Stosh

Never could figure out what this "vision" thing is. BSA sets that up in the program. Maybe it has something to do with adult directives. Sure would like to know how this is being defined by the various members.

And we pick up speed on the slippery slope.... ALL DC's required to take YPT

For years now, the Mrs. and I take a day each week to road trip. Nothing planned, nothing schedule, nothing put down on paper. The only question in the morning is which way. The Mrs. says "South". We head south. We look for things to do along the way and stop and check them out. We've found many a jewel among county parks, we stay in them and State parks along the way. If it looks interesting and it's open, we stop. I liken this process to something many scouts haven't figured out as of yet. Just go! Go camping, anywhere! Bring along your fishing gear, whatever seems interesting. This planning down to the nth degree is good to begin with, but do your boys have a "Go bag?" I have one because of the nature of my other volunteering. When I say yes, I have 24 hours to be on a plane heading anywhere in the US for 2 weeks. I can do this because I have learned how to do it having spent many "trips" just going and doing whatever it takes to have fun. I can be ready in 5 minutes for a kayak trip anywhere within 60 miles of here. I can be ready in 10 minutes to head out camping. The car is already loaded to go fishing at the drop of a hat. If we want to go kiking, we can go in about 2 minutes. I have a Go Bag for every possible adventure there might be out there. It's called "Be Prepared." It is to this goal I work with my boys. By the time they are 16, they should have a fairly good idea what it takes to have a Go Bag ready for a day trip and an over-nighter. It's called having an adventure, and it's really a lot of fun. Alas, today's youth can't pull even the simplest of outings together without some sort of multiple day's planning, if not weeks at a scout table putting something together. It's unfortunate because if Dad wants to take his Mrs. and the kids on a picnic in the park, it's an all-day ordeal rather than an adventure. I learned this technique from my father. Sure, he had a small house trailer, but it only took a few minutes to hook it up and we were on the road to "someplace". If this is not the ultimate goal of Scouting, then please let me know what is. Independence, preparedness, spontaneity, adventure, companionship, leadership, all rolled up into one. Because of this I use my S->FC skills every week. They come in handy and can cover a multitude of sins along the way. My kids were bough up in this type of environment and are ready for anything that comes their way.

And this is a classic excuse for not having NSP's. Just like any other patrol in the patrol method, the adults that interfere will always destroy the intent of the program. An ASM is NOT part of the patrol method, nor should a SM "assign" him/her anymore than the SM assigns any other position in the troop. Do NOT use inappropriate behavior of the adults for an excuse to run down NSP's or any other patrol for that matter. I do not interfere in the operation of the NSP, nor the regular patrols, nor the HA (Venture) patrols. They sink or swim on the merits of the patrol method and it works. I find very few adults in my neck of the woods that really trust the patrol method and tend to meddle in the operation of the troop and then scratch their heads as to why things aren't working out very well for them. And that's the key, it's never "for them", it's for the boys. Let them run the show and trust them to do a better job than adult interfering.

Tuesday is Date Day with the Mrs. NOTHING is planned except what we want to do. Used to be just Tuesdays. This week Date Day started on Monday at noon. Hit two huge botanical gardens and an evening in a beautiful state park. Had a nice dinner at an old fashioned "supper club". How much planning was involved?...none. How much hassle with schedules?....none. Spent today cleaning up the camper so it'll be ready next Monday at noon. So, do I continue to fight the good fight with the BSA or just find a different trail out there? There'll be others out there that can pick up the slack. After 45+ years, I've paid my dues. My son quit scouting back in the mid 90's So the only thing holding me in the program was the program. The game changes, the rules change, but one doesn't need to play the game.

I use the layered age patrols. NSP - PL from either the new scouts or an older scout, TG, to assist, Instructors, older boys needing POR doing ad hoc teachings, so they get plenty of interaction with older scouts. Once they don't need the training wheels anymore they can do what they wish, go into regular patrol or join the older boys in High Adventure. Makes no never mind to me. Generally they like to stay together so they become just another regular patrol, generally of the same age because that's what their buddies are. These other patrols provide the leadership because they are the ones needing higher rank POR's. Once they get up around 14-15, then they are challenged tor HA, and focus their attention on that process along with Eagle projects. I like the ranked patrols because the new guys can focus on FC, the middle groupings of patrols (majority) help out with the new boys, and the older boys can focus on their interest, HA. If the ages, interests and friendships are spread out over multiple patrols, I found it difficult to keep the patrol intact for activities. Before that, I found that 1 or two boys from every patrol went on HA, leaving the rest of their patrol behind, going off with an ad hoc patrol for the HA event. Long term planning for HA took those boys out of their regular patrols on a regular basis. I got it to work, but not everyone is the same. I hear a lot about mixed patrols and it works for them. I have no problem with it. My approach works for me, the patrols stay intact and my boys like it. They are free to go to any patrol they get invited to and because of interest, age and friendships, they tend not to mix. I've had at least 1 venture patrol when I had older boys. They didn't call it that, but that's how they functioned.

