Stosh

Three ECOH's in June? What a waste of good weekends of camping. Sorry private ECOH's aren't encouraged and if one does want one, they need to work it out with the boys because all COH's are held by them. Our troop holds 4 COH's a year, on the 5th Tuesday of the month. The family can have their reception/celebration any time they wish.

It was school policy that if one lived within 2 miles of school, you would NOT be picked up by a school bus.

@andysmomThe ECOH does not need to be in the church. Resqman illustrates a variety of settings are equally nice. The issue with the pastor is very unprofessional. Changing an Eagle project work day is not as important as a ECOH. Family might be coming in from all over and travel arrangements and flights are to be moved because some scout has a work day? Sorry, not good enough, move the work day. See what happens when adults get in the way?

@@pargolf44067 Why is the family even in dialog with the troop other than the boy's PL and maybe the SPL? Boy-led, means talk to the boys. Patrol method means, for sure talk to the PL. Adult-led, means talk to the adults. My daughter graduated from high school and her mom did up the biggie reception thingy for the family and her friends. They came for about 10 minutes, said hi and ran off to the next party, they had to get back to their own, too. So in late August I offered my daughter a second graduation party. She could invite her friends for one last time before they all head off to colleges all over the country. They started at 11:00 am, sat out and chatted, made kabobs on the charcoal, chatted some more and eventually did some more kabobs and chatted until about 7:00 pm. when they all went their separate ways. My daughter and her friends thought it was the best graduation party ever. I didn't care, it was super easy to clean up... Go with what's important to the kids, not what society (aka adults) thinks it needs. If I misunderstood Barry, my apologies, I was assuming the troop was supposed to be following the boy-led, patrol-method program of the Boy Scouts. Obviously that doesn't sound like the case.

Obviously there are other areas where BSA's level of stupidity attains great heights than just squirt guns.

In this case, it appears it's prideful unit leaders that are the problem, not the family or scouts. Barry I don't buy the conclusion. A high school graduation reception is not the responsibility of the school and if they don't place enough emphasis on the occasion to suit the family, too bad. A religious "coming of age" ceremony reception is not the responsibility of the religious organization either. No reception, no big deal it has nothing to do with the religious leadership. So for Scouting and an Eagle everyone is supposed to jump through a ton of hoops to make it happen or there's something wrong with the adult leadership of the unit? Nope, the world does not revolve around Eagle scouts, Confirmands or high school graduates regardless of the struggles one goes through to get there. The program did it's job, the leaders did their job, and if the family wants to celebrate, they do it on their own time and dime.

Better yet have the SPL do the MC of the ECOH. Seriously I would think the best person to present his Eagle rank to him would be his PL who has presented him with his Scout, TF, 2C, FC, Star, and Life. Why should some adult step in and take over for the final presentation? I've attended every ECOH and ALWAYS just sat in the audience. SPL MC's the program and PL's make the presentation to their members. If a PL is receiving honors, the SPL presents them to him.

And if the families wish to make more of it than a COH, then they may do so at their own expense, not at the expense of programming for all the other boys. No one says that one has to have an elaborate reception for a wedding. A trip to the courthouse is all it takes. No one says that one has to have an elaborate reception for a graduation. Trip to the school is all it takes. I don't think it's appropriate that just because a boy hung around until he achieve the highest rank, the troop needs to provide more than a nice COH ceremony which they should be doing for all boys regardless of which rank it is. It may just might be more meaningful that the other patrol buddies chipped in for Oreos and Koolaid for a reception than some grandiose cake with a BSA logo on it .

I have seen as many as 4 scouts receiving their Eagle at the same ceremony. We make them out to be more than what they really are. Yes, it's the last rank. Yes, it's a graduation. Yes, you can put it on your resume, your job applications and notify the recruiters. Yes, you'll probably never see those boys in uniform again. So why is the troop making such a big deal of it. Let the parents handle it. At the school we have one graduation, and hundreds of graduation parties all over for the families to celebrate. Once you've reached 4 star general, it's time to quit.

Well, for one thing, you can't use the fire to dry the plastic junk the boys bring to eat off of.

Flambeau In Central Wisconsin is nice, lots of rapids, pretty exciting long enough for more than 3 days worth of paddle.. Bois du Brule is a 3 day trek in Northwester Wisconsin, again, lots of whitewater and nice DNR Campgrounds. Audubon does the three day weekend on Memorial Day weekend every year, stay away from that time. Otherwise, there are other rivers in the area that are really nice as well. The Bois du Brule can handle canoeists and kayakers of all skill level. However, I would portage the Ledges on the second day for the younger boys. A blast for the more experienced boys. The Fox/Wisconsin Rivers connect the Lake Michigan to the Mississippi basin. The Boid du Brule/St. Croix Rivers connect Lake Superior to the Mississippi basin.

