Stosh

As a kid I read the paper pretty faithfully every day. I soon learned to stay away from the opinion page because someone's opinion wasn't really news. It was just their opinionated slant on spinning the news. Today I'm down to sticking with the comics, obits and want ads, which fortunately I can get off the internet. The newspapers aren't making any money off me today and that pretty much the case for most news outlets on the internet and television. Everything ioday is just opinions, not the facts as they have happened.

So, how many people know the story behind why Hiram Ulysses Grant ended up Ulysses S. Grant?

Maybe we should include text-speak too Valley Speak is a bit passe, but no one can beat Ebonics.

Well, we don't know if it's true unless we are using the media now as the judicial system. I must have missed that memo.

Welcome to the 21st Century Journalism. People Magazine and National Inquirer used to be the epitome of junk journalism. Not that they have improved over time, but the rest of the media outlets have pretty much dropped down to their level of profits over truth.

The CC might be the unit leader, but then under the management model, s/he has no contact with the boys other than as an adjunct ASM. Otherwise, the CC becomes the SM and the SM is not needed. Or the CC takes over as "SM" and the "SM" is just another ASM. Classic example of Ivory Tower set up.

Sumping is the process of separating the food particles from the food liquids. The liquids are disposed of as in a cat hole process and the food particles are either burned in a fire or packed out. One cannot effectively dispose of soups and stews in a fire because of all the excess liquids that would reduce the fire's potential.

A good CC and Committee can be an excellent safety net of support for the SM/ASM team or they can be a real pain in the butt that stymies the effectiveness of the boys in accomplishing what they want out of their program. People who have their own agendas pretty much ignore org charts and such and kinda just do things their own way. They'll be the ones that are always finding fault and problems with everything rather than finding opportunities and solutions. It happens all the time and they are the last to see it themselves.

First of all welcome to the forum. You should do well, your first post is very impressive, well done on the handbook!

Yeah, we've always done double duty. If we have the wood, we filter and boil, otherwise we filter and purify. No matter what I do, food and water on any trek is of major importance to me. The boy in my reference was sick 2 weeks after we got back. The doctors had no idea what was going on with him at that point. Then after a massive amount of tests one of the doctors that was called in for brain-storming consultation simply asked, "Where were you two weeks ago?" The parents said, "BWCA". Doctor said, "Giardia" and walked out of the room. Yep, he was right. That doctor spent many weekends in the woods and knew what was up.

It is my opinion that the CC doesn't need to be the WB person in the troop. What is taught in SM/ASM position training will do the same thing. The CC needs to understand what the role of the SM is so he can coordinate the adult leaders to assist him in his service to the boys. The relationship between the CC and SM/CM sets the tone as to the success of the unit If for whatever reason this is a problem area, the program for the boys will suffer. The CC and committee has the SM/CM's back. If they don't, then the SM/CM's have to watch their own backs and the boys are relegated to 2nd place. In my first troop as SM I had an excellent CC who worked well with me and we did some great things. 5 boys to 25 boys in 2 years time. Well, the CC stepped down and the new CC wanted things different and within 3 months I was out of there, the ASM had to step up, lasted about a year and after a couple of more SM's they are down to about 6-7 boys again. One has to remember how much distance there is between the boys and the CC. Their point of contact is the SM, not the CC and if the CC steps in and expects things to be different, they will be, kinda like the SPL stepping in and running the patrols. The PL's become obsolete very quickly. One can spend an enormous amount of time drawing up the ideal org chart for the program, but regardless of what one has on paper, when all is said and done, if the politics are more important than the boys, the structure is going to collapse like a house of cards.

