Stosh

Why not just go with Boy and Girls club, 4-H, or church youth group, or YMCA program with a camping emphasis? Then the kids can wear whatever they want.

Or just get a credit card and set it up as ACH payment. You get credit rating points for it and yet it operates as a debit card with no debit card fees..

Gee, I always thought it was the conservative, Republican, Bible-thumpers who were the ones who don't believe people are born gay and were not good role models for boys?

If a person is handicapped, they learn to live within society with their limitations. There is nothing morally wrong with what they are doing. They live the hand they are dealt. If a person has a certain skin color, the same is true. These people have no choice and physical characteristics are not a moral issue. However, certain activities people choose to do, do fall under moral issues. A person who's orientation is towards the same sex does not have to choose the sinful option anymore than the pedophile. I would love to be a millionaire, but my kleptomaniacal tendencies I keep in check and do not act on them. There's a difference between being something and doing something. It's the choices we make. A professional "hit man" has made a conscious choice that it is okay to have a murderous lifestyle. To some the abortion doctor might fall into that classification. A pedophile who preys on children is not an acceptable lifestyle in our culture The kleptomaniac's lifestyle of petty theft is not an accepted lifestyle either. However, now we are expected to accept as an okay lifestyle, homosexuality? What's next? So another person's choice has no bearing on me. I too have choices and when it gets to the point where I need to take a stand I will. Until then I don't worry about it.

Homosexuality among the clergy in the Catholic church is a moot point. The priests and nuns take a vow of celibacy. How would anyone know?

When I was in scouts in the early 1960's the necker was rolled, the collar tucked in. Eventually they began to make collarless shirts for just that reason. When ODL came on the scene I think the collar came back but the necker was tucked under. I really don't like the necker tucked under and the wad of collar tucked under is uncomfortable. The shirt is not made to have the collar on the inside. Duh! So we wear the square necker with a lanyard woggle over the collar. Works really nice and looks nice and there are no woggles/slides to lose. Look at the diagram for the Diamond knot. take a piece of parachute cord. Tie a Diamond Knot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_knot and along with the two loose ends, slide the necker ends through as well. Tighten at a point where necker and lanyard can be slipped off the head. Once tightened, it looks like there is a woggle on, but it won't slide down the necker. If the necker is needed for any reason, it can be removed and the ends pulled back through the knot. Tie once and forget it, never lose a slide/woggle ever again. As far as the uniform is concerned, it is one of the youth defined rules of the troop. If one is going to BE a scout they might as well look the part so people don't have to keep asking. I have boys that put their uniform shirts on after getting to the meeting and take them off as soon as flags are over. But during the activity they are expected to be in full uniform. This past weekend we were at camporee. The PL was going to ride in my vehicle to the event and his best friend didn't have his uniform on. When it was time to go I went over to my vehicle and said, "Scouts mount up!". The boy sans uniform came over and I asked him if he was a scout. He looked at me kinda funny like and the PL turned to him and said, "You had better find your uniform if you are going to ride in this car." Even being best friends doesn't trump troop rules. The PL did help him get his pack out and find his uniform. We do back off at summer camp in that it can be beastly hot at that time. While in camp the boys can shed the uniform. However at meal time, we "dress for dinner". If you're not hungry, you can forego the uniform. However, other than the waterfront and camp, the boys are in full uniform.

BSA uses boy-run for a reason. They teach management as the core of scouting today, and leadership, if any is merely an adjunct idea that might occur if it occurs naturally within a unit. The blurring of the line between leadership and management is the number one problem facing scouting today. Whereas we expect leaders, we train managers. As a result, this forum will find new life over and over again until that is corrected. Helicopter parents, adult led, POR's that are riddled with problems, boys not doing their jobs, youth that really don't want to be in scouting, etc. are all indications that leadership is not taught, not expected, or even not welcomed in the units. And if one can't see that, then that's yet another problem for the development of any leadership among the boys.

Age is of no importance. If one had an agenda, they could always find clergy in any religious group that would support it. Whether it be divorce, homosexuality or any number of other human failings, Any religious body that can justify the brutality of the Crusades and Inquisition can figure out a way to justify away the wording in Scripture on the issue of homosexuality.

Yes, correct, I am aware of the proper meaning of the commandment. The point I was making is that the use of certain words modifies one's understanding of the moral codes out there and as you point out, modern translation further interpret and change the moral meanings as well. Individually one cannot kill someone else, but as a group, it's okay? Murder vs. Capital Punishment? Just too many variables out there to merely state morality as fact, thus it stays in the realm of opinions.

Camp raids were always fun. Now that everyone has free-standing tents, that tradition has gone by the wayside. I also remember the boys would roll from one wall tent at summer camp to the next, hiding under the cots so the SM wouldn't see them when he stuck his flashlight in looking for boys after curfew. If caught everyone got in trouble. After having others keep getting caught in my tent and we got punished along with them, I just loaded up thistle plants under my cot and that solved that problem. The main game we played was camp-wide capture the flag after dark.

Airports will have 100 octane

I use white gas and unleaded all the time. I pay extra for the white gas because if it leaks it doesn't make everything smell like a gas station. I do have a white gas/propane two burner as well. Last weekend it was white gas and candles for the adults. Boys used propane, charcoal and wood. I used a small LED flashlight in the tent.

