Stosh

Miami_Chief, some young upstart comes in on this forum and starts taking the old-guard to the cleaners is not going to bode well for you. After all if you're going to make any progress with us here, coming in like this with a fresh perspective that makes sense isn't gonna cut it. Yeah, I think you're correct, a lot of times we banter around things like BOR, EBOR, DE, POR, MB's and such and never take into consideration any of the newbies lurking too intimidated to ask questions like, "What the H..L is EBOR???? I for one thank you. Obviously from your perspective it would make sense to use common business alphabet soup so that people understand rather than the secret handshake terminology we in the BSA (aka, Boy Scouts of America) use to keep the clique going. If some SE wants to use CEO instead, it does not mean he's being uppity any more than the old guard, Banana Republic scout leader with 15 rows of knots on his uniform. Stosh

Don't yank your boy out of the troop!!! Do a mom/dad BOR with him and see what he would like to do. Scouting is his decision! Express your concerns, let him add his input and then give him permission to make the decision as to what he thinks best for him. It just may be that he likes it where he is. That of course does not mean you need to continue. If other troops are out there looking for good leaders wanting to do it right, there's nothing in BSA policy that says you can't register as a leader in one troop and your son in another. If he's unhappy with the troop, then the two of you (at his directive) can seek out a troop that will meet his needs. Stosh

It would seem that you're not tough enough. If it were me, I'd be looking for a new troop. To make any waves in a troop like this is totally pointless. Hopefully there is another troop nearby that actually does Scouting. This troop is nothing but an adult club that let's their pet scouts hang around. Stosh

The only thank you worth getting is one from the boys. Everything else is like a participation trophy. It may make the giver feel good, but it doesn't do anything for me.

BUT!.... if you had all week, you could probably actually finish the MB's ... on-site even. It's a bit of a stretch, but I think it can be done. Just bring a fake fire with the lightbulb in it, have the boys sit around and sing songs after 8 hours of sitting in a chair studying Citizenship. Sounds like a wonderful opportunity for the boys. If this catches on, the 1 Day MB Colleges would become obsolete and the boys could get to Eagle 5 times faster. Just think of the possibilities. This way the boys can earn Eagle while being a Boy Scout, that is before they are forced to go into Venturing at age 14. Stosh

Regardless of the release date, movies are released for home use, not public viewing. It involves more than simply having the DVD and tossing it into a DVD player and having a more than family audience. Stosh

I order to have two deep leadership at last weekend's outing, two young siblings showed up and pretty much messed around in everything the Boy Scouts were trying to do. I don't know if it would have been better to allow the disruption or just call the event off. Stosh

With the number of WW II veterans passing the shortage of buglers is a on-going serious problem. With the bugle only ceremonial, it's becoming pretty much obsolete in today's world. Stosh

I'm waiting for California judges to be barred from certain Christian churches that don't accept homosexuals either. I lived in California for a while, it was good to go back home. Stosh

And where in the rules does it say a scout unit must use a scout camp for summer activities? Let's just have Merit Badge Week at the Council Office for the boys. Stosh

How does one recalibrate a compass to point somewhere other than north? Of course a little fuzzy logic goes a long way to convince others where true north really is. Unfortunately fuzzy logic and morality don't make good companions. Stosh

Lawful and unlawful is only an arbitrary designation set up to justify some bigotry and not others. People discriminate all the time [h=1]discriminate[/h] dis·crim·i·nate (dÄ­-skrÄ­m′ə-nÄÂt′) v. dis·crim·i·nat·ed, dis·crim·i·nat·ing, dis·crim·i·nates v.intr. 1. To make a clear distinction; distinguish: discriminate among the options available. 2. To make distinctions on the basis of class or category without regard to individual merit, especially to show prejudice on the basis of ethnicity, gender, or a similar social factor: was accused of discriminating against women; discriminated in favor of his cronies. v.tr. 1. To perceive or notice the distinguishing features of; recognize as distinct: unable to discriminate colors. 2. To make or constitute a distinction in or between: methods that discriminate science from pseudoscience; characteristics that discriminate early stone artifacts from pieces of natural stone. People who don't discriminate generally are those that don't notice differences until some bigoted person brings it up. Even if they do, they don't feel it important enough to bring it into the situation. Only those who insist on acting on their discriminations are considered the true bigots. Stosh

In this electronic age, the American society has no moral compass. Stosh

Hmmm, let me get this straight. Boy Scouts discriminate against atheists and homosexuals. The State of California discriminates against Boy Scouts of America. Is this a chicken and egg thing or is it the pot calling the kettle black thing? Stosh

This guy is so out of touch it is unreasonable to think one can work effectively with him. If a boy walks out of a BOR without approval, it is not a "postponement" it is a failure to reach a conclusion on the part of the committee and that must be documented with the boy and the council in a letter. Time to move on. Been there done that multiple times in my scouting career. Stosh

No-go zones in America? They're all over the place in every city. We may not talk about them, but we all know they're there. Stosh

