Stosh

That is if one believes the ultimate expression of life is measured in good and evil. There are other measurements of course. Stosh

You should... I'm your Faaatherr! Stosh

"It was well meant, but it is bad bad change. Even worse, it's a bad marketing move as our nation moves to spiritual but most are not affiliated with a church. So now, you want them to practice even though they are not affiliated with a church." What did Baden-Powell know that we don't? Stosh

I thought his "name" was quite cleaver. Elemeno P ( L-M-N-O-P ) I was just seeing if he/she could figure out my kid's name. Stosh

Maybe the librarians thought this might be a porn site and blocked it? Boy Scouts used to pride themselves in their stalking skills. Maybe the librarian has a valid reason. Stosh

Is it right to sell your soul to the devil to save someone else's life? Interesting problem to have. Stosh

There's nothing wrong with adults giving boys a ride to the grocery store when they ask for one. There's nothing wrong with boys asking for help cooking a new recipe. There's nothing wrong with the boys asking for help on anything for that matter. As a matter of fact all patrol members are taught that when they get into a tight spot, they have their PL and APL there to ask for help from. If the PL/APL are stumped with an answer, they have the SPL/ASPL. If they are stumped as well, then the SPL asks for assistance from the SM. The way I set up my understanding of the troop for the boys is: PL is the highest authority in the troop/patrol. Always go to him first for any help you may need. He can instruct you, guide you, mentor you, whatever it is, that's what he's there for. If the PL needs help beyond his capabilities, i.e. Little Johnny didn't come back to camp and is out somewhere by himself, he has the SPL to turn to, SPL can call in other PL's and organize a search party for Little Johnny. If it's a major issue that the SPL is having difficulties with, one of the boys showed up with a bazooka at summer camp. Okay, now it's time to talk with the SM for some help. Notice that regardless of the position of leadership any of these boys hold, they are all expected to HELP the next boy UP the chain of authority. PL at the top, he "takes care of his boys". They're the ones to be benefiting from the program. He helps his boys get the most out of Scouting. Then there's the SPL. He HELPS the PL's be successful. And of course when asked for help, it's the SM/ASM step in and help/mentor/suggest to the SPL. Carrying it further. Isn't idealistic to have the CC HELPING the SM be successful and the Committee HELPING the CC be successful? This is why I turn my org chart upside down and the boys figure it out VERY quickly. This is why I had my PL (11 year old scout) bring one of his buddies back in the middle of the night at summer camp from Wilderness Survival because the buddy was homesick. I was caught between a rock and a hard spot. This homesick boy (11 year old boy) would be all by himself in camp with the two adults. The PL said, he came back knowing he would miss out on getting the Wilderness Survival MB, but it was okay because he had to take care of his boys. The two boys went off to the tent and that was the end of the discussion and problem. I have run a lot of 16 year old boys through scouting that would never do that for a buddy because they know nothing about real leadership and "helping other people at all times." Helping other people at all times? Isn't that the organizational structure I just described? Stosh

Sounds like the UK has a more appropriate name for that age group. Stosh

The nice thing about being a Scouter is one never ages out. Too bad there are boys out there that don't have that same outlook. I had one boy in my troop that aged out during his senior year of high school. He did earn his Eagle. He then took SM leader training and WB that year and when he graduated he was 19 years old and had all the training for whatever came next. Recently he started dating a nice gal and I gave him the hassle of her not being an Eagle scout. He said he didn't worry about that, her father and 3 older brothers were all Eagles and she was president of her Venturing Crew working on whatever awards they had to offer. I wonder if they ever had kids they'd be born with a fleur-de-lis birthmark. By the way,.... he thought NYLT was a total waste of time and energy, but he did love the GBB material. Stosh

Welcome to the dark side.... Stosh

One of the "75 Volunteers" mentioned in the article was at this preso and made it clear that all the changes have yet to be "locked down". Which ones he was referring to as still "up in the air" he did not identify. There are pilot councils still working on projects that will yet determine the final outcome and what they are currently piloting may or may not be part of the final program. The "preso" given was the PDF file RichardB linked us to, but it also included the "latest and greatest updates" from National and the caveat that nothing is chiseled in stone as of yet. Sounds a bit line a BSA Rosanne Rosanadana routine to me. Stosh

New Scout motto: Better living through chemicals. Stosh

On the other hand my troops seem to retain the older boys and loose a lot of younger boys. Once they join up and figure out they have to actually learn something and be responsible for something, they lose interest very quickly. The boys that stay tend to stay for the long haul and have a great time. My patrols seem to gravitate towards same or very close aged boys. I have no say so in who's in what patrol. Stosh By the way, my older boys tend to be more adventurous and tend to challenge themselves with nice outings. They do step up and mentor the younger boys if asked. PORs are rather irrelevant. If the young boys need some equipment, they know who to talk to, they don't need to run around and see who's got what patch on their shirt. A lot of my "officers" are there by default and step up as the occasion arises and does what is necessary to take care of others.

