Stosh

I don't doubt that such experiences are great for the boys. I've always assumed when the term camp is used it involves a tent and a campfire....... Sleeping in a building or a large ship isn't really camping. My granddaddy never talked about his Navy experience on the USS whatever in a bunk as camping. And I don't think that the astronauts on the moon were up there camping, but I guess I could possibly make a better case for camping for those guys. Camping is when you're sleeping out under the stars on a crisp fall night close enough to the fire to toss in a log or two without getting up.... Heaven on earth! No air mattress needed.

Saturn car company come to mind?

Take care of your boys!

I guess you got your answer. We're so far back in the woods where we are, we tend to have more programs that use tents for camping than just a pad on a cement floor.

I would have the PL of the boy meet with you and the SPL in tow when you meet with the parent. Safety in numbers and the boys can explain why her son isn't progressing in advancement. It's their responsibility, not yours, to help directly with the scout. If the parent questions the protocol, just explain that the PL is responsible for helping her son with advancements, the SPL his is #1 support person in that process. You only oversee the support of the whole program through the SPL. If she asks why no adults are overseeing the program, take the opportunity to explain boy-led to her and that if her son steps up into leadership it will be great for his advancement.

Well, if you don't drink coffee at least learn how to make good campfire egg coffee and you'll have friends forever.

Posted Today, 06:00 AM NJCubScouter, on 06 Sept 2015 - 2:58 PM, said: If you are willing to 'unhide' a post, my request is that since you moved this to Issues and Politics, and I now unexpectedly have posts in this forum, I ask you to delete my posts. You are the reason I have this presence in this forum and it is reasonable for me to expect you to take the similar courtesy that you took in 'unhiding' a post in order to remove me from the forum you placed me into, Issues and Politics. And once you have done that, please delete this post as well. Thank you. Edited by ya lazima vumbi, Today, 06:01 AM. No further comment necessary.

It takes about 7 years to develop a good BOY scout, if the parents took 7 years to develop into a good ADULT leader, they would be leaving just about the time they would be able to take over. Ever wonder why BSA doesn't allow Eagle Scouts to be SM's for 3 years after they age out? Maybe they know something about how well the program provides or doesn't provide these skills.

What's a camp-in?

We've put in well over 100 comments on speculating what would happen to the BSA if it went co-ed, but how about some constructive ideas on what would happen to the BSA if it DIDN"T go co-ed, and even went back to being an all-male program like it once was? It's my contention that the original program grew into it's Golden Age of Scouting (pre-1970) with it being an all male organization both on the youth and adult levels. Scouting ranked well above any youth organization in America as providing quality character development and leadership in our society. Since going co-ed, the numbers have declined. How does one justify continuing that course with such evidence at hand? We've hemorrhaged now for the last 40 years, maybe it's time we did something about it that entails fewer bandaids and more curative medicine. Let's also see how long it takes for the moderation of the forum to get this out of the PROGRAM part of the forum and into the Dead Letter Office part of the program. This issue IS THE PROGRAM of the BSA and whether or not it is going to survive.

"If you are willing to 'unhide' a post, my request is that since you moved this to Issues and Politics, and I now unexpectedly have posts in this forum, I ask you to delete my posts. You are the reason I have this presence in this forum and it is reasonable for me to expect you to take the similar courtesy that you took in 'unhiding' a post in order to remove me from the forum you placed me into, Issues and Politics. And once you have done that, please delete this post as well. Thank you." Looks a bit like heavy-handed moderation is beginning to take it's toll on member satisfaction. I put this new thread in the I & P section (Dead Letter Office) because I know before hand that's where it would end up. We really can't afford to be losing our good forum members because of problems with the way the forum is being moderated.

As everyone knows, I have a boy-led program, but being a new troop, I have no older boys to teach. So I teach the basic skills. It's rather interesting how many of the parent/leaders in the troop who normally sit in the back of the room and talk quietly among themselves will creep up to the group of boys and sit quietly and learn what the boys are being taught. Some have gone so far as to even ask questions on the topic being taught. It would seem that the desire to be outdoors is not limited to the boys. So, with newbie adults, where's my pool of backwoods people to lead the boys out into the woods and know what they're going?

Welcome to the forum. Do you drink coffee? #1 requirement of a good SM.