Gee, I have only one sink at home... I wash and then rinse with hot water from the tap, then put in the rack to dry. I always prepare, eat and clean up by myself. Usually I cook in the frypan and eat right out of it, then I wash in soapy water, dunk in boiling water, hold over the fire to dry and put away, Same applies to the metal coffee cup I use. Dutch Oven gets cleaned out with water, then heated to dry and then oiled. My stamped steel frypan us treated like a cast iron fry pan so it only gets rinsed and re-oiled. I do understand why boys who don't pay much attention to the seriousness of cleanliness need the extra precaution that the 3 bucket system provides.

It just depends on whether the events are more important than the boys. Adults in my troop do whatever is necessary "for the boys." They are responsible for supporting what is necessary to make it happen. Eagle projects and their scheduling of work days is not dependent on having other scouts there. It will be unfortunate that the boy working on his project is going to miss his buddy's ECOH, but then he's the one that scheduled the work date. A little more boy leadership and less adult interference will go a long way in this troop. If my committee pulled one of those stunts on the BOR, I'd have another troop's committee do the review. No excuse for adult posturing in this situation, the boy earned the opportunity to have a BOR, and the adults need to make it happen for him. If the committee members are "too committed" to do their job, then they need to be replaced by those who aren't.

Yes, @@Hedgehog that's the point. Perspective. You see Scouting in a microcosm reality which is as it is for your area or maybe even a wide area of the nation. But that's not how others in that same reason see it. My categories are pretty much a caricature stereotype of groups which by in large were used in a general generic manner. In no way was it reflective of any one person. It is derived mostly from the many campfire chats I have had with the boys in my area. They do however seem to have a flavor which seems to be kinda evident in other places as well. But when you are in the program and can see the program for what it is, this is but one way the world looks at Scouting. All the prospective youth out there and their parents may or may not (mostly may not) see scouting the same way. I really don't see many fully uniformed scouts helping old ladies across the street anymore. Heck, I don't see many fully uniformed scouts... period. So with those changes going on, what are others out there supposed to think? What's the image of scouting today and what's it going to be tomorrow? Are we going to be dorky forever? and why weren't we dorky 50 years ago?

You're just jealous because you can't hear the voices I do.

I have found that boys with special needs tend to react differently than what would tend to be expected. I therefore don't react to what they expect from the average adult. Heck it even works on other kids as well. However, what we have in this example is the typical adult's reaction to a very common situation. They try what they think will work and when it doesn't it's the kid's fault. There is little one can do to change that attitude. They have been working on that bigotry for years. As far as "getting the heads up" is concerned, I had watched a number of Sunday School teachers having their hands full with one of the boys. They did their best but eventually everyone in the congregation knew about this boy. Well no one wanted to teach his class during the summer Vacation Bible School week, so I volunteered. I knew I was gong to have him eventually for confirmation so I had better get used to it. He came into the class and I invited him to sit next to me in class. Like that wasn't a given. He was up front, he had the class's attention and could act up whenever he wanted to. Within a few minutes of starting I caught him out of the corner of my eye making faces and attempting to disrupt the class. I never broke stride with my comments, but reached over and gently put my hand on his arm. That's not what he expected. After a while I brought my hand back and he started acting up again I repeated what I did before. After class he came up to me and said, Pastor B. I like you I'm going to behave for you. And he did, The other teachers still had problems with him, but I never did... all the way through confirmation. On issues like this, never trust the testimony of others to decide on some situations. After all, the problem may not be the kid, the problem may be you.

I'm not one that's gong to side with the good old boys when they abuse, slander and take advantage of women. Obviously under those circumstances, the chivalry of manhood has pretty much disappeared. Not completely, there are a few of us who take the less than friendly stares of women when you're polite to them. But that's their problem, not mine. On the other hand, I just don't think that leading a brotherhood of developing young men into manhood may be a talent of many women. My mother taught me housekeeping, cooking, laundering, sewing, ironing, and a variety of different skills once reserved for the female gender. I haven't used housekeeping since this morning, I cooked supper this evening and I have folded two loads of laundry and I have a load of laundry in the dryer as I type. But that's not something that defines me as a man. It's just a skill I bothered to learn. I hunt, I fish, I camp, I canoe and kayak, I hike I bike and do outdoor stuff all day long now that I'm retired. My daughter has already told me I'm to teach all her children the skills of the outdoors, whatever that means. I guess she wants me to make sure that my granddaughters aren't taken advantage of by predatory males. After all she wanted to know what model of Smith and Wesson I carried. She said it looked about the right size needed to fit into her purse. Yes, roles are changing, blending, but there's still something special when the Mrs. gets all gussied up with a dress and does her hair up that makes the evening feel different than when she's wearing jeans, flannel shirt and hiking boots. So where's the image of BSA headed?

