Stosh

Paper and pencil. That's not a snarky answer, that is what we do. There are forms that get printed out that are used, but for the most part, loose-leaf notebooks rule in the troop.

Rule #2: Look and act like a scout. If the activity forbids a scout to wear his uniform, then it's not an activity acceptable for scouts to be doing. Political rally? Do i t on your own dime, it's not part of the scout program, doing it won't get you scout credit, and in light of today's world, there are a ton of other things more important and fun to be doing anyway. Selling used cars? C'm on, really? I have a chance to be out in the woods or in town selling cars? If I could wear my BSA uniform at everything I do in life, I'd be a happy camper, I'd have no problems with the law, and if they wanted to criticize me for my ethics, morals, or biases, they can come out into the woods and find me to yell at me.

Seriously??? 12 pages??? Is that the best we've got? PDF Format, no links anywhere. This is old web tech at its best.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/nature-and-environment/at-home-schooling-zmaz80jazraw.aspx It's hard to believe that this was written 35 years ago and is still relevant today. My how the more things change the more they stay the same.

If a boy is doing community service for BSA advancement or MB credit and can't be wearing the uniform, he shouldn't be doing the project in the first place. If it isn't good enough for BSA credit find something else to do. 1) either there is an inherent honesty issue underlying why one can and can't wear the uniform. 2) there might be a politically correct hypocrisy going on here about the uniform. or 3) BSA is going to be faced with an embarrassing PR issue it has to try to cover up. So what's the message BSA is promoting with it's uniform policy?

@ That's my point exactly. If BSA is going to be the servant leadership guru's one would think that they would be able to provide a dozen links for a SM to reference in a situation like this. Sure the parents are going to help but that doesn't give the SM a basic understanding of the situation he/she is up against. The resources don't have to be BSA, heck, one of the references might even be Wikipedia (gag, wretch), but if it helps, so be it. It wouldn't take much on the part of BSA to have those references linked into it's non-existent resource center for scouters and scouts to reference. Let's face it, these situations are common enough in scouting that BSA should have recognized it as part of troop life in a lot of troops and reacted by now.

It's better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission. If he's proud of his uniform, wear it.

LOL.... maybe?

So a boy shows up from Webelos cross-over and the parents approach the SM and inform him/her that their boy is autistic. While that is all well and good, what skills does the SM have other than looking up autism on Google and finding out there are millions of variations to consider. The parents reassure you they will be there 24/7, but even they have to sleep sometime. How is this going to impact the troop? How will things have to be rearranged to make it work? So, what does BSA have to support a SM in this situation? Last time I checked it was NADA. Okay, the boy is ADD, the next boy is ADHD, the next boy is deaf, the next boy has Asperger's, and the list goes on and on. And that doesn't even begin to cover the old run-of-the-mill brat that occasionally comes on the scene for a while. Sometimes maturity can make a difference in the SM, sometimes experience especially if the SM has had a special needs child of his own. But one can't always expect that from every SM out there.

How many SM's are knowledgeable about whitewater rafting? How many troops take whitewater rafting trips? How does this work? There's got to be a balance out there somewhere where the SM can help the boys push the envelop without having to be totally responsible for the process. That would mean that the SM whose only experience in camping is his basic training in BSA material shouldn't be doing much more than the basic plop camping.

I don't see a problem with this situation at all.... when it comes to the adults, anyway. It's time for the boys to decide what they want to do about neckers.

Wear it... Just my opinion. BSA, your troop, and your son can all benefit from the recognition of his work.

