Stosh

Welcome to the forum... and the adventure begins!!!

Our boys: 1) Build a fire. 2) Fold the Flag as best we can. 3) Take it to a flag pole and fly it one last time with full flag protocol including the Pledge. 4) Retrieve the Flag and fold (again, as best we can if it's tattered) 5) Take it to the fire and place, folded into the fire. 6) Salute until it isn't recognizable anymore as the Flag. 7) If we know it was a coffin pall, the grommets are retrieved from the ashes the next morning and given back to the family. We do not shred the Flag prior to the retirement in that once it is "cut up" it is no longer the Flag.

In our council, I as SM, was asked to provide a recommendation by filling out a form. That was my only participation in the process. If one did not return the form or if it was not a glowing recommendation, the application process was halted until it was "corrected".

Welcome to the forum. It's always good to stick your toe in the water before you jump in.

If the two boys just find one friend and get them to join, we'll double in size overnight. Do that again in a couple of months and we'll be up to full strength patrol of 8. ::

I'm sorry but I had to check out this thread. Why would anyone go out and recruit nightmares? We have enough of them slip through the cracks and sign registration forms before we know it as it is.

No, that's not my problem, it is the problem defined by the U. S. Flag Code adopted by Congress. And no they do not prescribe anything other that what's written in the Code. For further reference, review the document, it's on-line. There are other traditions beyond the US Flag Code that I teach, i.e. the Scout Handbook. There they further indicate the BSA traditions which seem to follow some of the military protocols. So, I therefore teach the boys to fold the flag in a triangle, for example, but if I was teaching a church youth group, I would accept any form of folding done respectfully. I will also speak up explicitly when I see people doing it in ways contrary to the US Flag Code and conclude that out of their ignorance of the Code they have not done enough due diligence to show proper respect for the Flag.

Depends on the council. I was told I could form the new troop originally with 2 boys. I didn't ask questions, but I did get my 5 boys anyway.

Point of clarification... I was referring to the scouts, not me. I have fun whether it's one boy or 100 boys... If the troop folds, I'll be the last person standing. I still think this part of town needs scouting in the neighborhood. I'll be at the recruiting table of the local school Wednesday night. The scout @@Eagledad refers to was PL for a year and then stepped down, new scout took over. No big deal. Scout wasn't burned out, just was used to going to out-of-council troops with his uncle an Eagle SM, attending camp with other out-of-council troops, and having the money to attend multiple summer camps, etc. all feed into the no commitment, no responsibility, look out for oneself and having fun on one's own terms attitude. I have no problem with him leaving with an attitude like that supported by his parents. The scouts I have left will soldier on and we''ll do just fine. Yes, I believe the council will recharter the troop with 2 boys, in that they are committed to a BSA presence in the neighborhood. We've got school open house this week, Webelos cross over, and neighborhood sweeps. It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings. And yes, personally it would be a lot easier to join up with another troop as an ASM and sit back and enjoy the ride. I have 2-3 troops that would be happy to have the help. The district and council have been hounding me as well for another Venturing Crew, too. Worked Cub Scout Day camp last week, too, so it's not like I don't have something to do...

At summer camp they come from off the side At camporees or more ad hoc situations, usually from off the side, but sometimes through the formation is room is restricted.. By "off the side" it's not coming from behind around the formation it is more like enter stage right or left.

A couple of the threads got me thinking about this whole idea of dealing with problems in the troops/packs. What is the tipping point for standing and working with the pack/troop (fight) to make it a better unit and when does it make more sense to move on (flight)? When I used the term "fight" I'm not talking about the knock down, drag outs that occur on the political level in the units, but more the stand and work on making things better struggles we all participate in at different times. In terms of leadership development for the boys, and probably more for the Boy Scout end of the process, fight would be the choice that to me would make more sense. But the lack of good programming and untrained adults on the Cub Scout end of the spectrum would indicate maybe it would be better to move on down the road. When I started out my new unit (Boy Scout troop) I had 6 boys. In the past year and a half I have lost 4. 1. Just wasn't interested in Boy Scouts and was only in the program because single mom insisted hoping to have male role models for her son. She soon realize the futility of her pushing and let him quit. 2) Another boy got interested in 4-H and chose to pursue that route because it was a tradition for his family. He does show up occasionally. 3) Another boy moved away, but did not pursue Scouting in his new location. 4) Scout with real potential, gung-ho about Scouting. Went to 3 summer camps in two summers, accumulated 15 merit badges, hasn't reached TF yet. When he went to summer camp with the other troop, he earned TF, 2nd Class and First Class. His parents (Dad an Eagle) allowed him to quit our unit 4 blocks from his house and he will now be able to travel 45 minutes over to the other unit in a different state so his advancement will be sped up. He struggled in the private school he was attending so he quit that too. He did tell one of his relatives that the main reason he was leaving was because with older scouts around they can do all the work of running the troop. It was too hard being the one everyone looked to for leadership. This relative was concerned he was developing a pattern of quitting. One of my two remaining scouts (Webelos cross-over) commented when he heard about a Scout was supposed to be trustworthy and loyal? The two remaining boys have their entire next year all on the calendar ready to go. Did a nice nature hike this past weekend and had a great time. 10 plants identified along the way. So, what say ye? When do you stand and roll up your sleeves and when do you leave?