Our boy will just sign up for it at summer camp....

The troop librarian maintaining a MB book collection is a total waste of time and energy. There are plenty of other things more important for the boys to have access to than out-dated MB books. Like leadership resources, training resources, survival manuals, bird ID books, tree ID books, etc. How many troops out there only have out-dated MB books in their libraries? Raise your hands... Okay, that's pretty much the vast majority....

Gotta love the arguments and justification processes at work here. We don't want homosexuals leading our boys because their lifestyle is "sinful". But adulterers are okay. Same for those who gossip about others. Somewhere deep inside of me says that I really don't think murder, pedophilia, homosexuality, adultery, gossip, lying, kleptomania or any other types of vices are "okay". There are those who go to great lengths to try and justify their positions on these issues, and that's an okay thing for them to do. We have all been given free will to make our own choices. Just don't try and impose those justification on others. So the homosexual couple move into their new home in a nice neighborhood, but the Muslim neighbor doesn't bring over a plate a cookies, he comes over and kills them. The Christian police show up and take him before a Jewish judge who sentences him to the death penalty which is no big deal to the Muslim because he's gong to be martyred for his religion and this is a good thing. So explain to me how nicely this works out for the homosexual couple. Now if the people moving into that house were adulterers, none of this would have ever happened.... Or if the couple didn't want kids and aborted their unborn child, no one would have lost any sleep over that one either. One isn't going to amass huge rallies when a white man gets gunned down on a public street by a black cop. It just depends on what the sin du jour happens to be politically whipped up at the moment.. True justice is only an opinion, too.

Ever stop to consider: 1) Murder is homicide 2) Abortion is homicide 3) War is homicide 4) Capital Punishment is homicide 5) Fatal auto accidents are homicide 6) Self defense often results in homicide There are many different ways to redefine homicide to make it "morally" acceptable. All the redefinitions are just opinions made by humans to placate their justifications for homicide.

Show up for a football game with your pads, helmet, jersey and blue jeans and see how often the coach sends you into the game.

One doesn't need to be in WB to do a ticket.

I'm really close to this, but I still get hung up on the terminology. Boy-led and boy-run are two different issues in my book. Boy-led implies where the leadership originates. In this case with the boys. However, boy-run does not define that very well. I believe one can have an adult-led, boy-run troop. The adults make the decisions and the boys carry them out. Adults use leadership to direct, boys are limited to management of the goals defined by the adults. To me when someone proudly states their troop is boy-run, it doesn't impress me one bit. All that means is the SM runs the show and the boys are the minions who carry it out. For this reason when I am teaching my boys, it is only at their request and directed by them. There are times when the boys are "in over their heads" on some issue and they have the option to consult with the SM on possible solutions to the situation. I offer suggestions, opinions, etc. and the PL picks the one he thinks best for his boys. I then support him in his decision (even if I don't think it's the best choice. It's still HIS choice and that's all that counts.) Until BSA defines the situation correctly and starts teaching to it correctly there will always be a misunderstanding of the roles involved. Boy Led requires boy leadership, boy run requires boy management. And so when the SM tells you he is the adult leader, he's also making the claim he's the boy's leader as well, but for management purposes the boys manage the goals he lays out for them. A truly boy-led unit is a rather rare entity in the BSA. The temptation is just too great for adults to get in there and fix thing and make them better.

I think there are a couple over 20 units in the district. 4 Troops and 1 Crew showed up for the camporee. District just north of us has about the same and ALL BUT 3 showed up for their's. -

2 X 4 - 4' long with the words "Board of Education" on it. Give one to each PL and if an adult comes within range they are to use it liberally. If the boys need help, they simply ask, THAT is what the adults are there for.

With only one patrol in the troop it makes it kinda hard to pull off patrol competitions. However, last night the boys were talking about inviting another troop or two to join them so they would have some competition at the fall camporee that they will be setting up. They seemed to like the idea of planning out out a camporee but at this point the are thinking it might be more than they could handle if it was open to the whole district. There's plenty of other troops to draw from that don't attend camporees that wouldn't interfere with the district's program.

Interesting argument and interpretation.... with that reasoning the whole of Scripture is out-of-date and irrelevant to today's world. Otherwise, it sounds a bit like cherry picking according to one's agenda. Either way, such practices are pretty much a waste of time and energy.

One can interpret moral opinions all they want, they might even have their own moral codes based on those opinions, but he FACT remains, the only opinion that counts is that of the judge in the courtroom you and your lawyer are in.

One of my roomates in college was homosexual (back in 1969), I have had homosexual parishionerss, friends and acquaintenances, and I have signed off on a homosexual to get his Eagle before BSA said it was okay. No one's going to pin a bigotry charge on me and get away with it. I mind my own business and as long as others (any others) do the same, we're good. Putting people out of business, and boycotting, and threatening, and protesting, and such force me to take a stand which I do. I have done it against homosexuals and I have done it against other Christians. I guess I don't tolerate intolerance very well.. I will speak out against intolerance regardless of who's side it appears I am on.