Stosh

I don't have a PLC.

Having to struggle with disabilities (of which most of us have that don't have acronyms) is not something to be jealous of. We all struggle in different ways. How we overcome these disabilities and desperately try to fit into society is what one needs to focus on. Everyone prefers to be "normal" but even that is not a constant. I have found that having worked with young people during their developmental years a source of great joy when they are able to overcome society's demands, and heartbreaking when they can't. Yet the human nature in us all hopefully finds a common ground in the ability to find our niche and be contented with who we are. When I was starting high school I was 4' 11" tall weighing 97 pounds. Only one boy in my class of 200 was smaller than me. About half the girls in my class were taller than me. I did get my growth spurt and by the end of my sophomore year I was 6' 135 pounds. My mother kept taking back my blue jeans to the store every time she laundered them, she was certain they were shrinking in the wash. My school guidance counselors told me I wasn't college material and I should focus on getting a job with the local factory in the area if I wanted to make good money. Would I ever want to go back and relive those years? No way in Hell! And it to these kids I have dedicated my whole life to because they all face the same challenges I did. I happen to overcome those years, but it wasn't easy. A few adults here and there made it bearable. I just hope I'm one of those kinds of adults that some of these kids look back on and feel the same about me. Nobody wants to take on those years alone. Maybe this is why I spend too much time trying to hang on to classic Boy Scouts. It was the Golden Age of hanging out with friends where you were accepted for who you were at the moment. Kinda like a safe place in life just sitting around the fire doing absolutely nothing that kept us going.

This is a skill taught every year the boys have their winter Klondike.

I got deployed to work Hurricane Irma and flew into Orlando. I packed for Florida weather. Well they wanted me to drive an ARC vehicle to the wildfires in California, so it was road trip all the way across the country to Sacramento. Weather-wise, Sacramento is not Orlando. I hadn't even packed a coat or sweatshirt. I survived 2 weeks there and then drove an ARC vehicle back to Wisconsin. At least it was warm in the truck. So to make a long story short, I am nursing a pretty good cold right now. One would think that by my age, I would have learned..... nope.

When I was WDL, I had the boys focus on the "book" so they earned as many pins as they wished and completed the AOL requirements all within the first year. The second year we focused on the TF-FC skills. They all did TF-FC the first year of Boy Scouts because it was all review for them. Actually they crossed over under the old program where if they had gone through TF properly, they came into Boy Scouts as TF. The first thing the SM did was an interview with each boy to see what they really knew. They all passed with flying colors. So then the first year was just SC and FC. In August, just before the crossed over, we had a camp out. They paddled out to an uninhibited island in a lake, set up camp, dug a latrine, cooked their meals and cleaned up correctly, went fishing, played with the canoes, had a fantastic outing. All the dads, which were there by policy rules, were told to stay out of the way, and I did as well. They functioned as well as any regular patrol ever could. The SM said that these boys would all burn out too soon having had too many experiences before they got to Boy Scouts. Maybe so, but for one who moved away from the area, the rest all Eagled and stayed with the troop until aging out. That probably was the best two years of my scouter experience. It was also one of the items on my WoodBadge ticket.

Maybe he ought to learn leadership first. Anyone can follow. As a ADHD, I know from experience many of them can be high achievers if given the opportunity. Start with focusing on the part of the Scout Law -....help other people at all times.... If he can master this, he will be sought out by every patrol on the planet. Everyone wants those that help with anything and everything. People seek out these people and want them near. They like to be with these kinds of people and while he's helping other people at all times, he is not focused on himself, but on others and looking for ways to help them with their struggles. Does this sound like a follower or a leader? Clue: it's called servant leadership and it wields great power. If everyone is looking to him for care, and he pulls out and walks away, the group is in big trouble. Why? Because they can't function without their true leader, the one that takes care of them. By the way I am ADHD as well. One might think ADHD people are incapable of doing things because they get distracted. But if one can focus them, they will do amazing things. One of my non-medicated ADHD scouts ran the popcorn fundraiser for the troop. At age 13, he pulled off the most successful year the troop ever had up to that point. Everyone of the boys got their order sheets in on time, they received all their prizes and this young man hounded them relentlessly. I as an adult could not have motivated the boys the way this scout did. I love having at least one ADD/ADHD scout in my troop, they are like gold.

