Stosh

As a troop we are doing nothing. Instead all the boys needing advancement are old what the situation is and they can decide what they want to do about their advancement..... I'll support their decisions as they come on-line.

I used to teach SM Fundamentals and I was the only trainer in my council that taught Webelos Outdoor Training. I was WB trained and hold a Masters of Scouting from U of Scouting. I have taught more classes than I have taken. Well, then they did the train the trainer stuff and made my WB credentials obsolete and so they don't ask me to teach anymore except when they get into real trouble, then I get a last minute call to see if I can come and help them out. Now when others around ask why I don't "step up and teach" it's because I'm not "qualified" and I don't have enough of the "real" beads. Seriously, does anyone want to hang around people who have this attitude?

I'm with @@Eagle94-A1 on this one. in most cultures adulthood starts around 12 or 13 years of age, i.e. confirmation, bar mitzvah, etc. and in America we extend childhood well into the lives of our children when they should be out in the world doing their own thing. Instead they live in their parents' basement until they are well into their 30's. This is a rather new phenomena in our culture and BSA has gone and drunk the koolaid. I wonder what the legal eagles would say if a 12 or 13 year old boy marched off to war like they used to. Oh, in Africa they still have "child soldiers"? My mistake, sorry Yes, the Baby Boomer generation started it with the whole idea that everyone needed to go on to college, With the boom in the economy that was now possible for a lot of families. Up until that time, getting a HS education was paramount to going on to college and one could now teach. Then there were the teachers colleges and the nursing colleges and other specialty schools added on until now, one can go to school well into their 40's and not have to work, or at least think about it. Remember, change isn't always a good thing and it usually isn't universal, and the caveat to remember is just because it seems likes a long standing tradition, it could be that it hasn't been around as long as you have walked the earth. Remember, we did not build this country into what it is today with entitlement attitudes and government expectations. If I don't have to lift a finger to help myself in this culture of America today, I surely don't need to lift a finger to help others.

@@walk in the woods "Maybe the problem is we put too much emphasis on boy-led and patrol method. Maybe the problem is we're trying to dictate too much structure onto a diverse population. Maybe the problem is we have too many old guys trying to push an old program onto new kids." Maybe if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Scouting ran very nicely for 50 years and then it was decide that new and improved was the route to go. So they tinkered it down to where it is today. Some of those old farts who are still hanging around are maybe hanging around hoping some day what they had as a great experience in Scouting can come back and be for their grandchildren...... http://www.outsideonline.com/2010526/we-wish-more-doctors-prescribed http://www.outsideonline.com/1803601/doctors-prescribing-time-outside It wasn't broken, it didn't need fixing. There's nothing wrong with the old, worn out, passe, out-dated version of BSA.

I used to be UC for 2 troops. The one was progressing very well as boy led, patrol method. The other was so adult led it was pathetic. They lost their "do everything" SM and began to flounder. They had more registered adults than boys. I offered to take over as SM but they turned me down and the troop folded. The boys went over to my other troop.... as did the adults. I went to the second troops annual planning meeting. 4 boys and 6 adults showed up and the two older boys showed up late and never really participated. The other two boys were Webelos crossovers they basically warmed chairs. The adults actually had a PowerPoint presentation on how to do the planning which an adult "played" with throughout the meeting. Take a troop working diligently on boy led, patrol method scouting and infect it with an adult led group of adults coming over from a collapsed troop, and one has a recipe for disaster. As UC, I flat out told the SM to watch his back, Even with the new boys merging together they don't have enough boys to make a single patrol. What they couldn't figure out is with less than 8 boys, how can one have a patrol method troop? ....and yes, the first thing on the calendar is the SPL election. Their HA event last summer was cancelled because "one of the boys wouldn't have been able to handle the challenge." whatever that meant. One thing a good UC can do for troops like this is stand back outside the minutia of the situation and see the big picture of where that troop is headed. Of course the second step is convincing the adults to get out of the way because the troop is in trouble because of their myopic view of how troops should be run. When I mentioned this situation infecting a second troop the DC knew exactly which adult had run the PowerPoint presentation without even having attended the meeting. Yes, it's the same person who is the adult "adviser" for the OA Lodge which is floundering as well.

