Stosh

There's a couple of issues here. Why would people who like purple want to join a group that has people who like red or blue but not any other colors? And why would purple lovers expect the blue and red people to all of a sudden start liking purple just because they joined? One can respect and be courteous towards someone without having to be BFF with them. I have had many differing discussions with others over the years, but none of them have been those of my religion or denomination. For the most part they don't seem to be in a hurry to join my group either. We can still be friends and neither gets in the face of the other. Of course I'm not in a hurry to join their group either so with mutual courtesy and respect, we get along just fine.

If you like the color blue, join the color blue club. If you like the color red, join the color red club. And try to keep it in mind that neither club's members like the color purple even though you think they should and it would be best for everyone if they did.

A good turn daily? If I do one that takes a minute, do I get an hour in every two months? And how do I keep track of all those extra minutes so I don't lose any. It would be a shame to put in all those minutes and then not get credit for them. I would hate to be couple of minutes short and then lose my Eagle.

But having a program were one doesn't have to be exposed to offensive behavior is no longer a choice for scouts. So the choice discussion is not on the table anymore.

I concur. The service projects are not requirements, they are expectations. They may get credit for service hours, but will suffer heavily in the Scout Spirit section in my troop. Help other people at all times, doesn't make exceptions for when it is convenient.

There are those who join only to disrupt and destroy. It's called having a political agenda, or corporate espionage, or some such reason. They may also think that they gain credibility, too.

So now BSA is taking over and deciding who's a bona fide religious organization before the charter them? BSA seems to be becoming less and less trustworthy as time goes on. At least with the Lutheran Pioneers, Royal Rangers and Trail life, one knows where they stand whether you belive in it or not.. BSA has gotten a bit vague.

@@David CO Thanks David, I used the word associate rather than assembly so my comments didn't count....

My bad, must not be able to pick ones' friends anymore and hang out with them without the government stepping in.

Somehow it's human nature that we all have to touch the stove to see if all the hoopla is true.

So what you are saying is that it is unScoutlike to have a group to associate with that you feel comfortable with? BSA is thus promoting a hypocritical religious CO's can do that but no one else can? The Bill of Rights says one has the right to associate with those you wish to, but the courts today are saying that's not the case anymore. Nope, I'll do my Scoutlike civil duty and stay within the Bill of Rights allotted to me by the Constitution.

My parents were the same, I did the same for my kids and as a grandparent, I see my parents still working in the lives of my grandchildren. Entitled children grow up to be BFF's to their children, not their parents.

@@eagle77 I concur. We have enough intolerant people out there polarizing our society at ever turn. It's my way or the highway for most people today and they can't seem to allow for the live and let live people around them. This lock-step kind of thinking is what our Founding Fathers desperately tried to avoid with the Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion and Freedom of association which have now all come under attack. Unless one jumps up and down and cheers for someone's opinion on even this forum, it automatically means they are against us and they have to be indoctrinated to our way of thinking. No they don't! They can think anyway they wish and as long as they stay civil they can act any way they wish. Just don't expect me to be BFF and stick around to stand up for you when I walk away to do other things I think are more important than you and your antics. However, if you ask my opinion and then don't like what I believe in, just do me the courtesy of just walking away. I'll do the same for you, it's called the Golden Rule. Remember that? Been a while since that's been touted around.

It's no harder being a parent today than it has ever been in the past. And yes, every generation of parents generally figure it out. The only real "fault" one can find are those who abdicate being a parent and try to be a friend. Well, kids need parents, they have friends enough out in the world, they need a parent and those are harder to come by these days.

Seriously? Home school group CO's a unit. They pick a SM and other leaders they think are all heterosexual. Oops, lo and behold, one of the ASM's comes out of the closet. They start a witch hunt and soon the ASM is gone. A replacement comes forward who is the partner to the former ASM looking for a court case to punish the group. So the group folds, only to reappear later on with a new troop number and a few different people on the committee. What makes one think that this whole process can't be sidestepped over and over again by a secular group that wishes to have a say in their own organization? The school group can screen all scouts and leaders and assist them in finding them a scout troop without having to accept their membership. Heck, one can sit in a pew Sunday after Sunday and the congregation does not have to accept your request for membership. A simple vote and a negative outcome and that ends the discussion. I have seen that voting process happen in both religious as well as secular organizations.

@@fred johnson did we got a bit off topic? Point taken, but a lot of what is done in the MB's is great teaching opportunities for the troop as well. I had a group of ladies that did a lot of kayaking and other silent sports year around and their organizer asked me to come and do a seminar on maps and compasses. She felt the ladies would benefit with some knowledge considering the activities they do. Well, I went and purchased the work books for the seminar and one of the ladies piped up, "Hey, these are Boy Scout MB books!" They all agreed it was definitely worth the seminar just to have the book. Too bad our boys don't react the same way.

