Stosh

I think the use of the swear jar is a cutsie distraction. Okay the kid swears. Strike One He owes a buck and refuses to pay up. Strike Two... so what is Strike Three and who enforces it. Kick the kid out for how long for swearing one time? Does the price go up if the kid is rich? What if the kid comes from a poor family who can just barely cover the cost of going in the first place. Gonna dump him? The situation needs to be enforceable on all levels and I see this whole process just becoming an even bigger headache than just swearing. I have a singular solution that I use and it curtails inappropriate language quickly. A boy/adult comes up to me and asks a question but if it includes language I don't appreciate, I get up and leave. Do this often enough and in order to get an answer, they need to leave out the bad language. If I even over-hear others swearing, I put distance between myself and the conversation. No big scene, just leave the area. They'll figure it out eventually and if they want me around, they will cease and desist. A boy comes up to me and says he's having trouble with the *#P@&$^ gas stove. I simply get up and walk away without saying a word. Then they ask me why I didn't answer. I tell them flat out, I quit listening when the language became discourteous for polite company. Again as I said before, DISTANCE is your ally. No big scene, no punishment, nothing, just walk away. They will soon figure it out. If not when it comes time for the &%#&% SMC, the SM might just keep walking away instead of scheduling a time for the meeting. Then again, if the language turns south, it might be difficult to finish it too if the SM keeps walking away. Same holds true for the SPL and PL's. If they stick around and listen to this discourteous language, are they not condoning the practice? I've never had this problem in any of my troops I have served because I never listen to the conversations of bad language. By the way, I do this even in places other than scout activities. Just isn't worth my piece of mind to put up with it.

There are certain trees that if you stand next to them they amplify the cell signals, Red Oak is one of them and Jack Pine the other.

Webelos III, part deux Sometimes I wonder if parents really want their kids to grow up or just stay their lil' darlings forever, or at least until they are 45 and bored with living in the basement.. I have flat out told some of my parents, "If you don't want your son to grow up, don't send him to my troop because I'm going to do everything in my power to get him ready for this 18th birthday.

One can't win them all, but the ones that you do win are priceless. Enjoy!

First of all @@Waterplant, welcome to the forums. You will get a lot of comments off of this issue I'm sure because a lot of it has to do with how a lot of troops run their program. First of all, I'll work backwards starting with the most important issue first. You have an adult-led program. It would appear that they run everything and the one boy knows it and caters to it because he's one of the good-old-boys adults. This is why he feels he doesn't need to listen to anything the other boys are doing. Distance is important. The boys need to agree to separate themselves from the adults physically. At troop meetings, the adults sit in the back of the room, out of the way and they do so quietly. This is the BOY Scouts, and they need to be working the program, not the adults. Once the adults realize they have relegated to a lesser important position many of the hanger-ons will become bored and find more adult things to be doing. Enlist the help of the SM to assist you in making this transition. Make sure you have clear cut patrols that operate independently as well. If adults want to hover over everything the boys are doing, they will have to split up. A little divide and conquer kind of thing. So once distance is established and the boys agree with it the swearing can be dealt with among the boys and if the adults are far enough away one doesn't need to listen to that either. Distance is your friend. Once these "boundaries" are established, a lot of what you are finding a problem will go away or at least go far enough away that it won't be necessary to deal with it. So, what happens if the adults don't agree with it? Well, then you will know immediately that you are never going to solve any of these problems because the adults are running the show and have no intention of making any changes. It's time to move to another troop at that point. However, if SM and even a few of the boys sign on to change then the process can begin. Separate the boys who want to run their own show from the boys that don't. Those that do, follow the distancing as described above. Once the boy-led part of the program becomes a better option for the boys, they will naturally migrate over to boy-led. So, just for discussion sake, most of the boys think this is a good idea. The SM agrees to give it a try. The first campout with the new set up, patrols break off and independently do their own programs. The one or two boys who didn't sign on to the new change can stay with the adults. The problems for the patrols putting up with them goes away when they go away. Once these few reallize it isn't much fun being a lone scout in the troop, they will either join up with their buddies or stay lonely. It's there choice. By the way. Be adamant about the distance thing. Make sure the adults will be TOTALLY separated from the patrols. The patrols will cook only for the patrols and the boys will camp/tent separately as well. When adults (other than the SM ally) ask why this is being done, lay it out there honestly. Some of the boys feel the bad language to be a problem and they don't want to be around it anymore, kinda like smoking. A lot of people do it, but we prefer they go somewhere else to do it. Sounds like some of the others are putting down some good ideas as well, but if it was me, I'd start with the boy-led, patrol-method setup with distancing the boys from the adults as the major hurdle to tackle first. A lot of the other issues will simply go away once that's done.