I used to do that but it was after the kids were grown.

People today are individuals who gather in groups. Belonging is not necessarily a requirement. After a while it doesn't make much difference who one hangs out with as long as one has the opportunity to hang out. The rise of neighborhood gangs is a result of this sense of loss in belonging to something. BSA hasn't figured it out, but as BP would say, they simply form naturally and BSA no longer has it's finger on the pulse of how to tap into that process. They have chosen the option to impose on the boys rather than letting it evolve from within them. The boy-led, patrol-method would do that but we have pretty much given up on that and are running a competitive program of personal success along with every other youth group out there. And unfortunately we aren't doing a very good job of it.

With all the lip service BSA gives to the patrol method, why is it everything is done at the district and council level is done as troops? Shouldn't the patrols be the one's signing up for camporees, summer camp, etc? Or is this just real lip service because BP said so?

It's kinda strange that the different programs taught by the Council seem to include asking me to come in and do a session here and there on a particular topic, They never ask me if I've have had training and they don't ask me to be on the staff, just come in and do various practical seminars on outdoor skills. I'm not quite sure how that works in the real world.

Well, we have twice as many boys as we did two years ago, so overall we're doing great! We also have tents, backpacks, sleeping bags, troop flag, and have had 2 summer camps in, and a ton of other activities for the boys. We just need to work on adopting a fight attitude among the boys so that they don't bail before they get a chance to get a win in. It's a bit like the Stock Market and we're in it for the long haul. We did procure a Cub pack for our CO. So now we have an in-house feeder pack and will be able to work directly with the Cubs and their program to develop a seamless transition into the troop. We haven't worked out the details as yet, but we will both be meeting at the CO on the same night. As an adult in the program, I'm really excited about the potential of what we have here.

I go for the "A Scout is Obedient" and follows the rules routine.

We're more high-tech than that, we use a flare gun. The PL's always do the phone call routine to remind everyone of events a couple of days out. They did this even before we were down to 2 boys. As a matter of fact, the PL will continue to call all the boys who have "quit" up until we recharter and their membership expires.

Don't use any social media for the troop.

We'll train up the two boys I have now in the basics of canoeing and when the new Webelos boys come on-board, we'll have ballast for the front of each canoe to keep it out of the wind. In all seriousness the boys that are really into Scouting prefer the homemade trips over the summer camps. Those that are seeking to get themselves quickly to Eagle like the MB Summer Camps. it's a bit more work, but I like the homemade trips myself.

I kinda took it as a stop gap decision while they evaluate better options to meet their global needs. I don't think BSA is totally out of the woods as of yet. "With equal concern for the substantial number of youth who live outside the United States and Canada, the Church will continue to evaluate and refine program options that better meet its global needs."

Doncha just love it when those who make the big bucks haven't a clue as to what's going on. Maybe they ought to take a lesson on Servant Leadership and get out there and start making the program work instead of just meddling with it trying to make it worse.

No, I mean worth-the-trip kinds of training. And not just a rehash of basics either. Maybe something on dealing with some of the things we cover here on the forum. Ya, know, the real stuff we have to deal with in our units. For example, the active thread on whether or not a scout can go camping with another troop on a regular basis. The topic comes up in a conversation with someone and it gets developed into a mini-seminar on how to go about it. Maybe someone else in the class would be willing to do it so the inquirer won't have to run all over the place looking for some help for the boys in their troop that doesn't camp. Small numbers, how to deal with that situation. Too many scouts, how to deal with that situation. ADD/ADHD, Autistic, Asperger scouts, how to deal with that situation. Cooking and menus, maybe nothing more than bring recipes and do a little swapping. What's good with the water purification situation. My.Scouting.org and it's problems. ETC. Surely there is something of value one can put together to help advance the learning curve of our leaders in the district.