For some the role of the adults is to maintain the overall "vision" of the program for the boys. Others like me view the role of the adults as resources for opportunities. I am constantly talking about previous treks, trips, adventures my boys have gone on in the past. I create many opportunities for the boys to consider. about 90% go unnoticed, but a few get traction. If the boys want to canoe, No problem. Boys want to whitewater kayak, no problem. Boys want to bike ride/trek, no problem, The boys want to backpack Yellowstone, no problem. Boys want to rock climb or spelunk, Sorry, I don't do caves and the second rung on the ladder is my limit. I've been trained in rescues from heights and depths so I can do it in an emergency situation, but I'm never going to do it for "fun". Here's where the secondary, temporary, expertise can step in and work with the boys. @@DuctTape is on the money with this training is not necessarily for just scouters, but more importantly for the boys to gain experience. If the SM gains from it, so be it, but that's not the main objective. It's important to build a reservoir of experience among the boys and constantly reinforce it because the older boys will be aging out and need to pass on that information to the next generation of scouts. It's a bit like service projects the boys plan. They might need to do a dozen of them, but when the time comes for the Eagle Project, it's just another walk in the park woods. So why train adults? How can they provide opportunities for the boys on something they know nothing at all about?

@@JoeBob And so, how is this better than the droning PowerPoint presenter at the council office? Maybe if all these resources are out there, BSA can start working on making these things readily available to scouters to consider when they want to move their troops to the next level. Instead all we get is silence. Web site with links to say, canoeing adventures, hiking adventures, etc. all in one place that BSA has vetted as worthwhile. Kind of a "cut to the chase" kind of approach. BSA used to promote good literature for the boys to read, maybe they need to get back into the business of promoting good websites for scouters to learn.

Along with being overly trained in areas that some scouters don't need, i.e. review of skills every other year at a cost to the participants or units, we have the under trained scouters that have taken everything BSA has to offer and it's not enough. So where's the balance for BSA to consider. Presently if someone in BSA doesn't have the skills to teach the welding MB, outside expertise is solicited by the units and/or council to fulfill that need for the boys. This is great, but what about the solicitations for the adults to fulfill the need for specific training? As @ points out a lot of HA treks have rangers or other experts that re embedded in the crews to assist with appropriate knowledge and safety. Well, as I mentioned before, we have MBC's that are not fully registered but trained (YPT) resources for scouts to get their MB's filled out. What about some kind of MBC's/Resource/Trainers/Rangers for Scouters who want their boys to have HA experience but can't do it themselves due to lack of training or experience? Scenario #1: My troop wants to go to BWCA, I've never been there before. Old Joe SM who used to be with a troop in the council is loaded with experience. He's on the Basic Underlying Lower Level Systematic High Intensive Training List (You can work that acronym out for yourself). So Old Joe comes in once a month for a year and trains your troop how to get ready, prepare, and execute a trip to the BWCA. Then as a treat for Old Joe, he goes along at the unit's expense to make sure all the little details are covered. It is important that the boys pay particular attention to everything so that in a couple of years they can do this on their own because Old Joe isn't going to be around forever. Scenario #2: My troop wants to go on the RAGBRAI Bicycle trek across Iowa. The boys all know how to bike but his is a really big endeavor that will have about 8,000 other people in the group. Bill Businessman owns Billy's Bicycle Boutique and has a ton of knowledge and expertise on such things because he goes every year anyway. His name is on the Basic Underlying Lower.... List as well. He's registered like a MBC and has YPT training to work with the boys. So, will this type of "program" work to handle the High Adventure end of "training" or lack thereof? I as SM would a bit more comfortable offering up such HA activities to the boys if I knew I had resources that would be able to temporarily fill in and work with the troop to see to it that such things happened for the boys. Maybe if such resources were there, the need for specialized specific training of scouters wouldn't be necessary? Just thinking out loud.

@@eagle77 And yet you relied on others who had the expertise to fill in the gaps. As I mentioned my brother the bus driver (BSA ASM from another council) went with groups that had NO EXPERIENCE and were generally college students out on a lark. The outfitters basically were paid babysitters who kept them out of trouble. Yes, if one does not have the experience and training but has the heart to go, then stick with the professionals and rely on their experience whether they be BSA outfitters like NT, Sea Base or Philmont. If you are going to go the Yellowstone or Black Hills backcountry, then you are on your own. By the way, the cost of a NT expedition is twice the price we paid by doing it ourselves. One always has to take into consideration that experience comes at a cost. As a matter of fact, our BWCA trek of 9 days cost considerably less than BSA summer camp. Gas to get there, food, entry permits, and boat registration. The troop I was with at the time was adult-led so none of the boys learned how to do it for another troop should they ever become SM's themselves.

