Stosh

And it is clear who's really in charge, running the show. When are the adults going to learn that if one stays out of it, they never get caught holding the bag. The more the adults get in there and mess with things, the more obvious it becomes that they don't know the first thing about running a Boy Scout troop. 3 ASM's ??? where's their SM babysitter. This should have been handled by the SM, even if it meant the discussion was postponed until a later date and time in a different location.

Sounds like it's time for this troop to start using the boy-led requirement of scouting and quit making up rules as they go along. Too bad your son didn't find the courage to stand up to the bully. 1) the adult should not have been present at the activity. 2) the boys got the work done with or without a few missing. 3) I would suggest to the SM they find a new ASM, that YPT doesn't allow bullying and berating of boys in public or private. If this guy can't control his emotions at a service project which was none of his business, what about next time when the situation is more serious? Safety first, the ASM is gone. I don't allow bullying from the boys or the adults. No second chances.

How much do the boys pay to volunteer for scouts? Sorry, but the boys are voluntarily paying for a program just like any other program being offered out there. When I pay for an annual pass for the YMCA programs, I'm not volulnteering. One does not pay to be a volunteer for a program, they pay for what the program provides in service, education, etc. When a person picks a college to attend, they don't volunteer for the school, they voluntarily go there because of what it has to offer and they pay for the knowledge. One trains managers, but they develop leaders. There's a big difference.

All of the adult training has been council-wide for over 30 years when I took the SM Fundamentals. We have 3 districts but about the only thing the districts do is RT and camporees. Everything else is council-wide. Within the past few years one of the has dropped spring camporee and now the fall camporee is the Spookaree for the Cubs that the Scouts run. Well a few of them do, the rest use the weekend for going camping instead. I went to the inaugural Spookaree a few years back, Not my cup of tea.

Sometimes we focus so much on making a unit grow, we forget about the boys already there. If one is on the verge of extinction, just enjoy the last hurrah, have fun and go out in style. That's what I've been doing for some time now and every now and then we take on a loner boy and he just joins in the fun, too.

When I was a kid ( ) some of our best camporees were in farmer's hay fields. Oh, by the way, the farmer didn't charge anything and nobody got a patch.

Of course we did. That's why I suggested it.

No organizational structure in the world is going to work for that group. You might as well have the janitor running that group.

Welcome to the forum. I've started a new troop in a depressed neighborhood and haven't grown much either. We have never had a feeder pack and the closest unit to us is an Eagle Mill that attracts scout inclined boys in droves. I focus on the patrol-method, boy-led and that's really not a popular program for most boys. Even Cub Pack from our CO sends boys to the other troops.

That's too bad. When I suggested it to a group I was with, we raised well over $10,000.

At my high school graduation, 6 seniors were awarded the National Thespian Honor Award. 5 of them were leads in the school's productions. I was never on stage. I was in the pit orchestra for the musicals, I was props, costumes, stage manager and was director for the one-act play production. I earned a "Letter" in basketball, too. Never played a game, nor scored a point. But if someone needed ankles taped, a towel, stats maintained, running the clock, etc. the trainer was called upon without any spotlights showing on them. When everyone else grabbed binoculars and headed out on the tarmac for a downed plane state-wide search in Civil Air Patrol, guess who got stuck in the command center manning the radios and mapping locations on the map of completed search patterns. Some people get "stuck" doing the dirty work and holding things together behind the scenes. One doesn't need to be in the limelight to "help other people at all times." By the way, the long term affect of the behind the scenes leader is I just got back from 4 weeks in Houston with Harvey's rampage and the Division Staffing Lead gave me a call this afternoon and because of the magnitude of the damage, hardship conditions, minimal access to food and water, possibly sleeping outside due to shelter shortages and everything one needs to take has to fit into what one can carry on their back, no luggage they specifically want me to head out to the Virgin Islands to help with the recovery efforts after hurricane Maria. Someone, somewhere along the line, some see things that others don't. I was very shy in high school, I didn't date, but my Dad paid me $50 to take a girl to the Senior Prom because it was important that I didn't miss out on that experience. I outgrew it. @swilliams, don't worry, your boy will outgrow it too.

If the PL/APL's don't want to follow the SPL, then why would any others in the unit want to follow. One cannot put the onus of the problem on the followers, sometimes the problem is the leader or lack thereof.

Volunteers already have the heart of a leader, that's why these people are in the military serving their country. Scouts are not volunteers, they expect something from the organization. Volunteers only want opportunities to serve. Big difference. That's why so many youth programs have problems. Volunteers don't join an organization to be entertained and taken care of, they take care of others.

I have taken church groups to large metropolitan cities and as long as they stayed in groups of 6 or more they could leave the hotel and go shopping or find some place to eat. Never had a problem, there's safety in numbers. If a co-ed church group can handle being on their own in a large city, a patrol should be able to handle themselves in the woods. Parental Panic of unfounded fears is not a good excuse to ruin the adventure of a Scout unit.