Our boys are generally taught to line up behind their SPL in a single file. The reason for that is now they can salute the back of the head of the scout in front of them instead of the flag. Do it any other way in my neck of the woods, and you will be corrected. My boys stand off to the side of this practice and line up side by side, dress for spacing and salute the flag directly. If someone mentions we do it wrong, we do flags from then on in our campsite instead. One SM running a camporee liked what we were doing and made everyone do the big horseshoe formation. Looked nice, but the ugly stares detracted from the occasion.

It might not be such a bad idea to put on a pot off coffee, drag ot some cookies and all do YPT together and then hold a discussion on how all of this relates to the way things are done in the troop. It could be a good ice-breaker for new parents looking to register and it makes a nice meet 'n' greet for all the adults. The spoonful of sugar approach.

A scout leader should be judged more on his/her potential assistance for the boys' program rather than their record of what they did for themselves in the past.

Especially when it comes to teaching the boys the respectful way of doing it using the appropriate standard.

A buck two-eighty and worth every penny. Making bets against BSA policy changes is a fruitless effort. Someone could make the guess $100 and be embarrassingly under guessing.....

The negative ding was what I was referring to as not very scout-like, not the humor, just too well timed to let it pass.

It applies to district and council level volunteers. If I wear a unit necker I do so when I am doing SM stuff. When I am doing UC stuff, I would wear the district/council necker. That's all that means. Same for the shoulder loops.

Because my necker doesn't have a BSA symbol/logo on it, I wear it anyway. Been doing it for years.

I think the point being made is the tendency to stereotype by association with what is perceived in general. KKK membership gives people an impression of militant racism against a number of ethnic and even religious groups. Black Panther and even NAACP gives people an impression of militant racism going the other direction. Tea Party - ultra conservatism LGBT - sexual deviation from the "norm". It's a game everyone plays one way or the other. To even declare a person a racist does in fact identify oneself as such as well. While I am not a racist, (my family consists of people of Asian, African and European descent), because I happen to be white, I have been declared a racist on various occasions. Guilt by association, plain and simple. I generally don't take serious comments of judgement like these because the logic leaves a lot to be desired. Big people talk about ideas. Middle people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.

@@TAHAWK Yes, the ceremony is called "Evening Retreat", but the flag is retired, retrieved, or lowered, never retreated.

@@mattman578 One post and someone dumps on him with a negative reputation. Maybe the "run away" advice is what he'll do. Not very scout-like.

first of many....

The whole point is that the US Flag Code does not prescribe ANY format for flag ceremonies, so there is no wrong way to do them. However as pointed out by your post, the word retreat bothers a lot of people and so it is a word that shouldn't be used. As I have stated in regards to the ceremonies it is "customary" (or traditional) the way some things are handled in regards to the flag. BSA has it's suggestions and it is a civilian organization. Then there's the way the military does it, but those customs are NOT civilian as with any other governmental organization like police or firefighters. I am sure the janitor who raised and lowered the flag every morning or evening at the school I attended as a child didn't have much of a ceremony.... and technically he was a government employee. When in doubt, refer back to the US Flag Code. If it isn't stated there, then fall back on what is customary for one's group they are participating in. Other than that, do what you think is respectful for the occasion. I personally work hard at maintaining a high level of dignity for the ceremonies in that my boys are taught that the most important thing they will do all day is raise and lower the flag as needed. Why? Because of the sacrifice, dedication and determination of others to make sure that flag always flies free and we can take a few serious moments to remember that. Maybe the word "retreat" bothers both you and I, so the comment of not using it might be appropriate. However, those who want to make the flag ceremony "fun" and "exciting" is something that rubs me the wrong way as well and I will not teach my boys to make it fun. Dignified, yes, but fun and exciting is not how that flag gets to stay flying free, just as any veteran.

It's not the program that's the problem.... it's me!