everything else detracts from the intent of camp. Stosh

I let my boys decide by patrol what they wish to do. If they have a bad experience they tend to research other camps and if the grass isn't a whole lot different then they keep researching and tying new camps. My new troop wanted a primitive camp, I suggested they get on the internet and check out the one I knew about. They liked it, they voted this summer to go back next summer. Who knows what they will decide next year. So far with the variety offered, the older boys never seem to get bored with the change of scenery occasionally. They can always decide to go someplace else at any time. And yes, the boys have picked two different camps during the summer. It's no more difficult to organize than a summer camp and high adventure trip during the same summer. Stosh

Too often we hear of the conflict between what some adult says the POR means and what some scout thinks it means. Well, journaling pretty much validates a person's efforts towards the requirement. Does the SM really know what the PL does when he's not around? Does the SM know what the QM is doing when he's not looking? How much contact does the TG have with the NSP? How much prep time does the Instructor put in getting things ready for a teaching preso he's working on? Document it! This also applies for multiple POR's being done by a single scout. Maybe he does a nice preso this week for the NSP (Instructor) and next campout does the bugling for the weekend (Bugler). Then he does a couple of weeks as Den Chief, but the Cub Scouts don't meet for the summer so he's screwed. So he organizes and inventories the troop trailer for the QM who's not doing his job instead. Then he takes the flier for the camporee and starts getting the PL's ready for it (SPL), collects the fees and works with the Grubmasters to pay for the food (Scribe/Treasurer). ETC ETC ETC. I'm willing to pull 26 weeks together (not necessarily sequential) to fulfill 6 months of work for POR requirements. It make take him 9 months to put together 26 weeks of work in a half dozen positions, but if he journals it and keeps track of it, shouldn't he get credit for it? And even if it's a boy who didn't get elected/assigned a POR for advancement, shouldn't he still get credit for all his work even if he doesn't wear a POR patch? Just compare such a boy against an ASPL who doesn't do a thing for 6 months but gets POR credit anyway, or the Bugler who plays reveille and taps at two camporees and maybe summer camp. Total of 30 minute's total worth of work at best, but gets POR credit anyway. Instructions? "Journal your POR work and come into the SMC and impress me with what you've done." If it's good enough to convince me it surely will convince a BOR. Do I have to pull out my attendance book? Do I have to measure the minutia of his effort? What about the time I can't watch him? Is he goofing off or working his butt off? Such subject measurements can be corrected by simple journal entries showing dates, time and effort recorded. If it adds up to 26 weeks of effort, we're done and will validate more effort than most POR measurement in most troops today. CC at the BOR: "So, Johnnie, I notice you have no POR patch on your shirt but you're here for your BOR. What's up with that? Johnnie: "Let me show you what I've been up to for the past 26 weeks and you can decide whether it's enough to cover the requirement." Worse case scenario, just call it a 26 week special project assigned by the SM. I have had a number of boys do this when they don't get elected/selected for a POR and have shown more initiative and work than most of the boys with patches. I even had one Eagle candidate who screwed up big time that needed my recommendation. I gave him 26 weeks and no patches to prove to me he was worthy of Eagle. He did, it was really quite impressive. Surprised even me. Stosh

Sorry I'm not going to take the bait, but I'm glad you have brilliant, very mature natural leaders who have zero desire for working on MB's. MB's will hold them back from advancing beyond FC, but I truly hope they continue to deepen their understanding of responsibility, leadership, service and Scout Spirit, without recognition as well. Stosh

I suggest to the boy that for 6 months POR he journal 26 weeks of what he did to fulfill that position. Every week needs a journal entry of his work. If he did not attend a meeting, he might have gotten his input communicated to the meeting anyway, i.e. a written PL report, a written Treasurer's report, etc. If he missed an outing, and an assistant took over for him, did he pass on instructions to his assistant and did he make sure the others who rely on him were helped and ready to go? If he is working behind the scenes he needs to get credit for it. On the other hand if any one of the 26 weeks is totally blank and he did Jack squat that week, then he's a week short on his requirement. There's no % necessary, just proof of involvement and fulfillment of his responsibilities. Try this with your Historian or Librarian some time and see what you get and then compare it with your PL's and see who really deserves advancement. I have seen APL's do more work than Librarians and get no credit where the librarians get rank credit. That will take the wind out of any boy's sails in a very short period of time. Stosh

By the time I stitch-ripped off the pocket I could have the new patch on. Yes, over the years I stitched pockets shut, as well as sleeves. My solution was a piece of plexiglass cut to the size of the pocket. Slip that into the pocket before sewing, hold patch in the right position, pin away, one can't poke all the way through and then start sewing. The plexiglass makes a nice hard working surface and there is no way a stitch can go through and pick up more than the outside layer of cloth. Another piece a bit bigger works well on the sleeve. For those who think I'm a sewing whiz, think again. I have sewn not only my pockets shut as well as my sleeves, but I have also sewn the whole thing to my pants as well. The plexiglass has solved all of those problems for me. Stosh