Second lesson for Wisconites: When hiking, always hike with someone who can't run as fast as you. How did you survive this long without these basic lessons. I'm from Wisconsin, too.

You're from Wisconsin and you haven't learned the 5 second lesson on going through the ice? Don't be the first one on the ice!!!"

Yeah, what's it too ya, Sonny?

I wear a vest with everything I need, pens, flashlight, keys, knives, compass, phone (2) charger, etc. Be Prepared. Well, I hit the TSA at the airport and got pulled aside. I knew I wasn't carrying anything improper, but TSA found a Boy Scout jackknife and fingernail clippers in my first aid kit I had thrown in as I always do, scissors and needles in my "housewife" (sewing kit), and here I stood with my Red Cross ID on. Fortunately the TSA gal made the connection between Red Cross and my scouting background and helped me arrange having my knife mailed back home. She ignored the scissors and needles and told me to do better to "Be Prepared" for airport TSA. And the lessons go on and on. Maybe not a failure, but definitely an embarrassing inconvenience.

It is obvious that 1) I am not clear in my comments or 2) people aren't looking and understanding what I am saying. Either option leaves the point unresolved. Let's try this: IF I were a scouter with 40+ years experience of working in the different Boy Scout level program. I would be well versed in my experience and know what to expect in the situations I encounter in the group. Group dynamics would be a known, group interests would be a known, what the boys try to pull one over on me would be a known, and the list goes on and on. If that scouter hadn't raised a daughter and had he not worked with other co-ed groups, all lot of what he was used to dealing with would be a whole new world of different experiences. I have no idea how many men that would be. I'm not one of them because I have 40+ years of working with co-ed groups as well as Boy Scouts. 3 times over the years I have had to deal with a woman's first menstrual cycle. It is an awkward and embarrassing moment for both involved. I have had to deal with the moodiness that goes along with it. It's not the girls fault and how one reacts makes a major impact on the girl emotionally. These are natural and predictable situations that need special attention. A girl fight is far different than a guy fight. Gals tend to react differently to emotional situations than guys, and the list goes on and on. Raising daughters is not the same as raising sons even though they are both in the same family. Young scouters will most likely not have experiences in these matters. Sure they might have had sisters to deal with, but punching them or tattling to Mom/Dad isn't the solution either. Extensive studies have been done in the realm of group dynamics that affirm that guys and gals are different depending on the group they are in. Why is girls night out or guys night out still around in our "blended society"? There's a scientific reason for it. BSA has been working on it for 50 years in Exploring/Venturing and as yet figured it out to where the program is a glowing success. Tossing more gasoline on the fire hasn't done much to improve the situation either. Yes, co-ed scouting could be a real asset to society, but from all the evidence that has come in over the past 50 years, I don't believe BSA has a handle on it, nor is it working on trying to find it either. There are a lot of other organizations that do far better and have been successfully been doing it far longer. So the personal choice for me is: do I stay and try to revive a dying program, or simply sign up for one that has figured it out a long time ago, like 4-H, or some other co-ed youth program. I don't think BSA has done it's homework on this before they jumped in with both feet (with or without goggles). At the present time, BSA is watching co-ed groups doing well and assume that simply going co-ed is what the magic elixir is to solve it's problem. What they don't know is co-ed is not the problem, it's not knowing what all the dynamics of co-ed means is the problem. Other groups have worked that out. BSA is now the Webeols organization of the youth activity in our society. Thinking that girls want to be Eagles is assuming that all the steps to get there are already in place. Mechanically it is, but the Devil is in the detail and they have not done their homework on the detail.

Learn from our failures. Works every time. I have a sneaking suspicion that parents that are afraid of failure and are high achievers pass that along to their children because somehow that gets translated in if my kid doesn't make Eagle, I have failed as a parent. Let me assure everyone that that isn't the correct conclusion. If your child grows up in scouting, gets to 2nd class quits and goes on to graduate school and provides well for his family and raises kids like their parents did. Ya done good!!! On my first deployment with the Red Cross, I was expected to commit 2 weeks. Well I packed for 2 weeks. After 3 weeks, I mailed half my stuff back home. On my latest deployment, I packed a carry-on bag and a small rucksack backpack for a 4 week commitment. They have laundromats in flooded Houston, who'da thunk! Even at 67, I'm still learning from my failures!