Always check the water levels before you leave. http://waterdata.usgs.gov/mi/nwis/rt There are sites for all the states.

Well, when it comes to using a large-bear artillery device, I'll stick with anything that makes a loud noise. I learned the fire-cracker trick from the Canadian fishing resort owner. If anyone knows how to run off a bear, it's these guys.

One has to be careful more with the area than the bears. Areas of large human traffic will associate human scent as a draw. Where there's humans, there's food. Areas of minimal human traffic, human scent will deter the animals. I have camped in bear country all my life and found that knowing the area and knowing the bears will dictate what one takes as scented or non-scented precautions. I have not been all that concerned about what is not-scented, but I do use baking soda as @@JoeBob mentions. I rely on other methods of repelling bears other than not attracting them to the site. It might be wise this time of year to buy up your yearly supply of bear repellent from the local fireworks tent.

I don't see why you wold find it "amusing" they are probably the worst store in the country for marking the pricing on the products or even the shelving....

Once a year our troop did a city-wide newspaper pickup that brought in 2-cents per ton. Now that won't even pay for the gas to go collect it. My city now does 100% recycling. I have two 60 gal garbage cans, one for garbage, one for recycling. The recycling goes out every two weeks and the garbage gets set out about once ever 6-7 weeks. Yard waste is dropped off and turned into mulch and compost by the city. Residents can pick that up for free. The city has a waste disposal site that looks more like a park than a dump and 95% of the garbage is incinerated for electricity. Once a month all electronics can be dropped off for free, otherwise there's a fee. Medicines and hazardous waste (motor oil, paints, herbicides, etc,) is collected separately at various convenient sites once a month. Every non-profit in the area has staked out their aluminum can recycling and those who make the effort do contribute, but it's far easier just to toss it into the city recycle process. Recycling for us would be a total waste of time and effort.

Until you posted this, I never even thought of this river. My wife kayaks all over the state of Wisconsin with 2-3 different groups. None of them ever mention a trip down the Wisconsin River. I don't think she's even been on it. My kayak is a used kayak from a rental outfit along that stretch of river and I know once I bought it it has never done a Wisconsin River trip since. It's probably a good river for newbies. Not as scenic as some of those in Northern Wisconsin, but should be a good float for those starting out. I do know it has lots of sandbars for camping along the way. During times of higher water, camping is limited.

I haven't weighed in on this so I'll give my 2-cents worth on the subject. First of all your poll does not include the choice I would have made. The PL, who is supposed to be taking care of his boys, makes decisions in the best interest and welfare of his boys. It is obvious you have an adult-led troop. That will never really move off the bubble until someone rolls up their sleeves and makes the changes. It takes a ton of effort to make a troop a boy-led unit, but only a few minutes to turn it back into an adult-led program. It works kinda like trust, years to build, seconds to destroy. So, where does one begin? With your leadership. If a boy is going to lead he had better get out front and do so. Step up and organize the boys as prescribed by the BSA program. Instruct the boys that sitting around doing nothing is not a really good idea. Work together as a team of boys to take away the adult's ability to say no without looking foolish. (Every time an adult says, "Because I say so." is really admitting the are clueless to their rationale.) The other boys will only follow your lead if you do that which is necessary for their well-being. For example, if YOU think the troop should be boy-led and no one else does, then the decision is easy, time to find a new troop. But if the boys come together and want things to improve, then you have a chance to make a difference. This isn't something you're going to be able to do on your own. You'll need your buddies, maybe a sympathetic ASM or two, even the UC and DE might need to be pulled in down the road. Learn the BSA program and start following it. Insist on trained adults in the troop and make sure your boys are trained in leadership as well. It's not the easier of the two choices, but it may be the most rewarding.