Back in the '60's the movement was to desegregate the nation. We accomplished that. Separate but equal was banned as well, it was just lip service to those who wanted to keep the programs/social structures but not desegregate. Now the new code word for this resegregational movement is to have safe spaces for just certain individuals. The more we forget history, the more we are forced to relive it. When my daughters were young, I offered my services to the GS/USA, they said, "No". Not a problem. I don't need to butt in where I don't belong. It made no never mind to me or my daughters. One put in one year and the other went to Silver. I wasn't really all that fired up about yet another volunteering spot, but for my daughters, I offered. I couldn't handle the new GS/USA program. During their week of summer camp, there is a day set aside to go to the local mall, shop and get their hair and nails done. Not my cup of tea. The world has changed and will continue to change. What BP envisioned 100+ years ago is gone and will not come back until needed once more. I can wait.

Any assistant is the "right-hand" man to the leader. Yes, the title says "assistant", but what one's real job is to do anything and everything to make sure the leader is successful. When he/she is successful, so are the boys. As one who promotes the #1 leader is the program is the PL, for the life of me, I can't figure out why APL is not a POR. A good APL that functions, is a fantastic support person for the PL. It applies to the adult level support group as well. 99% of the problems in a patrol or troop is the lack of a functional assistants.

I like your YPT analogy, Col.

At least they are all "uniform". This hodge-podge of gym shorts, pajama bottoms, blue jeans, every kind of hat imaginable, isn't very uniform even with a tan shirt. The boys are most often taught that the shirt is enough so it gets wadded up in the backpack and dragged out flags untucked only to be jammed back in the school bag after closing flags. There is zero pride in that process no matter how much lipstick one decides is enough for the pig.

Hmmmm..... I wonder if we might be asking the wrong question. Was BOY Scouts meant to teach boys what to do to interact with the adult world male/female, or was it meant to build the leadership and character so that when situation arose, they would make carefully thought out moral decisions in life. With the feminization of the society since the late '60's, it is somewhat difficult to define the male role in the society of today. I'm thinking it closely relates to the old screen door on a submarine analogy. I'm sure the new gals coming in will be more than happy to clue the boys in on what that means. Parents, especially single moms, wanted strong male role models for their sons without fathers. Well, we offered them female SM's, then homosexual men, and now a co-ed environment. I'm thinking people aren't looking for the "strong male role models for their sons", in the BSA program anymore.

I walked away from the professional ministry because of the way the church changed. I walked away from my highest paying job because my blood pressure was 250 over 125. I walked away from the Venturing Crew after 13 years because others thought the could do better, it folded in 2 years. I walked away from reenacting after 20 years as well. Right now as I post this comment, I am camping in a beautiful State Park in a lake front site with the Mrs. Don't think for one second I can't make this my next adventure. I have other coed groups I work with, so going coed is not the issue. I have been involved in Scouting because it was unique to just boys as I remember as a kid. The program is changing, it is not what I signed up for. And yes, it is not a bunch of bluster and hot air. It is not a threat it appears to be time to focus on family camping with my family.

Just got word from our council top personnel, the decision to go all co-ed in "Boy" Scouts has been decided, but the official notice will not go out as yet. Local option, Eagle rank is still under discussion. I can see the end of the trail from here.

Anytime one is required to choose sides, it means the polarizing affects of politics is beginning to take it's toll. Once it gets out of hand, it never ends well. We scream and yell about what the Germans did to their citizen Jewish population. Is it any different than what we did with our Japanese population? or what we have done and continue to do to the Native Americans? Please explain the philosophical differences between concentration camps, internment camps and reservations..... Surely one's freedom is not really celebrated in those settings. If one thinks it puts a person in a bad situation to be on one side with a ton of people against you on the other. The only other place worse is the middle where no one likes you.

Hmmm.... some get the training, others don't, but the punishment is doled out equally??? That make sense.

We live in an era of extremism. We see it with Islamic push for power, with NK push for the world stage, and it's happening in our own country. Trying to find a moderate today is difficult at best. The media has given up on journalism and has gone the National Inquirer/People Magazine approach to sales. The more inflated the story, the more it will sell over the competition. I've seen it in the past, the riots of the 60's and the Vietnam War protest marches. This sort of thing will take time and a lot of people dying before everyone realizes the foolishness of their extreme actions. When one sees people physically injuring others because they had their feelings hurt, this country is in serious trouble and has been for a number of years now. It's just that it has gotten to the point where people die. In spite of all that, there are still the islands of hope that this article indicates. Just one scout was brave enough to take on the challenge. Sometimes that's all it takes. So, who in this day and age is the one that's going to step up?