A 18-20 year old doing something inappropriate with a 14-18 year old is a felony that they will need to register for annually for the rest of their lives, let a lone the PR mess it would cause for the BSA. Stosh

Elemeno is an interesting name. My kid is Elefino. Stosh

Just run through the training again, it's not that big of a deal and he/she should have the answers pretty fresh in their mind. I would venture to say that this person might have exited out of program a click or two early and it didn't register as completed. In that case they couldn't get back to the certificate anyway. Maybe they have a partial completion and if they long back on it might pick up where they left off the last time. It's been a while since I took the training so I don't remember right off hand the details of the program. Stosh

I would be willing to bet my money on merging councils has zero impact on membership in the units. Why would it make any difference to a Boy Scout unit to have to drive an additional 20 miles to get to some council office? It may have an impact on the adult leadership and all of their meetings, but that doesn't affect membership in the boys. Stosh

If that be the case, then what's the sense of having boy-led or patrol-method? Everyone just follows along with what the all-knowing wise sage SM tells them to do. No leadership required, just follow his directions so that mom and dad don't get upset. Don't worry about a thing, the SM has it covered. He has a whole cadre of ASM's that will quickly respond to your every whim and want and you'll be safe and sound throughout this little activity. Don't play with fire unless an ASM is present at all times. Keep away from the axe yard unless an adult is present. Mr. ASM#4 will be doing the cooking tonight because we don't want anyone to get sick. I know some of you older boys would like to go off and do something special by yourself, but at least two adults have to be there to keep you safe at the state park campground. Oh Little Johnny didn't pack any smores? Not to worry, Mr. ASM#17 has the troop credit card and will run down to the local convenience store and take care of that. Seriously? Where's the adventure in all of that. We promised the boys a lot more than Webelos III, or in this case Tiger Cubs VI. Sorry, but if I inconvenience anyone, that's too bad, if I see symptoms of hypoglycemia, diabetic coma or insulin shock, I'll step in, but I'll know that before we leave because I will have done my due diligence by knowing my boys and what they can and can't do safely. Growing up isn't always a pleasant experience, but they need to start learning sometime and the sooner the better. In this situation where the GM forgot the food, if I was adhering to a health and welfare concern, my first and most important priority is to remove the GM from the troop so that he would never again endanger the others in the troop. End of discussion, no appeal. zero tolerance for such an unsafe practice. He might as well have threatened his buddies with an axe. Apart from the sarcasm, there's an underlying bit of truth to much of what is posted. Maybe not to that extreme, but I'll guarantee everyone that there is some parent some place quietly nodding their head in full agreement with me. I have been an adult "chaperone" for youth groups for 40+ years and I have seen a ton of boys and girls grow up to be fine adults. Just this afternoon I had a Facebook conversation with a fella that reminisced about an event that happened in 1978. He remembered exactly what I was talking about after 30+ years. Yes I have had to address diabetic issues, I have had to deal with major bleeding from cuts, burns to the hands and arms, and done the crash course of epi pens long before they were legal for people to use on other people. I have been accused to being harsh, tough, uncompromising, and a whole lot of negative things by parents throughout my life, but never unsafe or dangerous to the health and welfare of the people in my charge. Just remember that if Little Johnny doesn't bring the food for the weekend, the easiest solution to the whole problem is to just turn around and go home, the activity is over. If some parent wants to step in and take over, more power to them. I guess I wouldn't want the responsibility of worry about their health and safety knowing I have older boys that can't remember to even bring food for the weekend. As for adults that are worried about whether their child is properly fed for the weekend, just sign up as ASM#17 and be in charge of the troop credit card. Stosh

Sometimes the answers one doesn't want to hear are the ones they should hear and at least mull them over in their heads for a while. Stosh

How many out there on allergy medication.... read the label on that stuff sometime. And how about the guy who got rapped upside the head with a cast iron fry pan by his wife for spending too much time in Scouting. Is he in any condition to drive? Stosh

Welcome! Stosh

A rose by any other name is still a rose..... If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... I'm with BD, it's the journey, not the destination that makes Scouting valuable. Stosh

And just how far will that fuzzy logic get one? No food... okay, no one's going to starve, but they will be uncomfortable for the weekend. Some food missing... okay how much is "some", no one's going to starve; but they will be uncomfortable for "some" part of the weekend. A bit of food missing.... okay, how much is "a bit". etc. So at what point does one call on the IH to remove the SM? One of the goals, at least in my book, is to teach the boys responsibility and make functional use of the positions of responsibility. If the SM is responsible, then what room is there left for the boys to be and learn responsibility? The SM is the ultimate person responsible, i.e. the ultimate safety net. All bucks stop at his desk and so the boys don't worry about it, it can never be their fault because they are not responsible in the long run, the SM is. Too many SM are out there that will not let go of responsibility and let the boys have a hand at it. They are the ones complaining about boys not fulfilling their POR's and mentoring the young boys in leadership skills that they never learned themselves. I personally have no sympathy for SM's that fall into this predicament. I don't run a program that way. Yes, I have been removed as SM for exactly what CalicoPenn is talking about. The CC informed me the reason I was asked to leave is because I expected "too much leadership from the boys". Guilty as charged! Since my removal, most of the boys have quit and the number of adults running the show out number the boys. Can we say Webelos III? The troop I was associated with before that had a SM who ran everything with an iron fist. He too, has been removed from the SM position. His WB and Silver Beaver didn't do him any good when it came to his troop. If one spends all their time worrying about where they fall on the fuzzy logic spectrum, they aren't going to have much time left over for the boys. Coddle or challenge the boys, it doesn't matter. The range of Eagle talent is reflective of how we as SM's have done or not done our job. Stosh