Stosh

Unfortunately for the boys, BSA is teaching what they are practicing and that just isn't what Boy Scouts is all about.

Yep, totally irrelevant and has nothing to do with Scouting. My kinda thread.

Even when we do council-wide camporees, my district still doesn't show. The council calendar is put out in August, spring camporee is always the first weekend in May and yet two units couldn't attend because they had major fundraising going on that weekend. I do have to admit that the council has done some pretty stupid planning. They hold a Cub Scout Spook-o-ree in the fall instead of a fall camporee and the Boy Scouts get to come and work it for the Cubs. That went well the first year and they have been begging the boys to come again and help out. Even then the boys have to pay for the privilege of volunteering. That didn't last long. Eventually the other districts started holding their own camporees and ended up too busy to help with the Cub program. There are plenty of cub leaders that could step up, but don't. My boys get the district flyers from all three and then pick the one they want to go to. They will even watch the websites of neighboring councils to see if there is anything interesting there, too. As SM I support my boys and if anyone wants to know what's going on in my troop, they need to be talking to my PL, which you have pointed out, they don't do.

Mark Twain said he was quoting Benjamin Disraeli, the British Prime Minister at the time. However, no evidence of that in found in Disraeli's history. So while Mark Twain gets the credit, he is not the originator of the phrase by his own admission.

it might also mean their program is an entertainment program where the kids come, are entertained, and then come back when some adults have come up with something else that is entertaining. Kinda like going to the movies. If it entertains, I'll be there, otherwise, if one were to expect me to learn something, to develop character, or to get off my butt and help out, well then count me out. "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." - author unknown By the way, the Boy & Girls Club down the street from my house is know as the place where kids go after school while they wait for mom or dad to get off work. It's a babysitting service for older kids. The more families have both parents working needing babysitting service, the greater the program continues to grow.

GBB suggests the SM be the SPL for training. How does the SM know what to train? Well he reads the book and follows the instructions in the curriculum. Well, if the boys are fortunate enough to elect an SPL that can read, the SM is not needed, the SPL can and often times does a better job as the boys' peer. But like I said, the troop has to be fortunate enough to have an SPL that can read.

#1 & #2 - I have no problem with. #3 & #4 - I find create more problems than they solve. - I just have a different idea about the undefined definition of Patrol Method the BSA has not defined. BSA will toss out some du jour lingo that to some must mean something but no one really understands what they mean. I don't think BSA really knows what it wants when it promotes the patrol method other than that's what BP promoted so they had better too.

I guess we're just reading two different books.

My apologies, I tend to only read posts that address me. Didn't see your comment. I'm done.

Of course this problem isn't just a unit issue either. We had a unit that had a SM who would take in any kid into the program. A lot of them had physical and emotional problems. Well, the SM's wife became ill and he had to drop scouting. No one wanted to take over the program because of all the special needs kids and so the troop folded. How do I know this? 4 years later I have started my new troop 2 blocks away from where this unit's COR was. The council made sure the boys had all given up on the idea of BSA before asking me to start a troop.

Nope, always used vanilla.

@@moosetracker One always has plenty of clues to true bigotry if one digs deep enough. Yes, it's just a stupid cake. But had the baker refused to bake a cake for the KKK, nobody would say a thing. Maybe he'll get a burning cross in his front yard, but that's about it. But if the news reports are correct, the baker refused to do the cake, BUT (and I emphasize BUT!) he also offered the services of some of his competitive bakers who didn't have a religious problem with it and said that if they charged more for the cake than what he would charge, he would pay the difference. That wasn't good enough for the political agenda of this particular homosexual couple. With blatant bigotry flying here, it's really obvious to me that the baker was set up just to get the national homosexual agenda into the media. Am I prejudiced? No. I just have religious beliefs. If I were to get an invitation to a homosexual wedding as a guest, I would send a nice card congratulating them and a nice gift, but I would not attend. A card and gift are a social courtesy gesture. Attendance is not. Of course if my daughter were to be marrying some total jerk I would be doing the same thing.

And what happens to that code when social varieties over-ride the moral code established by God? After all the 12 sons of Jacob (Israel) were from 2 wives and their handmaidens. Makes a mess out of our modern moral code of today. Jacob had 13 kids from 2 wives and 2 adulterous affairs according to today's moral code. If God gave us this code, why is it mankind changes it to fit their agenda? Good thing hypocrisy isn't one of the 10 Commandments.....

But moral codes are established by societies. Common laws among like minded individuals. If one doesn't like the code of a certain community, don't move there. It's kinda like buying a house next to the airport and then complaining about the noise. Don't blame the world for your stupid choices.