it was interesting how suspicion is often contagious in certain situations. Right after my divorce I was to pick up my daughter from the public school and she didn't come out when the other kids did. So I went in to inquire about her. I was wearing dark pants, an Australian drover's coat, black of course, and a black felt hat. I was met at the door by a teacher with the panic look and inquiry, "Can I help you?" I said, "No thanks, I'm just heading to the office." That wasn't good enough and by the time I got to the office I had an eight person entourage accompanying me. When I got to the office, the secretary say, "Hi, Mr. B, you're daughter is running a little late but will be along soon, Just have a seat." I looked at my groupies and they had all sheepishly slunk away. When I looked back at the secretary, she just smiled and said "Maybe you should wear a different coat when I pick up my daughter."

Whereas my intent was not to blame anyone, but instead to point out the changing demographics of society. The mountain man image of the outdoorsy male is pretty much gone and is instead replaced by the stereotypical slack-jawed redneck imbecile. Is it any wonder scouts don't want to associate with that social image being promoted now. The uber-intelligent computer geek/hacker/gamer is the other end of the spectrum of social outcasts. These are the guys living in their parents basements with no hope of doing anything on a Friday or Saturday night other than LAN parties with other fellow geeks/hackers/gamers. The Brainiacs of the STEM world might win a trophy at the Science Fair, but that's not the same thing as bringing home the hockey, football or baseball trophy at the end of the season. Now those are the really cool guys. They might have the same IQ as the stereotypical slack-jawed redneck imbecile, but they get college scholarships anyway. That's cool, too. So who's left in society that we haven't talked about? Scouts? Yeah, right, they don't get much attention. After all these are the dorks. So now, BSA, who are you going to market to in the years ahead? An all male brotherhood lead by female leaders? Homosexuals? Dorky Good Old Boys, STEM Braniacs? Rednecks? I'm sure the vision is clear to the national BSA people to make the right choices.

A water canon is not the same thing as a water gun. BSA is only interested in water guns and water balloons. And by he way, firefighters aren't under the same rules as BSA. As a kid I remember the real water fights, not the barrel suspended between two telephone poles. This is where 3 man crew, one with his back to the opposing side to take the brunt of the water, one to aim and one to move hose. If the team were able to sweep the other team off their feet they won. A lot more exciting back then in the good old days.

While God may speak to people in a variety of different ways, we are called upon to test the spirits to see if they are from God. Just keep it in mind Son of Sam had God talking to him as well. Obviously the benevolence part of this process seems to be the critical step left out. That's usually an easy sign to spot when it comes to judging "messages from God".

Have a cup of coffee with the new SM explain the situation with him/her and see if your son might work out in the new troop. I for one have taken on "problem" scouts and haven't had any problems with them. Many times when an adult gives a boy a real opportunity to succeed, rarely do they disappoint. If the new SM is open to this, things should go well. I've had boys such as yours in my troops and it takes an open-minded SM to make it work. My question would be, where is the first SM in this whole process that allowed things to go awry in the first place? If I had 2 ASM's acting like this couple, I would be looking for their replacement rather quickly.

Unfortunately that his not a true correlation. Just because one has earned the Swimming MB does not mean they are a strong swimmer. (and vice-versa) Or they can take the advice my Mother gave me. If you have the knowledge you can always save someone's life, if you have the certificate you can do the same thing, but while you stand on the dock watching, everyone else will be in the water having a good time. I did not get my certification because I ended up 10 yards short on my mile swim.

Not only would my parents be in jail, they could have gotten me on child abuse, for spanking them, neglect for putting them in time-out and if they didn't get home on time from roaming the neighborhood, they didn't get supper served and they had to make their own. They never got an allowance and were denied things on a regular basis while shopping in stores. They were ignored when they did their temper tantrums and passed out in public. The cycle of abuse continues. My children are raising their children the same way. As a matter of fact both my daughters one a college graduate the other a college dropout (4.0 valedictorian of her high school class full-ride scholarship) are both stay at home moms that are planning on home schooling for their children. Both seem to be hung up in the good old days.... Neither of them think they are wasting their potential in life as stay at home moms. Only one of the two, however, has chosen to live "off the grid".