There are many times as boys grow up that tragedy plays a part. I lost my best friend who died of encephalitis having been bitten by a mosquito while camping in a cabin in the middle of winter at a By Scout Camp. There is NO WAY one could have avoided it. He was an only child and his dad was a 1936 Eagle Scout, his mom is my God-mother. I still visit his grave to this day. My sympathies go out to the family, I know the pain they are going through. One never forgets and that is a good thing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-71-UK-BRITISH-SCOUTS-GOLD-SILVER-BRONZE-ARROW-SCOUT-LINK-Badge-SET-/271913331260?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f4f4c2a3c Thanks SSScout, it got me pointed correctly. How's this? EBay is not the epitome of correctness, but it's a start.

Every boy is different, but they all need attention, even if that attention is getting yelled at. Now with that being said, how much attention is he getting when he isn't goofing off? That's the kicker, especially when that attention is not the norm one gets from adults. This past week, we shared a site with another troop. The other SM commented about one of my boys being a loner with serious social problems. The boy is basically "spaced out" about 100% of the time. If asked, he'll do it, but it will take twice as long as any other boy so no one asks him if they want the job done quickly. After the other SM said something I showed him what the boy was capable of when he got some attention. The two of us walked over to where he was "not dong anything" and I asked him how his Small Boat SM was going. The other SM expected a shrug and a "I dunno", but instead the boy lit up and the three of us carried on a conversation for about 15 minutes. To top it off, the boy was the only one to walk away at the end of the week with all 5 MB's completed. Now with this boy I could be constantly "yelling at him" to pick up the pace and hold up his end of the deal. As a matter of fact I'm sure there are a lot of adults out there that do, but I'm not one of them. If one takes the time to actually get to know the boy they will find out that he plays the piano and is a karate black-belt. Out of the 10 MB's he's signed up for over the past two summer camps, he has a 100% completion. Now it may have taken him longer than anyone else in the class, but he did do the work. So is he a problem or not? If one were to vote on it I'm thinking the results would be a 50/50 tie. I kinda like the kid so I wouldn't count him as a problem in the troop. Just know that if you put him on the roster for retrieving food from the Commissary, be prepared to have a late meal. Maybe in a couple of years, he will mature a bit and some of that will naturally go away. If not, he's still a kid that would benefit from being a Scout. By the way his home situation is far from ideal.

Any time I speak to my scouts concerning anything which requires a rather private conversation I call it a SMC. He's acting up a bit, needs a bit of attention? SMC time. Homesick? SMC time. Something's bothering him? SMC time. I do rank advancement SCM and call them rank advancement SMS's. Having a conference about which MB's to take at summer camp, it's not approved in the book for rank advancement. The boys know the routine on that. The MB's at that summer camp tend to be a bit Eagle Mill style in approach. Not many boys can pull off 5 MB"s in a week including Cit in the World as one of them. With signed MB blue cards, there's not much that can be done. At the second summer camp with me he ended up with 2 partials, but the camp is a bit more serious about their MB's. I've been at both camps and know the routine of each so I'm not guessing at that. I was kinda thinking the same thing.

Welcome to the forum.

All my boys know that if they get a ride home for bad behavior, it's a one-way trip. They don't come back. No warnings, no threats, no second chances. Either you look and act like a scout or you're history. That's all part of the orientation chat on the 3 rules of the troop. Not many rules, but if you break them, there's no such thing as boy-led anymore for that scout, it's all adults at that point. I think that for this reason, I have never had to send a boy home. I might add, that once in the past year and a half with this new troop, I had to do the "sign's up" routine. When I did, you could have heard a pin drop. I don't think they ever want to see that again from me. They know that I do not treat them with rudeness and I don't tolerate rudeness very well.

I doubt it. The other troop is in another state, same council, same district, but at least an hour and a half trip each way. It does happen to be the only other patrol-method troop in the council, but not quite as boy-led. And yes they have the luxury of older boys where as we as a new start-up do not. The aside wasn't necessary I do have most of the full story. With only his troop and my troop the only boy-led patrol-method troops in the council/district, the example I am putting forward is for the benefit of the forum. The other SM and I have been friends for years. Because I left for camp when he got back, it is just a matter of time before I get his paperwork. Otherwise a courtesy call on my part will resolve a lot of this issue. Yes, it did kinda surprise me on some of his actions, but at this point I have only the scout's word as to what went on. I never make a decision based on only one side of any issue. A scout is courteous is my aside. Even friends don't always see eye-to-eye, but the chances of things working out are a lot easier.

