Stosh

Those who don't learn from history...... simply re-write it so it's easier to remember (and on occasional more comfortable to remember). Stosh

I still use my Cub Scout coffee mug I got back in 1995 when I was a WDL. It's ceramic so it makes the rotation during home use. Stosh

With all the scout camps in Wisconsin from councils in 3 different states, I'm sure one can find a place to camp somewhere. Stosh

Where there is no danger, there is no adventure. [h=1]adventure[/h] Syllabification: ad·ven·ture Pronunciation: /adˈven(t)SHər , ədˈven(t)SHər / [h=2]Definition of adventure in English:[/h] [h=3]noun[/h] 1An unusual and exciting, typically hazardous, experience or activity: her recent adventures in Italy More example sentences Synonyms 1.1Daring and exciting activity calling for enterprise and enthusiasm: she traveled the world in search of adventure a sense of adventure More example sentences Synonyms 1.2 archaic A commercial speculation. Example sentences [h=3]verb[/h] [no object] dated Back to top 1Engage in hazardous and exciting activity, especially the exploration of unknown territory: they had adventured into the forest More example sentences 1.1 [with object] Put (something, especially money or one’s life) at risk: he adventured $3,000 in the purchase of land So, where in Scouting is the adventure? We advertise the product and then never deliver. And to think we can pull the wool over the eyes of an age group that has their adult BS detectors on high 24/7. Stosh

Dealing with this issue in small claims court will not involve the child. No police report, then small claims. One may not get the money in the settlement, but being on record does give a heads up on a background check. Stosh

I discourage EP's that involve "fundraising". It could mean a boy loses out on his Eagle because he didn't raise enough money for his project in time before his 18th birthday. We had a thread on the forum similar to this a while back. Instead, I let the boy know there are plenty of options out there that don't involve having to raise money. I had one boy clean up landscape after a church addition was put on his church. Everything was provided all he needed to do was coordinate the scouts, the helpers from church and a neighborhood group that showed up to help. He also worked with the contractor who was to put in the sidewalks and such and had to coordinate his workers away from the wet cement, etc. The money for the project was already set aside by the church. So unless the money is there before the boy starts, I don't say no, but I do suggest alternatives. One of the best EP's I had a scout do, was when I was the ASM for the troop. SM didn't think it a good idea for a project, the council review committee didn't think it a good project either, but I talked them into it, and yet it got a half page write up on the front page, second section of the local newspaper and again on the front page, second section of the state newspaper. It cost absolutely nothing to do other than gas to drive the boys around. He also won the State American Legion Scout of the Year award for it as well. It doesn't have to be expensive, just good. Stosh

A DUI when one is 21 years old might not be a big deal anymore to the government after 10 years, but BSA might not want to risk it. Stosh

This is why I haven't been involved with the Cub program for 20+ years now. It's no longer just for the boys. BWCA is 99% lakes, 1% rapids between some of them that can easily be portaged. Yes, a Cub Scout can go to BWCA. I've seen quite a few families with Cub aged youth and younger up there. I've also seen Cub Scouts leave early from a picnic and fun activity in a city park, because there were no flush toilets, only pits. Suck it up Cupcake, my 8 year old daughter (Not the tomboy one, the fancy dress one) has done the BWCA for a week. We got out there to the step off point and she said, "Where's the restroom." I handed her a roll of TP and said, any pink tree will do just fine." When my children where younger and needed a parent to help in the restroom, we didn't go camping. Stosh

The point being, a cub scout should be able to handle a weekend without having to have a shower with his parents. If he can't handle that and there are no facilities that can accommodate him, he'll just have to take a pass on that activity. I know of a few boy scouts that won't go to BWCA or Philmont because it's too rugged. Applies to cubs too. The program is for the development of our boys, not the entertainment of their families. Stosh

Would governmental security clearance cover everything the BSA looks at? Stosh

Bigoted kids learn their attitudes from their bigoted parents. Stosh

G2SS is not for the protection of the youth, it is for YOUR protection. No family showers? That's unfortunate, but here's the rules.... In the BWCA there are no showers to worry about. The trek is usually a week long. And then we have parents on an overnight that can't have a shower in the PM or AM with their under-aged kids who trek along? Too bad. Scouting is an outdoor activity and unless it rains, you're not guaranteed a shower. Stosh