Raffle off a goat.

Kids today at the same age are not as developmentally mature as they were 50 years ago.

After 50+ years of cooking over an open fire, I can cook as well if not better than I do at home. The boys are allowed to make their own decisions when it comes to meals. It takes a long time to change the culture of a McDonald's generation. I've eaten a lot of good meals over the years and Micky D's isn't even on the chart. On a canoe trip, the boys ate boiled hotdogs and I ate sweet & sour pork over fried rice. I once anonymously entered entered my chocolate chip cheese cake in the camporee cobbler contest. It won and no one was heading home first thing Sunday morning because they were all waiting around to see who was going to claim the dutch oven it came in. While they were burning propane right and left at summer camp, I cooked all my meals on a rocket stove using twigs from the woods. If it wouldn't cut with a knife, it was too big to use. I lead by example, and I never want to set the example that Pop Tarts are okay for breakfast. The boys boil corn on the cob, I roast it on an open fire. My first meal I cooked at a Boy Scout event was rib eye steak, mashed potatoes and roasted corn on the cob on a fire I made cooking in my mess kit. I was 11 years old at the time, still wearing my Cub Scout uniform because I was just visiting. Why in the world would I want to eat what today's kids call "good food" when I know better. Do I teach cooking? Yep to every boy that asks. Not many do.

Of course if one has only 8 boys, It's still the Patrol Method, but it looks like the traditional top-down org chart. With two patrols the temptation is to add an SPL and that only further promotes the top-down concept. If the only job the SPL has is making sure the two PL's are successful, then you will see the shift away from traditional models and the Patrol Method. Got to thinking more on how to explain it. Most organizations from the Lion's Clubs to the Church Councils have a president on down. And that structure is very effective and efficient. We agree on that. But Boy Scouts is not an organization with efficiency in mind. It is an organization that teaches how most organizations run, but on a smaller scale with more opportunities to learn the process. Yes, one patrol looks just like a small Lion's Club in structure. It is meant to be efficient. But if there weren't multiple patrols, not all the boys would get a chance to try it out. Just one or two maybe. The Patrol Method is a way to teach more boys hands-on training at the same time with the SPL supporting them in their efforts. If scouts were to be an effective and efficiently run organization, just let the SM do it, he's got the know how to do it. But if the boys are to learn, they had better be given the opportunity to do so.

OMG, you're starting to sound like me. I even got in trouble at University of Scouting to proposing turning the chart upside down. The only good thing about it is they never asked me to teach again. If one looks at the chart in a practical manner, the further down one goes towards the SPL at the bottom, the stronger the SPL has to be to support the whole structure. I always teach my boys to get out front and lead, but it is just as important to lead from the rear seat in support of the driver. Get someone who can't figure out Google Maps as your navigator in rush hour traffic and you'll know what I mean. Yes, the driver is in control of the car, but the navigator gives him instructions on what road to follow. And yes. the "highest ranking" officers in my troops have always been the PL's. They run the show for the customer. Everyone else makes sure he's successful.

Survival Guides Older versions of the handbook Knot books Camp recipe books Hunting and trapping books Atlases Novels about scout exploits Old copies of Boys Life and other outdoor magazines Listings of appropriate internet sites pertaining to scout activities

I never eat with the boys, I don't like Pop Tarts for breakfast, hot dogs for lunch and god-only-knows for supper.

Just buy him a long-sleeve shirt.

I can understand why one would want a,structure like this. It's the most efficient form. With that being said, it is not a form that maximises leadership development. Only a few are "at the top". The patrol method breaks down the organization into small, easy to lead groups, thus allowing more boys to have the chance to lead. With the traditional model only a handful lead. It's efficient, but everyone else just follows along. With the patrol method, there are many leaders. One quarter of the boys are leading a group. Add SPL and troop leaders like TGs,QM etc.the percentage goes higher. Add patrol scribes and QMs and again the percentage jumps well over 50%. so one must decide what is the goal...efficiency or leadership development. The patrol method opts for leadership.

That's the point being made. One has to have the correct basis in which to promote leadership. Starting with a narcissistic boy will not produce a good leader. For selfish reasons he may become a good manager and get the job done so as to garner accolades and praise. A true leader of people needs a basis of concern for the welfare of others (take care of you buddies). Without that they won't care about following a leader who doesn't care about them. This dynamic goes on around us all the time. How many people in your circle of true friends are selfish? No one gets a real Eagle without the help one's friends. Those whose goal is to garner accolades and praise for the Eagle seem to struggle even getting anyone to help with their project. They're just not leaders. They are in no way running their own show. Scouters have to step in and force and threaten the scouts to help. Even then they "manage" to get the project done. I've seen this too many times in my scouting career. When leadership isn't promoted the boys suffer.