When I was WDL, I started as blw2 did, using the patrol method. I treated the boys as if they were a NSP and I was TG. Yes, it was all adult-led, but that's the Cub program. After 2 years with these boys, they were well versed in Boy Scouts, came into the troop as TF (something that was allowed "back in the day") and all went on to Eagle. They really weren't a NSP when they crossed over. They knew as much if not more about Boy Scouts than the others in the troop. One of the first complaints about the "new boys" on the first fall camporee was they ate better than anyone else. They showed up with baked potatoes, brown sugar glazed carrots and t-bone steak grilled on the campfire. It did set the tone for improvement in the other patrols, but it was kinda nice to see the new boys setting the pace.

Neither me nor my father cared about getting the Eagle. We seldom even talked about scouting while I was in the program. It was more the fact that I hung out with the group of friends I made in grade school with and eventually went our separate ways when we graduated from high school. Yes, while we were in scouts we were our own patrol for the full 4 years. When we left scouting, we left together and went together to a different youth program.

For many years, sandlot neighborhood pickup games of scouting did really well. You are right @blw2, someone changed the game.

The aim of the BSA program for me is to develop boys into knowledgeable and resourceful men. Planning a trip for the scouts needs to be a precursor for planning a family trip to Disney World. Cooking is not just for them, but the family he might have as an adult. Kids get hurt? Does he know the basics of first aid? Grandpa takes a tumble down the steps, can he help or just stand around and watch? BSA puts these skill requirements out there for a reason other than box checking and bling awards. I guess in spite of all the interpretations out there on these things, the under lying consideration I have in my mind is "Why are they having to learn these things?" If it's only to get a rank award, then go ahead and check the box and don't worry about it. Otherwise, consider the consequences of that checked box. Am I doing this boy a disservice by not taking it seriously? By the way @Col. Flagg, just putting an @ in front of a name does not tag it. You can either go the programmatic way and type out [member="Col. Flagg" (I left out the second "bracket" at the end so it would not convert) or just go to the upper menu, click on the icon just to the left of the Font box and it will give you a pull down menu. Select "Member" and then type in the name on the next line presented. It will format it for you.

We travelled 5 hours to get to a great white-water river for canoe/kayaking. We got up in the morning, the weather turned against us,and my PL said. "What's Plan B?" I asked, "Did you see any good billboards on the way up?" With a grin, he gathered up the boys and we went to a great aviation museum for the day.

I looked, but they have just about every other kind of headgear. Sorry.

And how does that prepare them for real life? Just because they don't do water activities at camp, should they not be trained to handle a water emergency when involved in a non-scouting activity? Too often we are so focused we loose sight that what we are doing in scouting is not for the promotion and continuance of scouting or getting rank bling, it's getting the boys ready for life. If Grandpa is out fishing with his grandson and the boy falls overboard, what can Grandpa do? I train my boys to be prepared for such a situation and hope and pray they never have to put it into practice. Every check box I mark in a boy's handbook is premised with, does he know it well enough to be able to use it in real life?

When I use the term "one" it is a generic term meaning "if the shoe fits, wear it". If not don't worry about it. No need to assume anything unless I specifically state the identity of a person, one can assume I am talking generically to anyone. There is nothing in the BSA program that will harm girls. It's just that the program is not designed for them. The program will need to be changed to meet that issue. Therein lies the problem. If I am in the market selling hiking boots, yes, they can be worn by gals, but I know fashion-wise, the market is greater for males than females. Sure they might be, for a while, fashionable, but when it comes to high-heeled shoes, I'm not interested in creating a market for men. With the change in membership make-up, there will be a change in the program to accommodate it. That is what makes BSA nothing more than another generic outdoor program for youth. Best of luck with that. I can do the same thing with the faith-based and community based groups I am already involved with. Obviously I ran my Venturing Crew for 12+ years far differently than I ran my Boy Scout troop. After years of decline Exploring was going down hill, and so it went to co-ed Exploring, but there was a MAJOR change in the program to do so. Yet it continued to decline and so Learning for Life (career) broke down into the Venturing program (hobby/special interest) and yet it continued it's decline. So what is going to happen? Lets make Boy Scouts co-ed and see what happens. One doesn't need a crystal ball to figure that one out. As an afterthought, as a moderator on other forums, I learned that the use of the word "one" instead of "you" is far less confrontational. Thus it's usage in my posts. There are a ton of people on this forum that bring great insights that they have developed outside of BSA to the table. Never underestimate the other guy (or gal) whatever the case may be. Sometimes life experiences do carry some weight that needs to be taken into consideration, too.