Naw, we'll do fine, just need more time. It is kinda nice to be able to give the more personal touch to each scout when the numbers are down like this. We've already adopted a leaner financial approach and are making plans to do some fund raising, but not to the point where it becomes a burden. The summer "camp" next year is going the route of a 5 day canoe trek with sandbar camping. The menu is in it's initial stages. It'll make a good shake-out trip for eventual BWCA trek. One of the boys said that summer camp can wait because they are too young for the good things like climbing towers, zip-lines, and HA at camp anyway. This way they can determine the minimum age at 11 and not worry about it. Canoeing? Kayaking? Fishing? Swimming? Camping? DO cooking? And it'll cost about 1/3rd the price of a summer camp program in a mess hall. The adults can sign on as MBC's and it'll be a blast.

I can see where a partner Venture Crew might be a good idea, but one already has a dual registered set of adults and older scouts. It just opens the door to expanding co-ed, program, etc. as well. The basic core of ready volunteers is there to start and one has the luxury of falling back on troop resources if the Crew needs it. My Crew was Civil War reenactors and like the new troop I"m building now, there is no safety net to fall back on. Try explaining to the new Crew members, it's going to cost $1500 for personal equipment to get started and see how fast your ranks fill up. I'd love to have a Venturing Crew of older boys that did a lot of HA, but that's a luxury I've never had in my Scouting career. Maybe next year.

Certain certifications are needed to maintain accreditation in various fields. One takes the basic course and is qualified, but then so many "continuing education" hours are needed to maintain it. I can see doing X number of hours per year to maintain one's trained status and that could be handled very nicely at RT, UofS, summer camp, camporees, etc. when the people are already in attendance or have a reason for attending in the first place.

I would suggest not starting a new unit then. One doesn't get the choice on having the numbers for a while. There's a lot to be said about coasting along on other people's program building and building one of one's own. Whole different skill set to consider. Yes, it would be nice to have the numbers. Yes it would be nice to have the older boys to teach. Yes it would be nice to have some track record of what works for the group and what doesn't. Yes it would be nice to have an over abundant reserve in the treasury. Yes it would be nice to have all the equipment to do a nice campout. Yes it would be nice to have a lot of what others simply take for granted because their programs have been entrenched and operational for many years. One cannot take position specific training and expect to pull off starting a Boy Scout troop with 3-4 Webelos cross-overs. But then unless one has even tried it, they will probably never understand the different dynamics involved. The Fight or Flight thread was intended for the dynamics observed from the boys. The two adults are totally on-board with how things are shaking out both positive and negative. The boys we have left are the hardcore scouts that are willing to roll up their sleeves and make the troop work. Those who have other ideas have gone off in search of those other issues. The interesting thing is that even though the one boy went to another troop, his dad and grandmother who have been working with the troop aren't going anywhere. They are just as determined as I am to make this work. One of the things that keeps one from burning out is not the pressure, but the monotony at times. Going from a long standing troop of 50+ boys down to a brand new troop with just a handful makes life interesting. By the way my Venturing crew that was started 15 years ago and still running strong started out with 2 boys as well. It's the oldest crew in the council . Go figure, eh?

@@Mom2a Making things better has a lot to do with what it takes to help others, not just oneself. It's really easy to quit when it doesn't suit oneself. In general, I believe today's society is too narcissistic to hang in there and make things better. We see it in the general trend of the Scouting program. Are rank advancements designed for oneself and getting the Paper Eagle for self promotion, or is one's participation to develop oneself to actually be able to do one's duty to God and country and help other people at all times and be a Real Eagle?

Belated welcome, hope you get comfortable with posting and letting us know your opinions as well.

@@ScoutMom23 First of all, welcome to the forum! From the way you express it, your son should wear the new patrol's patch. However, like @@NJCubScouter mentions, make sure he is the patrol leader and not the Troop Guide which is NOT part of the patrol, but an "outside" mentor to the new scouts. There's a lot of sewing going on with this, but maybe your son could learn to sew his patches on as he goes. ScoutMasters who do a lot of shuffling around of patrol members, this could get annoying, but if one is a member of a certain patrol, all members are to wear the patrol's patch.

After 35+ years of Scouter leadership, I've ridden this cycle many times. I just hate it when the boys bail after a year when there are those out there that persevere for many years in order to get results. In our society of instant gratification, that flight trigger is getting more and more pronounced in the younger generation. It's pretty difficult to teach leadership to boys that will bail at the first sign of a struggle of any sort.