@ I don't think that what your boys got in the back country was Giardia. It takes two weeks of incubation in the body and you're not just down for two days. Sounds like your boys might have gotten something in the food, not water. At the BWCA, we were EXTREMELY diligent with the water purification. We filtered and then boiled. Unfortunately one of the boys went snorkeling. Two weeks later he was in the hospital. He was one sick puppy. Every time he went into the bathroom he didn't know whether to sit down or stand up. In a week's time of antibiotics he went from 175# to 135# and was on IV's for most of the time. Improperly processed water is not a battle one wishes to deal with. I didn't know you could lose 40# of water out of your system like that. Scary stuff. If I were to guess on your boys, either the soap wasn't rinsed properly, cross contamination in food preparation or some food went bad on you. Any of these will give a brief illness like the one you describe. No matter what it was, training in safe food handling is not a T-FC requirement that is to be glossed over. My #1 rule, safety first and if an adult doesn't feel comfortable about the way the boys are handling food and cleanup, they have a responsibility to step in and correct it on the spot.

In many respects we are very neglectful of our non-direct contact with boys leaders. How many people have been position trained as a Committee Treasurer? How many ASM and ACM leaders have been trained to be SM and CM, but not good ASM or ACM? What does an Advancement MC do? So what training is being provided? NONE? Yep. Unless the unit does it on their own, it doesn't get done. So, you want me to be the committee treasurer when I've only been given MC training? How's that working out for you? Oh, here's the last treasurer's pile of papers. We have no idea what he/she did, but you'll need to go to the bank and resign the signature card there. While you're there, you'll need to pick up some more checks. We can't find the checkbook anywhere." Now, that's a training program to be proud of. I don't care what publication you are reading from, as adults we do a really poor job of taking care of the people we have and an embarrassing job of helping the new ones come on board. And then we have the nerve to sit around and wonder why we can't get other people to step up and help out? I don't

1) Scrape dishes as clean as possible into the sump. Yes, there is a proper way of doing that besides dumping in the garbage and having it leak food smells in the camp to attract animals. 2) Wash dishes in hot soapy water. This does not need to have 500 people use the same small pan of wash water. If it gets filled with food scraps because the boys didn't do #1 correctly. Switch it out with clean wash water. A small patrol shouldn't have a problem with this, but those units that operate under a troop-method approach will find it necessary to switch out wash water quite a few times before getting dishes for 40 boys cleaned. 3) Rinse off the soap only from the cleaned dishes in cold sanitized water to remove the soap. 4) Dip in scalding hot water to heat up the dishes to dry faster. 5) Air dry on a rack or in a mesh bag. When I backpack I carry a spoon and a large tin cup. 1) Eat every little bit of food served. Rinse with a splash of water from canteen or other water source 2) Fill with water and put water purification in the cup and put in spoon. Let sit for an hour. Dump the water into your water bottle or drink.

Barry was trying to differentiate between adults not taking care of those they are responsible for as I would direct the PL to do for his boys. Well, I don't think we do very well in taking care of our adults. We expect them to step up and take on a job they know nothing about and the younger generation I don't think wants to take the time to figure it out as we had to along the way. In a success/failure culture we live in that's more than just taking on a job of "helping out with the unit". It's a big commitment and the training that is provided by National is rather weak in getting a decent program going or maintained. It's kinda like feeding the lambs to the wolves kinda thingy. I don't mind being a scout leader, I've done the Cub stuff as a MC and Webelos DL, I've done the Boy Scout stuff as ASM and SM, I've done the Venturing/Explorer stuff as a unit organizer and Crew Advisor. I've done the UC thing which allows me to see beyond a myopic version of just my world. So one can ask me to do anything and I'd have a pretty good idea what to do. I turn to one of my parents and say, "Hey, do you want to head up this unit as a CM or SM or CA?" Yep, they're going to be all over that like ugly on a monkey. NOT! They're going to flat out say, "No way!" Well we'll give you a weekend of training. Sure, that great, sign me up! NOT! They're going to look at me and say, "You've got 30+ years at this, you do it." End of discussion. I was 7 years as MC watching how things worked before I became a Webelos DL. I was 13 years as ASM watching how things worked before I became a SM, I organized 42 units of Exploring before I took on CA of one of them. So where's the ACM in all of this? Well we didn't need one. So who's watching and learning along the way? So where's the ASM in all this? Well we have them so busy with other stuff. So who's watching and learning along the way? We have dysfunctional committees, Lone Ranger CC's people not trained for this own position rather than second training for a possible move "up" in the unit's needs. So ask yourself how many ACM's and ASM's have done an activity from scratch to learn what a CM or SM does? I'll be out of town next month, Mr. ACM, you've got the Pack meeting to cover for me. Thanks. Let me know what you need help on. I'll be out of town next month Mr ASM, you've got the camporee to cover for me. Thanks. Let me know what you need help on. @@Eagledad This is how the adults take care of their people and some supplementary help from National along these lines would be helpful. Like I said, my ASM's have all been trained to take over the unit if necessary. It's called "grooming your replacement". If you ever want to be doing something else, you had better have someone to take over. A friend of my rocketed up in his job and within a few years had a pretty cushy job. I asked him how he did it. He said it was simple. Always have someone else trained in your job so they can take over when an opportunity for you to move up comes along. If you're too important and no one can do your job, you'll be passed over. How many training programs put out by the BSA promote this in their training sessions?