This might be in prep for "family" programming change. DC's working with family cubs will need the training. Same for PL's who will have "family" in their patrol. We can't be having the kinds of incidents mentioned at Jambo happening in our Cub and Scout programs on a regular basis.

This is what my buddies and I did "back in the day". The adult scouters weren't impressed and attempted many times to deter the fun we were having. We always got parental permission and if the SM said it was okay we wore the uniform, if not, it was one less thing to pack. Eventually we tired of the constant hassling, and so we quit scouts altogether and found another organization more receptive to our kinds of adventures.

They must have missed the Citizenship MB requirement on innocent until proven guilty. Gotta say, some the the lessons being taught seem to be rather questionable. If it was that bad, 911 would have solved the issue and BSA wouldn't have egg on their face. This, behind the scenes, processing is really not a scoutlike activity. And by the way, where is the YPT training for youth located. I've looked and can't find it. I'm thinking it's kinda like the made up on the spot kinds of things that create myths and hard feelilngs. Bullying? Yep, he's out. Anything in the pamphlet in the front of the handbook? Yep, he's out. Aside from that what is there?

Boys and Girls Club of America predates the BSA by 50 years (1861) and has provide youth development and leadership opportunities under a federal charter just like the BSA. BGCA, however, as a non-profit also receives government subsidies for their program. 4-H predates the BSA by a few years (1902) and provides youth developmental and leadership opportunities in their early years through rural agriculture. They have now expanded their program into the urban suburban areas of the country. Their program is heavily supported by the USDA and the County Extension programs. They have now expanded their influence well into the suburban and urban areas of the country. YMCA was like the BSA started in England in 1844. It didn't take very long to jump the pond and entrenched itself in the US in 1851. Being a Christian mission, over the years it has been supported by multiple denominations. Yet in 1910 BSA grew in 50 years to one of the prestigious youth programs in the country. They were at the top of their game and then 1) either the world changed or 2) BSA changed.or 3) both changed. Did they hold on to the old ways too long or did they bail too soon? Will expansion of leadership among adults make a difference? Is the world changing too fast? Is the "outdoors" no longer relevant to today's society? Lots of questions..... and so far no answers forthcoming. Lots of guesses, but no answers. BSA's reputation is focused "out in the woods" doesn't bode well for a sudden change in course mid-stream. It gives a rather poor image of maybe a bit of desperation in light of recent decisions. Over the years I have lost boys to both these organizations as well as the YMCA program in the communities I have served in. The last one was within the past 2 years. I can't foresee any of these recent gyrations on the part of National really going to do anything to counter the current trend the BSA is on.

You are correct, but you are also missing my point. BSA is clueless how to deal with the kind of competition it is going to now face and has faced unsuccessfully. Whereas National touts moving into the 21st Century, they remain Luddites to the process. All these other youth programs DO show up with all their information front and center. BSA is trolling in uncharted waters with no bait on the line. No hook, either. ,, and no oars in the water either.

White crew neck T-shirt Necker ($2.00 to make). Blue jeans belt. With that being applied equally with the boys, they will look as much like scouts as the do with just a tan shirt with patches.

I would rather see the boys in street clothes. BSA does not require a uniform. That being the case, wear it correctly or don't wear it at all.

Outdoor Youth development program 18,200,000 hits. YMCA, 4-H, Soccer, government programs and nothing for BSA in the first 50 pages. Algorithms or not, Google is the #1 Search site and this is what internet people are seeing..... a total lack of BSA presence on the internet for searching unless they have made connections elsewhere and know what to search on. Outdoor Youth Leadership programs are pretty much well addressed on the internet without any BSA or GS/USA even on the horizon. Now I didn't cover all 18 million hits, but I'm seeing a trend here.

Slam "Leadership Programs for youth" into your Google search and it will kick back 130,000,000 results. I scrolled down 43 pages until I found ANY vague reference to BSA. NYLT Academy of LA had a website that if one were to look at the picture, one saw a scout uniform and the BSA logo was at the bottom of the page. http://nylt-leadershipacademy.org/leadership-academy/youth-program/ Of course I ran into a ton of leadership training programs before I got to this one on page 43. Campfire, 4-H, YMCA, Boy's and Girl's Club all had multiple references before the BSA, or should I say NYLT Academy I guess one needs to hide the branding in the acronym before it gets any internet visibility. I quit at page 50, that's about 400+ entries. The point being? This is the future competition faciing the BSA. I hope it's ready for it. The one hit I really liked was: http://cswag.org/They have a youth leadership program AND a GIRL's leadership program. Sadly they have no BOY's leadership program specific for them. Oh, by the way, summer camp for them is $2,000.00+ They have an online application if anyone here wants to jump on board.