My mom and dad paid for my scout uniform. That was the only thing they did for me in my scouting career. Everything else came out of my pocked and was accomplished on my own. With that being said, I have come to the conclusion that parents aren't really needed in the program. My dad was district commissioner for a brief time, but didn't get involved in scouting other than that. On the other hand all the weekends that I was not camping with the troop, I was camping with my family. I learned more about camping before I got to scouts than I did while in scouts. Scouts was just a great time to hang out with just my buddies. That's why after 4 years none of us got beyond 2nd class. It was still worth it for 4 years. If the program was back then what it is today, there would have been no incentive to join. None of us wanted parents and siblings around and Scouting was our opportunity for it.

Unfortunately when it comes to outdoor activities, common sense isn't as common as it used to be. I constantly watch the weather reports in my area when it comes to outings. T-storms, tornadoes, blizzards are all every day occurrences in my part of the world. I do not leave anything up to chance. I have cancelled outings in the past, but a little rain isn't one of the pressing safety issues. Storm cells are.

Not really. These tests are conducted annually and whether or not one can pass the test determines much of the activities one is allowed in the BSA program. Sure, the rank test is one thing to consider. My boys take the test every 6 months. Once in the dead of winter at a pool and again at summer camp. Either test garners the check mark in the box for rank. But before I take my boys out for some white-water canoeing or kayaking, they had better do more than just swim 4 laps in a pool.

Physically the stamina of a woman is far better than a man's. Yet brute strength the men will do better. Hiking 100 miles will take it's toll differently on a man than it will on a woman. There's more to it than just physical strength and endurance. There's emotional issues to consider. There are sexual issues to consider. There are mental issues to consider. Goals of males are different than goals of female. The list goes on and on. It doesn't take a whole lot of thought to see that a co-ed Bible study is different than a men's group study or a woman's group study. Same for a book club. Interests are different. The movies and TV shows we watch are different. Marketing products to the public are carefully designed differently for men than women. How men shop is different than how women shop. What they are looking for is different than the others. Community based organizations vary, GS/USA has a different agenda than BSA. YMCA was different than YWCA. The societal attitudes are different towards groups varies depending on it's make-up. Church groups are different than community groups. They have different agendas. Sports are still basically male and female because of the physical make up of the species. Yet a female kicker might do okay on an elsewise all male football team, but she's never going to be much of a line-blocker on the team. So what do we have? Over the past 50 years there has been the basic movement towards equalization of the two sexes even when they are not physically and emotionally equal to begin with, nor do they have the same general interests either. So, we merge them as the YMCA/YWCA did and Boy & Girls Clubs did, and what BSA did with Exploring/Venturing did, as do faith-based groups did, as did Kiwanis, Lions, and other adult organizations did. And for the most part do very well. So where's the problem? They all went to an equalized generic agenda which speaks to the common ground of the combined groups. They appear to be very successful at it and with just a slight variance in goals and missions are really quite generic. So now what? Scouts have moved into the generic croud with camping and the outdoors as it's unique flagship. Basically there's nothing wrong with that other than it's a johnny-come-lately to the party. There are a lot of other programs that offer that as a draw along with the expanded program of other interest areas. Now BSA has to compete with them on equal grounds and with it's outdoors program will be at a slight disadvantage. Sure Learning for Life and STEM will help, but they are not the flagship of the BSA and for marketing, won't draw as well as the school clubs do already. Costs will affect that greatly. Schools can outspend for better programs and equipment than BSA can. The problem is not whether or not girls can survive in a BSA program, it's whether or not BSA can survive becoming just another rather expensive generic youth program than can be found elsewhere at far less cost. I hear it already in today's society. We don't go to Sea Base or Philmont because it's too expensive. When I go to BWCA I don't go through BSA, we do it cheaper on our own. Let's see, the choices this summer are Space Camp, Computer Camp, Church Camp or BSA Camp? That's a lot of competition to be up against. The uniqueness of BSA being an all-boys camp is now gone. I'm not against BSA going co-ed, I'm against BSA losing sight of it's uniqueness in the process.