In an attempt to help more people than just those in one's own unit, it would be better if the adults were trained on a larger scale to fit into units rather than relying on individual units to try and figure it out on their own. I've already started and don't seem to have much of this problem in my unit so I'm happy, but it doesn't sound like others are. A scout is helpful to more than just those he/she has a vested interest in. It's rather stupid to train adults only to have the individual units un-train them and correct the problems as they go. If National wants all their leaders trained, one might want to consider that training important enough to do it right the first time.

Most definitely!

What people fail to realize is that people today are very mobile. Pack A is a 5 minute drive and has a waning corps of volunteers. They want me to step up. Well, I'm not going to pay and work to have my kid entertained. That's why I pay for him to go. So, that group folds. No problem Pack B is a 10 minute drive and has a few more dedicated volunteers so I don't have to lift a finger. When this Pack folds, there's always Pack C that's 15 minutes down the road. Once I run out of Packs and Troops, there's always the YMCA and Boys and Girls Club just down the street. A world of community working together has been replaced by a generation of: "What's in it for me and my kid?" If it isn't worth it, we'll find something that is.

1) Welcome to the world of unit politics. 2) There are no rules except what people make up as they go along. 3) Everyone thinks their ideas are the best and everyone needs to follow them. 4) There really is no "leadership" just egocentric agendas (what @@blw2 calls posturing) 5) Regardless of who wins, the boys always lose. 6) One just has to remember, it's a game that has no end.

Absolutely no difference. Now if Council/District would teach their adults appropriate leadership we wouldn't be having this discussion. Seriously no one will step up to take on CM? That's like having a patrol where no one wants to step up at be PL unless forced and one can't force adults, they're volunteers is the excuse.

In our area (1960's as well) it was a program known as Safety Patrol and was opened to both boys and girls, usually 8th graders who would monitor and help younger kids safely cross the streets around the school. I somehow had the feeling that I was kinda set up because I was picked but I had two intersections to monitor a block apart. The kids complained because they had to wait for me to take a group down to the next block to cross there and return for the next group. After about a week of that mess turned in my badge and belt and went back to study hall.

Okay, I'm kinda confused. Yes, it's nice, but where does it say any position in scouting expects the person leaving to find and train their replacement? That's the job of the COR who in many cases is not doing their job. So quit feeling guilty because someone else dropped the ball. Yes, it's nice to leave a legacy but where does all this guilt tripping come from? A CM steps up, does his/her best, runs a nice program and walks away feeling guilty because no one stepped up to replace them? I'd rather give the CM a plaque saying the Pack appreciated all that they did for the Pack. Instead we dump them with guilt by COR and other leaders not stepping up and doing their job of finding a replacement. With an attitude like that coming from the adult "leadership" of the pack, I would say, walk away, you did a great job, it's time to move on and if the pack folds because of a lack of adult leadership doing their jobs, then there's nothing to feel guilty about.

Our area has crossing guards but they are all adults, most retired people with a lawn chair and a stop sign.