But with everyone on this forum having differing opinions, will BSA ever come up with a uniform Uniform Police Badge? Is it worn on the official uniform or on civilian clothes? Will China be able to make them in mass quantities and keep up with the demand? Who can take it away if another Uniform Police Badge person realizes someone is wearing it with blue jeans? Does a knot come with it? Can atheists and gays wear it? Sounds like a straw-man argument on a slippery slope to me. Stosh

I only worry about how good my boys look. I don't worry about someone else's problems. My four boys were in full uniform all week except the PL who washed his uniform on Wednesday and wore a scout t-shirt on Thursday while it dried. Otherwise they could wear scout t-shirts while in the camp site. None of them commented about having to wear the uniform all the time after we got there. They were some minor grumblings prior to our trip, but nothing after we got in the cars to head out. Whereas not too many people comment about how poor a uniform looks, my boys have often gotten kudos for looking good in full uniforms. Once again we were the only full field uniformed troop at camp. Staff noticed and said something. That went a long way to keeping the uniforms on and surprisingly clean. I had someone question my uniform because I wore a 1950/60's green shirt with 50's/60's insignia on it. Many commented that they had never see it before and were just interested in looking closer. Stosh

Just got back from camp. All 4 boys Webelos cross-overs this year. (brand new troop) Had camp's canvas wall tents. Had one shakedown weekend camping prior to summer camp. 2 bed wetters. 2 homesick 1 1/2 hours from home. Parents of homesick boy #1 came up Friday and took him home just before the final campfire. No big deal, he'll still do fine. Parents have more problems than the kids. Parents of homesick boy #2 came up Friday and boy told them he wanted to stay for the campfire and ride home with the others. I guess the homesick treatment worked. All four boys unanimously voted to come back to same camp, same week, and same campsite next year. Nothing ever runs smoothly. Every leader should be prepared for things they never would have expected. If one thinks talking a boy down from homesickness is difficult, try talking them into Depends at night for sleeping. Stosh

I kinda follow the Eagle Project idea of not being so self-serving and that service hours should be for non-BSA programs. If OA is cleaning up council camp, probably not, if they are doing a project in a state park, then it would be okay to count. Getting advancement credit for service projects is a bit self-serving in and of itself without making it worse by BSA being served. It's kinda like getting paid for chores one should be doing for family anyway. However if the elderly lady next door needs her walk shoveled for the winter, I'd gladly pay my son to do it. Nothing in the fine print says I have to do it one way or the other, but I'd like my boys to learn the lesson of what a service project really should be and if that be based on my personal standards, then so be it. Their parents might teach them something else and their school something even different than mine or the parents. That's a good thing to get different perspectives on what Servant Leadership means to the people being led. Stosh

New troop, new Webelos boys, and summer camp. Had one of the 4 boys exactly as described. I ignored the whole thing. We had the two adults and had YPT covered and the boys could leave him behind if they chose to. They never did. They all saw to it he was fed, clothed at flags and off to MB classes ever morning. I have no idea how they did it, but whatever it was did not evoke any loud yelling, screams from the boy and no one left any marks. I don't plan on ever asking either. By the way the boy earned 3 of the 5 MB's and had two partials that shouldn't be to difficult to follow up on. Out of the 4 he was the only one to complete Wilderness Survival MB. The 11 year old PL, however, did have some experience prior to coming into Boy Scout as having worked with disabled youth in special day camps set up by other programs. That might have been part of the solution, I don't know. Stosh

My mentor pins are on my uniform left pocket flap, my WB patrol patch on my right sleeve as well as the old red/black/white patrol flag on my walking stick. Every time I have been questioned on it, I tell the person to go and get in full uniform, come back and then we'll discuss it. No one has ever taken me up on it. If anyone ever does, the BSA protocol says the leaders do not need uniforms any more than the kids. That means I'll be wearing a non-BSA tan shirt, non-BSA green pants and two mentor pins on the pocket. Nothing else on the shirt is worth keeping. Stosh

Very, very slight possibility. The development of ranking skills to help and assist the younger boys goes hand-in-hand with the ability to actually be able to help them. When the most respected scout who is only FC says, to a younger boy, "don't do as I do, do as I say," he begins to sound too much like an adult practicing hypocrisy. I don't see a FC scout being the most respected unless he's the oldest in the troop and has not yet had an opportunity to work on Star. That of course would put him in the very, very slight possibility category to meet the criteria of your question. However, once other scouts surpass him in rank and maturity, the boy's respect will undoubtedly decline as the others look to the more motivated scouts for inspiration. I would love to meet and shake the hand of the 17 year old scout that has 60 years of camping experience, 36+ of them as a registered scout, who is trained and served at the Cub Scout level (6 years), the Boy Scout level (23 years and the Exploring (2 years)/Venturing (16 years) level, who has trained other in the outdoor skills of Cub Scout (Webelos Overnight, 6 years) and Boy Scout, SM Fundamentals as SM 2 years) levels and who has earned his Commissioner's Key helping other units get the most of out the BSA program, who is clearly better at this scouting stuff than me. Too much paperwork for Doctorate of Scouting, so I'm only at the Master's level. They quit asking me to be on WB staff because I'm pre-2000 trained. (for me that's a good thing)