You are the character. Stosh

Sometimes my approach does not produce the "best" in terms of leadership, but it will more often avoid "no one" in terms of leadership. One can have a reluctant leader who does a mediocre job and one can have a willing but less skilled leader who does a mediocre job. There's trade offs in everything. I just like the idea that when my parents and leaders step up to the plate they do so by selecting what THEY think they would like to do rather than what I think they should be doing. Some people like to be asked, I'll give you that much. But others still would prefer to pick for themselves. Maybe it's a combination of both approaches that one must always consider. To-date, I have NEVER asked someone to do any particular job. I merely put out the need in front of everyone and let them decide whether or not they want to participate in the venture. Some how I have always had my people step forward. This past year the parents organized and ran every fundraising activity for the troop. They raised enough money that the boys only had to pay a token $50 for summer camp. Those efforts were spearheaded by parents who could least afford to have their kids in scouting. They didn't have the money, but they were willing to work. When the parents didn't step up and a fundraiser was available, the boys took it on themselves. I guess I just don't like offering up a "pig-in-a-poke" to my parents. I want them to know exactly what it is they are getting themselves into and then let them decide whether or not they are up to it. If so, here's a pen. Stosh

Qwarse has it right, the activity is not to do an activity for advancement, it's an activity that prepares a boy for things he will need to know to be a contributing adult in society. It is very rare that I see a Eagle Review Committee hassle an Eagle candidate over the minutia of their proposal. They, too, seem to look at the Big Picture. The 9-Step Problem Solving technique used in Lean Manufacturing is less complicated that what some of the SM's make the Eagle project proposal out to be. I've seen them do it. Stosh

And where is the line between teaching and doing it for him? I see it crossed all the time. If one points out grammatical and spelling errors isn't that doing it for him? I'm convinced the boys relying on the adults to do it for them unless warned up front it isn't going to happen. If one spends all their time pointing out safety issues. and makes suggestions right and left, what's left for the boy to do? What research is necessary for his project is there which he doesn't need to do because the adults will cover for him? If the boy is not identifying and correcting his own mistakes, the adults are doing it for him. Yes, I have had a boy doing a project that required prior Diggers' Hotline approval which he didn't have. He had to postpone his project for a week until that was done. It was a hiccup, not a failure on his part. I knew he didn't have it, but I'm sure that from now on, he'll think twice before putting a shovel into the ground. Yes, I could have saved a lot of people a lot of hassle, but then, I could have just done his project for him and everything would have been running smoothly all along. In this case, there was plenty of other things as part of his Plan B that kept everyone busy besides the digging on that first day. People learn more from their mistakes than they do if someone does it for them as a "teaching moment". In my book "Oops" is the greatest teaching moment there is. When I have a new project the Mrs. wants me to do. The first thing I do is start asking people questions because I don't have a whole host of people standing around making sure my project is successful. I tell my scouts that I expect them to operate on an adult level when it comes to their project and surprisingly they always do. Stosh

My new unit with plenty of adult leadership is in an area that used to have 5 Boy Scout units and the final one closed about 4-5 years ago. Council asked me to start one up. This area is not the burbs, it's the part of town considered "across the tracks" from the "real" town. As a matter of fact it was the railroad section of town for many years. Only one of my boys lives in a home with his natural mother and father. Some are bi-racial, and a couple of single moms. For camporee this past fall, one of the boys borrowed his grandparents tent so the patrol would have shelter for the weekend. The troop owns nothing at this point. The next closest troop to our location just folded last fall. One can blow off my idea if they so choose, but it's really not fair to draw conclusions about it based on pure speculation and conjecture. Stosh

If one is going to do a quality job for the Eagle project, maybe the scout should also do a quality job on the paperwork. It's all part of the same project. A boy who cuts corners on the paperwork is apt to cut corners elsewhere. If adults are going to cover over/correct/edit the boy's work, then it is no longer his work. Every time an adult does this, they are stealing an opportunity from the boy to show leadership, the express purpose of the project itself. Stosh