Then there's the problem of teaching a class on how to conduct High Adventure. Is there going to be a class on high adventure whitewater canoeing? Then another on BWCA lake canoeing and portaging? Then another on backpacking Philmont? Then there's the RAGBRAI bike ride across Iowa trip. Then.... Where does it begin and where does it end. My training for BWCA? I had my brother take me. He was a charter bud driver and 2-3 times a summer he would get an opportunity to go up to BWCA with a group. The outfitters furnished everything including how to pack and what to take. He took a bunch of us scouters up to BWCA and showed us the ropes. It was all we needed to get ready for a BWCA trek and we took along another troop to show them the ropes too. They were convinced we were seasoned pros. It doesn't take but one outing to learn a lot from those who know what they're doing. How does one put that into a curriculum? I haven't the foggiest idea. My Dutch Oven skills come from doing the biddy hen, coffee klatch recipe exchange gatherings where we learned new skill and techniques for the next outing. If I have to sit through another hamburger cooked in an orange peal or a bacon and egg breakfast made in a paper bag, I'm gonna kill myself. Of course lashing a bridge to nowhere is always the highlight of my weekend high adventure. High Adventure? Summer camp, for sure. As a SM of a boy-led troop, that has to be the most boring week of my life. The young boys love it or I wouldn't do it. Last year I took SM fundamentals just to beat the boredom. It didn't work. So what's on the agenda for next week's summer camp? I'm taking my kayak and hopefully the waterfront people can train me in sea kayaking and I can take the boys to the Apostle Islands for HA. I'm not taking the boys unless I know I can teach them before we leave. It's too bad it takes that much effort on the part of the SM to work out his own training because BSA has nothing to offer at a higher level of scouting. But that shouldn't be a big problem, boys drop out before they get a chance at HA anyway. Or do they drop out because the SM's can't offer them HA. Can't remember which excuse it is....

Okay, the company might be a great place to work, but do you wish to put up with these people as co-workers. Usually the interview process involves those mostly likely in contact with the new hire. I worked for a really good company but the people in my department were not the cream of the crop.

Bummer, now I don't know what to do!

If the Boy Scout motto is "Be Prepared", one must ask, prepared for what? Sure we joke about the Zombie attacks and collapse of civilization as we know it. It makes good press and Hollywood makes a lucrative heyday out of it. So my kid brother put out on facebook that the power at his place was out for 18 hours and his c-pap machine wouldn't work. He wasn't prepared. He's been outdoors as much as I have and has just about as many years of scouting as I have. But still he wasn't prepared. So no more gasoline, everyone prepared to ride a bike or walk? Who does enough gardening and knows enough about native plants in their area to keep from starving to death. Cant sew a patch on a shirt? How does one boil water when there's no gas or electricity? So, let me get this straight. Food, water, clothing and shelter. It would be rather fortuitous to Be Prepared to provide all of that in an emergency situation. So, with that in mind. How's that STEM stuff working out for you?

I'm laid off and a few months short of retiring. Right now I'm drawing unemployment until that runs out. I have to seek 4 jobs/week to keep the payments flowing. Thanks for the heads up, I'll be sure to get it on my resume right away.

This is the same for any organization. When I was n the ministry, a regional administrator could not dump a church, but he pastors can come and go on a whim. Life is a lot easier once one realizes that. Same for CO's They stick around, volunteers are mobile enough to send on their way anytime.

Obviously the program emphasis will falter a bit if the participants don't have food, water, clothing and shelter. While that might sound a bit sarcastic, it is not meant to be. One needs to cover the basics of an environment that is NOT part of the normal life-style of most Americans today. I have a hobby farm, but I don't live in the woods or in a cave. But I have camped in the woods and in a cave on occasion. Unless we can assure a basic understanding of food, water, clothing and shelter for people who we are responsible for, the "program" isn't of much use. Today I see a real emphasis on the program and the basics are secondary which to me leaves the door wide open for Cheshire lawyers lining up.