It is if the requirements don't ask for it! POSITION OF RESPONSIBILITY is not a POSITION OF LEADERSHIP. The scout was a librarian and now he has to teach someone how to set up a tent???? Am I that far off base that this sounds like some kind of a controlling adult vendetta stance? I can see why the SM was ready to quit. This BOR needs to 1) reconvene immediately, 2) call the boy in and extend a full apology for being stupid. 3) Sign off for his earned award 4) get some training so this never happens again. Stosh

Whoa... I misread the original post. If you were part of this BOR and have inside information the scout was not privy to, there are so many things thus described that are wrong, I would approach the CC and let them reconvene a valid BOR group that knows what they are doing. Sounds like "these two leaders" are adding to requirements that have already been fulfilled, a major no-no in scouting. I hope that the CC is not one of "these two leaders" in that you are really screwed if that is the case. By the way, these separate hoops the BOR is requiring are bogus and outside the scope of the Scout Law. One does not show leadership by setting up tents and I don't believe there is anything in the requirement that says a boy has to show leadership in anything required for Star. In the future I would refuse to sit on any BOR for this troop until they were properly trained and held accountable for their actions. Boy joins at 11, by 12 his could be FC, by 12 yr 4 mo he could be Star. What gives "these two leaders" justification that 13 is too young for Star and they have taken it upon themselves to deal with something that BSA has strictly forbidden? I would get my UC involved with this issue immediately. Stosh

While one always has a tendency to jump to conclusions, could it also be possible that the boy was relating his experience with the troop and providing some excellent feedback to the BOR that they simply ran out of time. "Joe has a family commitment next week so we can't reconvene then, but let's get together in two weeks to continue this great discussion." Why does the mind always jump to the worse case scenario? I find that MYOB helps me sleep better at night. If I were the SM of this troop, I would simply let the boy know that I was available to talk if there is something that went on in the BOR that he feels I might be able to help him with. After all, I might be the person that is the problem, too. It's not my job to interfere, just to help. Stosh

Everyone discriminates, get over it and go find people that you feel more comfortable with. It's a personal choice, not some ineffective law. If one doesn't believe me, just ask yourself, "If a convicted pedophile, having served their full sentence, just moved in next door, would you take them a hotdish and housewarming gift?" It's just a matter of prejudice du jour. We all participate in it on a regular basis. BSA doesn't need to evolve into anything. It's been serving youth for 100+ years and doing just fine. It's the moral compass of others that has gone off on a holier-than-thou rant that is more a reflection on them than on BSA. Hmmm, let me remember back a minute. Yep, 1968-74 our US military were considered baby killers and our law enforcement officers were pigs. This was also the same time that BSA changed course so as to no appear to be so militaristic. And we all know what that got the BSA in terms of youth membership. So what changed? Same US military personnel, same law enforcement officers, but people seemed to have gotten their moral compasses readjusted. Judging people only causes divisions amongst people and I'm totally convinced that the person who notices the differences first is most often the bigger bigot than those that go through life not worrying about such things. Stosh

Weatherman: the only job where one can be wrong every day of the year and still keep the job. Don'tcha just love the media? Back when I was a kid the newspaper gave us the news, today all we get is the National Enquirer and People wrapped up in "whatever sells." Just a few weeks back the media told us we're going to have a bad winter day. All the schools closed in anticipation of it and it turned out to be a really nice day for the kids to go out in the snow and play for a change. They'll just have to tack on a nice June day to make up for it.

It could be an issue that came up from the time the requirements were signed off and the convening of the BOR. I'm sure the boy was told what was necessary to be done in the two week time period when the Board reconvenes. Whether or not the boy wishes to make that public knowledge is up to the boy. If the BOR is going to be nothing more than a chit-chat with the boy, with no re-testing, no re-viewing, no questions asked, kind of thing, then I would say, just do away with the process. Obviously the Board had some concerns, that's why it's there. They didn't say NO, they just said, take a couple of weeks to "fix" the Board's concerns and then they're done. If this process didn't occur occasionally, I would seriously question the quality of the BOR's work. I don't think it needs to be in writing. I'm sure the boy knew exactly why the Board was hesitant. The issue is between the BOR and the boy. Everyone else needs to MYOB. Stosh

How bad does something illegal have to get before we report it? Turning a blind eye makes one an accomplice. Maybe one ought to check their own moral compass before looking at the next guy's. Stosh

Don't ask me, ask our youth! We don't ask, we just tell them and then make it so safe it's totally boring. The reason why action heros are so popular today is because they get to do what kids can't. Next generation of scouts will be made up of super paranoid parents that want their kids to sit in the house (and eventually the basement) where the only excitement in life they get is from the video game they are playing. Oh, wait, we're already there in a lot of homes. To this day I still have parents upset because I took their Webelos cross-over boys white-water canoeing just 2 months into the program. Been doing it for 25 years and haven't lost a boy yet. None have ever been hurt either. All of them love it. With the feminization of our society it will only get worse. When a child is climbing a tree, mom will stand at the bottom and yell "Be careful!" and dad will stand next to her and yell, "How high can you go?" Eventually scouting will become obsolete in our society with the track it's taking. Only thinking that says adventure = danger will produce a program with no adventure. Stosh

Awards are earned, gifts are expressions of appreciation. I would make every possible effort to do as Seattle says, but the gift of appreciation needs to be a bit more from the heart. People don't earn gifts. Stosh