@@moosetracker I for one don't care at all what the beliefs of others are and will support them as long as they keep their religious freedom to themselves. As you indicate as long as it involves no one else, then what's the problem. However when radical homosexuals mandate to cake shop owners and pizza parlor owners what they can and can't believe then they are way out of line. Using the government to back up their moral codes is no different than radical Islam forcing their code of law on someone. $139,000 worth of fines because they won't bake some stupid cake is not only a moral issue it is a political issue and affront to the Bill of Rights offered by the Constitution both of which seem to have disappeared over the past few years. The more religious laws on the books under the guise of hate crimes only fans the fire. If I were to be able to cast my vote on the issue, I would say anyone who tries to infringe on the beliefs of others is 100% wrong every time and those radical homosexuals in the cake shop are doing just that. If this guy won't sell me a cake, so be it. After 15 beers, the bartender won't sell me anymore beer too. What a bigoted jerk that bartender must be. If homosexuals want to get "married" so be it. Give them the license. If they want me to perform a ceremony, nope, I guess I'm going to get fined $139,000 and spend the rest of my life in prison for my religious beliefs. Even though I am no longer a practicing clergyperson, maybe I should be carrying malpractice insurance to protect me from the stupidity of others. Oh, wait, I DO!

I have had "normal" kids with attitude problems that couldn't be fixed either. We are not there to fix kids, we are there to assist them in becoming successful. Maybe some of those 11 families need fixing......

While the different vests are popular there is also a tunic or sash option as well. Yet what most people don't point out is the white shirt and khaki pants/shorts are also part of the required dress code. http://www.girlscouts.org/program/basics/for_volunteers/insignia/uniforms/

Any boy or family that can't find room for a scout with a disability, will not be able to do a minimally passing attempt at the scout Oath and Law and would probably do better putting their kid into a sport program that will automatically eliminate such youth. I really don't have the time or patience to tolerate such actions from others.

@@RememberSchiff "Might be a reason their youth memberships are learger than BSA and continue to grow." You might be right, and the course we see our youth taking in today's world, might be our Brave New World. Yeah, I was in Little League as a kid, and Scouts, and my church youth group. I went to the local teen hangout as well. But today, I still camp and go to church. Haven't swung a bat for years and the local teen hangout isn't very interesting anymore. I hang out with family and friends more often. My wife likes to camp and kayak too. She was never in Boy Scouts, but did do a year as a Daisy GS. I guess the years of family camping and her career choice of Forestry and working for the US Forest Service might be one of the reasons she's a Master Gardener. So, no, the BSA programs are not the only ones that will lead one to a life of living in the woods. But BSA is also a leadership development program, which the 4-H does a good job of as well. 4-H suffers because the image of 4-H in an urban setting is the same dynamic of camping in an urban setting for the BSA.

@@moosetracker So then as sexual beings, polygamy and adultery are okay as well? Polygamy is acceptable in the Jewish, Christian and Islamic sacred writings. It is only outlawed by US law. The citizens of the Utah territory were required to deny their religious beliefs in order to gain statehood. Adultery is okay in our culture, so now we can all breathe easier with all the single moms out there that either never married or were married by had their marriage broken up are being taken care of by US laws and programs. There are a lot of cultures out there where 12 year olds get married regularly and other "arranged marriages" (majority in the world) are set up for children as young as 2-3. So the pedophyle argument is unique to the US law as well. Nothing to do with morals, just legal status which may in fact run contrary to the sexual being argument and most definitely don't hold weight in the religious moral setting. Somehow the sexual being argument falls flat along the way.

Summer camp is selected by patrols. At this point I have only one patrol, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be 2 or 3 different options all taken the same summer. (whatever it takes to support the boys' decision) Currently my boys are unanimously decided on Camp Freeland-Leslie in south central Wisconsin. No dining hall, excellent waterfront program, nice OA call out, they like the facilities and MB selection. My vote in the camp selection doesn't count, I'm over 18 years of age. I haven't attended the local council camp for summer camp for over 10 years now.

I've had my fair share of challenged kids over the years. Sure they are a pain in the butt, but so is every other youth I have worked with. Somethings can be fixed (attitude) and others need a work around (physical disability). But they can all be dealt with to the betterment of the kids.

I guess it just depends on whether one views the boys as leaders or managers of the program. Two of the biggest movements in the business world in the past 40 years have been: 1) Servant Leadership and 2) Lean - Transaction/Manufacturing. Both rely on a redefinition and movement away from the Peter F. Drucker style of traditional management. Drucker was the management guru for many years, but further reevaluation by Robert Greenleaf and his Servant Leadership style moved out of the management of task into the leadership of people world and things took off. The CEO of a multi-billion dollar, international corporation went on record saying, "The worker on the assembly line does not work for this company, we work for them. They are the ones working for the customer, our only job is to make sure they successful at it." That was the first step that company took in their step towards Lean Manufacturing. There are a lot of people who think leadership and management are synonymous, but successful group operations know there is a huge difference. I really don't think the BSA has caught on yet and as an organization promoting leadership, maybe they ought to at least check into it.