I teach my boys from day one that failure in Scouting is supposed to happen. They quickly learn that the best teacher is failure and one will learn quicker from mistakes than successes. I also teach them that the best servant leaders are those that know how to deal with failure because when someone needs help for a failure of their own, how can the leader help if they know nothing about having failed themselves? Because of this approach I never have to raise my voice, I never use sign's up or need to punish any of the boys. They just take their failures in stride. This past summer camp, I told my one boy who had zip off uniform pants to make sure he doesn't lose the legs when he switches over to shorts. Well, lo and behold, he lost one..... Like I didn't see that happening? Of course, but now the boy is mowing laws for the neighbors raising enough money to buy a new pair. He's my Webelos cross-over and was his first summer camp. He's a quick learn. A second boy came over frantically seeking help from the leaders at summer camp. A wind storm had blown through and knocked down all the wall tents and took out their dining fly as well. It was still raining and was getting dark fast. So I looked up from my game of dominoes and asked them why my tent was still standing? He sheepishly answered, because you probably tied the right knots. I then asked him if he wanted me to come over and teach knots again. He said, "Yes, please." I did and then went back to my game of dominoes. The next day the PL had everyone out tying the knots over and over again until they could do them not only in their sleep but also in the dark in the rain. As far as entitlement is concerned? Every boy in my troop is entitled to become a great servant leader in the world in which he lives.

Good article, see it all the time in modern parenting styles. Now that it has had a chance to develop inter-generationally, one is going to see more and more entitled parents with entitled children. That should be a hoot to observe.

I believe I answered the question.... As far as the quote, ya gotta bone up on you're Shakespeare.

Someone once said, "If by "we" you mean the BSA, it isn't "allowing the door to open to any of this type of behavior in scouting." The BSA has made clear that sexual activity and discussions of sexual activity are not permitted in Scouting." And, as nothing more than a general observation, the discussion goes on totally oblivious to that indicating that no one has even noticed.

Making a comment on an observation can not always assumed to be advocating anything. Me thinks the Lady doth.....

The point being that such activity must constantly be monitored. Not many "family" or Scouting values need such moderation. And as to your tag line? It offers such little comfort because on this Scouting values oriented forum that's exactly what we're doing!

If homosexual parade pictures are inappropriate for the forum, and the drunken debauchery of Mardi Gras and Carnival event pictures are inappropriate for the forum, and heterosexual concerns about young teenage girls is inappropriate, why are we allowing the door to open to any of this types of behavior in scouting? We need to be working to "moderate" more than just the forum. I guess my only concern is the "in your face" attitude of such groups that tell me that such activity is somehow okay when in fact, it is not. Flaunting one's homosexuality, or letting the boys know the "score" one has with the number of women and/or men in their lives, or the pedophilia's photo albums being shown at a Photography MB session or the alcoholic or drug user that comes in and does the drug and alcohol program for the boy so loaded or stoned he can't stand, but makes his point by being the "visual aid" for the program is anywhere near appropriate, then I have my concerns as well. If I knew (and the boys knew) that one of my ASM's was a practicing homosexual, alcoholic, pedophile, philanderer, or some other form of activity that is considered inappropriate by my standards, (yes, my standards) then either that person or I will be leaving the program. Any organization that allows such activity as being okay, does not have a place for me.

The more polarized the nation gets, the worse it will become. No one in 1860 thought the issue would ever come to a shooting war either. We had legislators beating each other half to death on the floor of Congress, but it was just a minor inconvenience at the time. The pro-slavery Democrats of the south just couldn't work it out within their own party and were easy prey for the new 3rd party Republicans.

@@HICO_Eagle and yet it is a Board of Review, not a Board of Inquisition. However, I'm willing to concede with all the Paper Eagles out there on any given day, most FC scouts couldn't go back and retest well on the T-FC requirements to save their soul. Yeah, this is not right and with all the conversation on Eagles not meaning what they used to, the pencil whipping goes on. Jodie's comments only reinforce what I already know. Eagle is not a mark of citizenship, honor and achievement, it is a mark of being able to play the game and get the prize. Case in point. I have a scout who has been in the program for 14 months and has earned 18 MB's having attended summer camp 4 times in two summers. Quite an achievement for a Tenderfoot scout. The reason being, it's easier to con the MB counselors at summer camp than get by the SM for rank advancement. I don't pencil whip and he's the PL so he can't get a buddy PL to pencil whip for him.