Or... one could offer extended training in areas of interests to the scouters, i.e. Adult Merit Badges where the subject could be picked by the person wanting the training. That way one would at least have interested participants in the audience.

Let's assume for the moment that the SM's, et. al., in the program are all reasonably cautious people. They are young parents of boys that are just starting Boy Scouts. That would put them about early to mid-30's. If by that point they aren't really the outdoorsy type, they aren't going to become one anytime soon unless they are really into a lifestyle change. But BSA is bound and determined to give them training, which is a good thing. YPT - well we haven't gotten to the woods yet, but we're just starting. If I remember correctly it was the Webelos overnight and SM fundamentals that taught a bit about cooking using stoves. Well, we've cooked on stoves before at home, no problem they might be able to figure it out. A propane stove one has for the troop works just like the propane stove in the RV motorhome/trailer. At least plop camping is basically covered. After teaching/observing T-FC, one has a pretty good idea of how to take care of oneself in the woods. At least if they paid attention. For the most part the really good scouters should be able to get the boys to summer camp where the staff and mess hall take over, the camporees, a bit more challenging, but pretty much plop camping, and a high adventure to a state park to plop by oneself. If a SM wishes to go beyond that, i.e. Dutch oven/campfire cooking, canoeing, backpacking, hiking, etc. the scouter has to learn that on his/her own or rely on such resources as Northern Tier, Philmont and Sea Base. Other outfitters can cover some of the other outings along the way, but the further one gets from KOA plop camping, the more one has to train on their own. I believe one of the major reasons we are less adventurous today than years past is because the adults are no longer comfortable with either the outdoors, taking youth into the outdoors and cutting the apron strings of civilization. Why? Go back and read the first line of this post. The people who make the news are those that don't fit that description, yet want to provide the next step for their boys and there's the rub. Where does BSA provide any training in anything beyond KOA with a Boy Scout Theme? I haven't seen the most recent curriculum for current training, but I can assure you, NONE of it was of any value to me. I had been cooking on open campfires long before I even joined Scouting as a boy. My canoeing, hiking, Dutch oven, etc. are all things I learned along the way, either by watching others or by experimenting on my own. Before I go on an extended hike with the boys, I jerk my own meat and dehydrate the rest of the food. Very little from the grocery store is in my backpack and what is has been repackaged to protect it. So my new ASM's, parents, et. al. are given a lot of slack for not wanting to get involved. If they are at all intelligent people they will be wary of what their limits are and the only criteria I use for selecting ASM's is their willingness to learn. My current ASM is also the district commissioner who specifically asked to be my ASM so she could learn about the Boy-Led, Patrol-Method style of troop organization I use. She also happens to be my age and works extensively in the American Heritage Girls program as well. She wants to learn. That's all I need to know. How many people do we have as scouters who don't make that qualification? Especially those troops with untrained SM? Besides the basic training given to all adult leaders today, including WB and U of S. there should be extensive training going on weekly, if not monthly. Our councils are filled with experienced scouters that could share their knowledge and reduce the learning curve of our new scouters. More experienced scouters could be available to share a knowledge library where maybe there be a process set up to have kind of a MB program for SM's I want to do a HA for my troop so I seek out the HA Organization AMB (Adult Merit Badge) counselor for further training. I want to do a white-water canoe trip, so I seek out the White-water AMB counselor, etc. Maybe there ought to be CampMasters, retired SM's that are available to be the second in 2-deep that when the boys are doing their thing, the CampMasters could be doing further training with the SM's. I spend the whole week at camp reading books, playing with lashing projects, cooking really well for myself, etc when all that time I could be training other SM's on hundreds of different topics. I'm sure there are others just like me in every council. The last time I was asked to do a seminar they wanted me to come in and do a presentation for WB. They wanted the fire-starting, wood tools portion covered. They were going to give me one hour. I said no unless they gave me two hours. I covered the tools, the different types of woods, fire-starting with various mediums, etc. and before everyone left they all knew a lot more about fire-starting/tools and a few hit the nail on the head when they further commented that they were NOW MORE CONFIDENT about the subject than they had been before. We teach skills, but do we teach confidence in those skills? If not, the training is a waste of time.