I am fully aware of what I am signing and yes, it does not say "read", "critique", "correct", "modify", "vet", "edit", or any thing other than review. I'm thinking if they want the SM to read it, they would say so. This reviewing process, of course, happens long before the boys puts pen to paper. SMC's are held to offer project opportunities and options. They are used to encourage and monitor. They are there for the boys to ask for help if they need it, etc. By the time the boy puts his paper in front of me to sign I know exactly what the boy is intending to do. I don't need to read it. I don't know if his T's are crossed and his I's are dotted, or whether or not his grammar is perfect. But I do know it is not my job to judge the quality of his writing. No where in BSA literature does it say for me to do that! All these extra steps the adults gyrate themselves through to insure the boy's project meets their standards is adding to the requirement. Sorry, I have seen these well-meaning extras abused to the point where one boy actually quit scouts rather than deal with it. The road to Hell is paved with a lot of good intentions. A little MYOB goes a long way in helping a boy become independent and stand on his own two feet. A boy's Eagle project is exactly just that, HIS PROJECT! Leave him alone to work it through. If he has a concern or needs help, he knows where to come. If he's not yet mature enough to do that, maybe he's not mature enough for Eagle. If the boy's proposal doesn't fly at the Eagle review committee, then it will bounce back and he'll need to work it out with them. I'm sure they will be quite clear in why the proposal has been rejected. I've never seen that happen so I can't speak to it. I have had the ERC call me and ask about a boy's project but it never had anything to do with punctuation, spelling or grammar. Stosh

Seattle, I do believe that both systems can work, it's just that my system requires far less effort and hassle, and produces the same results. As far as "getting the best candidate", it's always a crap-shoot as to whether or not the vetting group does their job. I have found that a person is not going to sign up for a task without knowing themselves well enough to know they are going to be successful at it. Also they take a bit of time to think about it before the "sign on the dotted line" and make a commitment to the unit. There is no one there trying to talk them into anything, just the person, their conscience and a pen. One of the side effects of this process is that I know that only what I get signed up for is what I am expected to do. The unit is not going to come around next month and whine for more help, only to come around the month after that and whine again. Once a year and you're done. The whole year is planned and committed and all one need do is put together a little booklet of who's doing what and get it out to everyone in the unit. Next year, take the same program, throw it out on the wall, maybe a combination of the "tried and true", something kinda "new and different", and toss in a couple of the "oldies but goodies" that didn't get enough signups last year. Maybe even a couple of blank sheets for someone from the parent group that has something they would like to do and it's not on the wall. I just started a new troop within the last year. I use my system and I have a full compliment of adult leadership of people who said they wanted to help. I didn't need to even recruit. The programming, on the other hand with the signup sheets is not for the parents, but for the boys in that we are a boy-led program and they decide on the programming. It would be different for a Pack setting, of course, where the leadership comes from the adults. Stosh

Part of the purpose of the project is to be good at it. If the boy knows it is not going to be critiqued, vetted, processed in anyway and that he is on the trapeze without a net, he'll do a good job, on his own, the first time. No adult crutches! The potential to fail is right there in front of them, they need to figure out how to avoid it. IF, on the other hand they ask for help, they get it of course. I have had boys have their project proposals and final report outs looked over by their English teachers! Hey, that shows real maturity. I'm not the one who always has to teach, but I make opportunities for the boys to step up to the plate. Whether it be a job interview, a college application, or whatever, the boy needs to learn to stand on his own two feet. This project is yet another opportunity to learn that. If they screw up and not get Eagle, that's a life lesson they taught themselves. They don't need me to rub it in. It's always quite remarkable the level the boy achieves when he knows there is no one there to guarantee him success. Surprisingly it has been my experience that only those that quit actually fail. Even with this attitude of mine, Eagle scouts still honor me with their mentor pin. Stosh Stosh

I have no "rules" for settling down in the evening. They all know that if they are going to get a good night sleep they better get asleep before I do or they will have to put up with my snoring. With a lot of my boys, they are pretty tired and often head to bed at sundown. Getting them to stay awake for a campfire is sometimes a problem. And yes, I have had to wake up my boys around the campfire and suggest they finish up in their sleeping bags. Stosh

I just sign without reading. It's his project, his proposal, it should be his job to get it right. To-date, no project has been rejected by the committee. I don't see anywhere in the requirement where leaders should be involved in the project or the project's proposal paperwork other than a signature, which they automatically get. It give me a heads up he's decided on what he wants to do. Stosh

Who's being honored at a COH? When I attend a theater production, I don't expect to participate in a big group hug with the actors afterwards. I view a COH as honoring the boys, not their family, not the scout leaders, just the boys. As a matter of fact, as SM I've never participated in a COH unless specifically asked by the boys which has happened only twice, when the Eagle candidate asked me to come forward to receive their mentor pin. Stosh

With being a new troop, we don't have troop tents so the boys brought their own. One big "family" tent that the patrol all stayed in. Noise is not a problem. As a kid we used to have patrol tents, big wall tents that slept 8. We seemed to do very well. When we couldn't bring the big tents, we meadow crashed or used tarps/ponchos for shelter. Stosh