Up until yesterday when he stepped down, he WAS the PL of our small troop (1 patrol). I have signed off on all of his requirements, but he can sign off on any of his patrol member's requirements. I have not been holding back on him either. He has more requirements filled than any other scout in the troop. I have been to the other camp where he attended with the other troop and I do believe the material I will be identified as instructed but not signed off as is the first year program of most summer camps. As long as no one has signed his book, I have recourse and yet in light of all of that, why would the other troop even consider a BOR? I just hope these adults haven't hyped up his expectations beyond what is allowed and is acceptable with BSA policy. In no way possible would I have ever considered doing a BOR for a boy registered with another troop unless it was a dual registration. I guess it's just a sticky wicket because the adults have gotten themselves embroiled in the process and that has never worked out well in the long run for any scout.

I wasn't particularly impressed with the idea that he went off with another troop without the courtesy of notifying me. But we are boy led and it didn't happen. I do have to deal with the consequences in either case, courtesy or not. He did not discuss any MB's with me other than those he was taking with our troop. Here's the problem: He has been at the scout rank now for over a year. He is just starting his second year of scouts, but he has hit and miss requirements done for T-FC. But with last year's summer camp, this year's double summer camp and a couple of MB days under his belt, he thinks he's done with 2nd class and has 17 MB's. Not bad for a scout starting his second year. He was the PL until last week when at camp they elected the new Webelos crossover boy to be the PL and he stepped down. By the way, this is the same boy who was at the latrine working on his knots out of the book and couldn't tie either the double half-hitch nor the taunt-line knots. He's also the boy who had a melt-down in the center of camp when he yelled at the top of his lungs that he didn't need a buddy and he was heading to the waterfront alone. His buddy got swimming MB and Small Boat MB anyway. This boy is under way too much pressure to succeed and it's getting to him. Lots of Eagles in his family. One of the pitfalls of a boy-led, patrol-method approach is it is difficult to curtail such energy in the process. At first it looks impressive, but in the long run it is quite harmful to the individual scout. This boy has has a lot of SMC's in the past few months and even then the communication is pretty much one sided.

When HE feels confident in tying the knot! I never tell my boys the "secret". When the boy hands me the knot and says, "Is this correct?" Then he's not confident in it. When he hands me the knot and says, "Here it is." Then he gets it checked off. By the way, sometimes I even put a wee bit of doubt in a boys mind to test him. "Are you sure? That doesn't look quite right." And the boy answers, "Yes, I'm sure." At that point, you know he knows his stuff.

I have not received any paperwork from the other SM, camp or seen the boy's handbook as yet. I guess I'll just have to sort through it when stuff comes through. Once and done is not part of my process for advancement. They demonstrate they know the skill. I had a classic example pop up at summer camp last week. We got hit with a storm and high winds which dumped tents and dining flies all over the place. The boys out there in the wind trying to retie wall tents and salvage what they could from the cooking areas was quite a challenge for 12 and 13 year old boys. We had just gone through tying up the tents when we first got there and the boys pretty much blew me off when I insisted on proper knots,. stakes and support. We lost 2 ridge poles and 3 uprights in the process. Fortunately the ground gave way or we could have had torn tents as well. The next morning the only tents and flies still standing were the in the adult area. I did notice later on that morning two of the boys were off by the latrine, had their books out and were practicing knots. Once and done never worked for me and I'm not passing on that legacy to my boys. The BOR, SMC, and Scout Spirit being signed off by another troop is another issue that will need to be addressed. For sure I would never sign off on any of those if the boy was a member of a different troop. if a boy was dual registered, there would be a discussion between the two SM's and agreed upon by them before signing by either of them.

It's the Neighborhood Commissioner's patch (Unit Commissioner today) with a 1968 on it. I have no idea why the date was added and why it is on the necker and not the sleeve.

Yeah, I'm just a bit unsure of how this all fits together and I don't want to screw it up on some technicality that will pop up at the worst possible time for the boy, like when he's putting in for Eagle and is one MB short that he took at some camp while attending with some other troop, etc. and the signatures are not all with their t's crossed and i's dotted. I don't want to end up some Eagle Scout's horror story.