@@JoeBob and @CA Scout Mom are correct. Most of the outdoors people are generally specialized in their outdoor activity. There are not a lot of tent campers out there. Just because one hunts doesn't make them a camper and just because one fishes does not make them a hunter. My wife kayaks, tents, hikes and x-countries skies, but does not hunt or fish. .... and just because one camps in an RV does not make them a candidate for SM or ASM, unless one is into mega KOA plop camping. The pool of outdoor educated people is getting smaller as we speak.

t doesn't sound a whole lot different than stand-up canoeing. At least with canoeing one can have a bit more cargo.

Once everyone realizes that they can get out of their hassles with the councils' extra work load they are generating, all they need do is not re-certify and the council will drop them like a hot potato. It'll work wonders for the quota numbers for the councils.

It's no different than putting freshmen girls in with college guys and that BSA already does. All they are going to do is make the problems worse in that category.

@@Krampus you took all the fun out of it with your techie talk.

Yeah, @@qwazse, when I left the ministry I thought I left it behind, but I guess not.

When I was a freshman in high school we had a meeting of the American Field Service club to welcome our new foreign exchange student. My mother insisted I wear sport coat and tie and I knew the other kids would be in blue jeans and oxfords. When I pressed why, she said, "If you go over dressed you can always toss the coat and tie in the corner and still enjoy yourself with others wearing bluejeans and oxfords. However, if you show up in bluejeans and t-shirt and everyone else is wearing sport coats and ties, you probably won't feel very well for the evening out." Always remembered that bit of advice. Always show up in full uniform and if need be, I can take the necker and shirt off and still be okay.

BSA doesn't do it very often, but with the new highly technological functions of Irving being implemented on a nationwide scale, one can be assured that someone in the Information Technology (IT) department has made a serious Public Relations (PR) mistake with broadcasting a message like this on the screen of any home computer trying access the software. The screen should read, "Please reboot your computer to clear the problem with your computer. If the problem persists after 2 or 3 attempts, please contact our IT department during regular business office hours M-F 8:00 am - 5:00 pm, excluding holidays." Obviously the problem is on your end of the connection, Irving can never be wrong. If you're not wrong, then the Council is. By the time you get this problem "fixed" assume that all your boys will have Eagled out of your program and this whole advancement thing will just go away.

@@newscouter3 I thought you were putting this agenda out there as a joke. I didn't realize some fool actually thought this was a good idea. My agenda has more break out den activity than his AND I have an equal amount of game time as well. This guy needs serious CM training on making it fun for the boys. This agenda is more of a PACK agenda with 20 minutes for handing out awards instead of a den meeting. If the CM insisted on this agenda and I was a DL, I'd be having my den meetings someplace else. No, corrected....ANYplace else.

And as I can attest from my youth experience, the role models in the scouting program I had were all male from Explorers on up. The only female was my various Den Mothers from Cub Scouts. I was just as impressed with the quality of their character and commitment. Had any of them been female, I wouldn't have looked up to them as a role model. I wanted to grow up to be a guy, not a gal. Was I part of co-ed groups? Sure, a ton of school clubs, church youth groups, community based youth programs, school itself were all co-ed. I needed BOY scouts so I could hang with my buddies. I was not into the girlfriend scene until college. I worked from late grade school all the way through my life and in those early years, asking a girl out meant I had to foot the bill for the both of us. Heck, no girl was worth that. By the college years, Dutch treat was becoming popular so then it was okay. Like I said before when it came to any and all activities outside the family, I needed to pick up my own tab. Parents couldn't afford much beyond providing for the family. So in today's world where would I fit in? I would I find an all-boys group to join? BSA USED to be the last bastion of safety for boys growing up. What have we got now? Nothing but repetitive same-old, same-old, in any of the youth organizations offered in today's society. Schools, Churches, social organizations, all are co-ed (no wonder sexual identity is all screwed up). Where's the man-cave of adventure and chivalry for young males? It doesn't exist in America I guess. What do I find wrong with any of this? Nothing. Co-ed school groups are fine. Co-ed Church groups are fine. Co-ed social organizations are fine. But when one signs up for BOY Scouts and GIRL Scouts, one ought to get what the package promotes. If I bought a can of peas and when I got home it was mixed vegetables, I'd be heading back to the store. That's not what I signed on for.

So instead of being a development program of male youth leadership development with an emphasis on outdoor adventures, we have become a therapeutic community for dysfunctional families? I guess I missed that memo.

And I totally agree to the adendum