Stosh

Okay, then, who's the Chief Cook and Bottle Washer?

The old writer was Mark Twain. Loved his sense of humor!

"Boys may be all about their patrol to the abandonment of the unit." Early scouting literature promotes this. Rarely are scouts depicted beyond the confines of their patrols, and then it was never the meeting of two patrols, just a patrol interacting with a single scout of a different patrol. It is also noted that the absence of adults was very much evident. When they were mentioned it was with the SM or some other official of the BSA, i.e. camp director or camp cook. If this early literature is reflective of the intent of Scouting, it is a far cry from what we have today.

My apologies for not properly welcoming you to the forum. Welcome and thanks for taking on the job of SM. Hopefully some of what gets discussed here on the forum will help you with getting your troop oriented to boy-led, patrol-method. I'm thinking the archives of the forum is loaded with a ton of material. In the meantime, make sure you post your status and any questions you might have on the subject specific to your situation, Well, it doesn't have to be related to anything other than scouting if you want to start up another thread, that's great too.

There's too much Chicken Little Syndrome going on at national fueled by the political climate we find ourselves in. So, let's change everything which may or may not entice new members but could disenfranchise the existing members. Then let's buckle under to social pressures that if everyone sit's back and does nothing will automatically set the new policies and goals of Scouting. All national has to do is have a cadre of lawyers, paid up insurance policies and fund-raise, fund-raise, fund-raise to pay everyone salary and staff the semi-lucrative Scouting catalog of uniforms and equipment. Is it any wonder the units that ignore National seem to be the most successful?

@ Does the SM see it as well or is he/she a bit entrenched in the troop-method? Do you discuss any of this with your son?

How many people at national were even around during the 50's and 60's? Very few, they would be retiring right about now. Also the backlash of Vietnam's anti-military hit of the early 70's pretty much cleaned house. The whole new generation of people have never experienced the patrol-method of the 50's and 60's. And these are the people who are going to bet their careers on something they know nothing about? Like I said, it's my opinion that the ship has sailed.

Your denomination must be different than a lot. The Pastor is supposed to be spending his/her time with the spiritual life of the church, the ministry within the congregation and it's ministry in the community is supposed to be coordinated by the church board. It's too bad the new Pastor can come in and disrupt the life of the church so quickly. Must be a newbie to the profession, at least she acts like it.

Do we have any new SM's out there that can give us old goats a perspective on how they see the challenges they are facing as they take over the troops? It's been a long time since I set foot on the stage that the view of the world has to be different now for the new guys, What say ye?

First of all the adults may have an inkling about what the Patrol Method is, but the boys don't. Nothing in their experience thus far in life is anything like it. So then the adults explain it to them and then don't disappear so it really never gets any traction. Eventually the adults take over simply because the troop will fail on the track it's headed. I know so many troops out there that have patrols in name only and then for the sake of convenience those get shuffled around for a variety of different reasons. When all is said and done the boys really don't know what the patrol method is because nothing in their experience thus far in life is anything like it, even after 6-7 years of Boy Scouts.

It'll never happen. It is my opinion that that ship has sailed and BSA will now simply wait out the old guard and do whatever it wants. It's kinda like football. Used to be leather helmets, no face guards, few pads. Now even the pressure in the football is regulated and monitored. Or baseball... When Casey hit the ball it cracked, now it dings. Or hockey, you used to be able to pick the goalie out of the crowd. 50 years from now, you won't be able to even recognize the program as a outdoor program.

@@LeCastor Bummer. Sounds like your patrols fragment pretty easily. How long have they been patrols? And how does a patrol vote to not go to summer camp especially when two of the boys want to go? By the way with all my boys being brand new and doing their second summer camp if any want to join up with us at Camp Freeland Leslie, let us know. We already have another troop from N. Illinois joining us with 2 boys.

@ My apologies, for some reason I though you were a Texan. I get to visit your Big Sky Country this summer. My daughter, grand-daughter and I are heading out to Seattle for a wedding. @@LeCastor Hold on the tickets, I have new coordinates for your trip.

@@LeCastor As long as you can still drawl, you should be okay.

If I might ask, What was the reason for the two camps?

@ Yeah, I probably could have worded it a bit better.

@@LeCastor do you really think them Southern Boys are gonna listen to some Carpetbagger?

Maybe a new park with more swings and slides might be a new adventure for someone under the age of 5, but by the time the boys reach the teen years, one has to have dumped the babysitter to still call it an adventure.

Does your troop make summer camp selection by patrols or by troop decision? If three patrols all want to go to three different summer camps, will the PLC support the patrols or do they all have to go with a troop decision on the subject?

Your first priority is to your patrol. Once you get more experience and can function adequately, you can then think about helping out on the troop level. As a member of the patrol you have just as much responsibility to take care of every else as the PL does.

It's been interesting to follow this thread. It would seem that both sides of the issue feel strongly about the knots. I have 2 rows as stated by the literature. I have devices that mean I have earned the knot in two or three different levels of scouting. The trainer knot I earned in Cubbing, Scouting and Venturing (3 devices). I have the medals and service stars as well. I own a Banana Republic General's uniform for special occasions when it calls for it. I have good reasons for it. 1) the 2 rows only is what BSA prescribes 2) the devices show I have worked extensively in all three programs of the BSA 3) The service stars shows I have been around the block a few times in the mean time 4) the beads let you know I'm not interested in taking WB21C. 5) the temp badge from 1993 means I really don't want to keep sewing patches over pockets every other week. 6) the Eagle mentor pins on the collar are inappropriate, but I don't care. Am I proud of what I have done? Well, probably not, but I am proud of what my boys have done

If the church's youth group makes a $300/yr donation to the church; if the women's group makes a $300/yr donation to the church; if the men's group makes a $300/yr donation to the church; then I would say the scout units need to pay their free rent like everyone else. I have never heard of such a thing. My boys help out with the church's fall dinner, food pantry drive, and a number of other things for our CO, but NEVER have I heard of a unit doing this. As mentioned, the CO has agreed with the BSA to provide a meeting place free of charge.

Everyone has varying degree of need for recognition. Some more than others. One of the first knots I earned took almost 3 years to get it through council's approval system. My District Award of Merit is not on my official records because the DE didn't turn in the paperwork. My WB beads showed up in the mail. For some reason none of these awards seem to be all that important, thus not important to me either. I was nominated for Silver Beaver this year, and last year and ... well let's just put it this way. I'm not holding my breath. Have I gotten my tickets for the annual council banquet? Nope. Am I planning on going... nope. Not being one of the Good Old Boys does have it's advantages.

Banana Republic Generals always can have at least one row filled as a youth scout...religious knot, AOL and Eagle. Second row can be training for Cub and another for Training for Boy and that leaves one more for whatever District Award of Merit is pretty easy to get if you are gung ho for a year or two.. So a person can easily fill two rows. I have two rows and don't have the religious knot even though I'm ordained, never got to AOL nor Eagle. Saved many lives over the years, but didn't toot my horn. 30+ years will pretty much fill up on their own. I have never gotten a knot by doing my own paperwork. Just wasn't worth it. It's a pretty much hit or miss situation in scouting.