Stosh

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with folding it in a triangle as BSA recommends and is traditional. And if the Cub Scouts are doing a flag ceremony where they need to fold the flag and they fold it in a square and then into a triangle at the end, that is just as correct as well. If they fold it so the stripes are on the outside. Not a problem. The boys are simply doing their best and according to the US Flag Code, they are correct with their efforts.

How far do you plan on riding that dead horse?

First of all welcome to the forum. Every city and county has an emergency response team. Police departments have amber alert protocol. Civil Air Patrol has their aerial search processes to search expansive amounts of area from the air. BadWolf had some other local departments that he tapped into maybe others out there would remember those comments and training opportunities he discussed. Local ambulance and fire departments have protocols for disaster situations. I don't know if there is any ONE over all authority that coordinates all these agencies into a search and rescue operation, but I wold start with the local police, fire and medical personnel to see if you can chase down some of these different operations and see how they fit into an overall picture for search and rescue operations in your area. I used to be part of the medical focus, but never did the search part, more of the rescue stuff. As a kid I was in Civil Air Patrol, which did the searching, but wasn't then involved in any rescue operations.

Welcome to the forums, @@Scourge. I'm glad you got involved in Venturing, it will be a good outlet for your interests and skills. I have a daughter that had pretty much the same attitude. Needless to say, my granddaughter has been camping and has enjoyed the massive sugar rush of campfire toasted marshmallows. My other daughter doesn't like camping, bugs, or anything that smells of campfire, but she's the veteran of a Boundary Water trek and our annual camping trip into the woods. Now that she too has a little one, that may now pass into the memory only part of my life, but she knew it was important to me and our times together were very special to me and she knew it. Her birthday is 3 days after mine. Our camping trip was always in the fall around our birthdays. For years, it was always her birthday gift to me. While she doesn't like camping, her little one seemed to enjoy the campfire marshmallow, so there's still hope down the road.

My daughter was in dance for one year. They had to have a new outfit for every song. That ain't gonna last long around my pocket book..

People role it up on the flag pole all the time. It doesn't need to be folded to be stored away.

I'm sure you would be just as offended by a non-veteran having their coffin draped with a US FLAG as well. So one can argue all they want about funeral palls on civilian caskets and triangular shaped foldings, and all kinds of made up junk about the flag and conclude the US Congress is full of _____ when it comes to "respect". It's a free country, knock yourself out. Me, as long as I am a scouter teaching the boys US Flag etiquette, I will use the US Flag Code as prescribed by Act of Congress. It's a level of honesty I'm willing to live with. I am not active service military, so that protocol doesn't apply to me I am a civilian. So, if anyone doesn't approve of me using the US Flag Code for proper Flag etiquette, not a problem. Just don't expect me to get all excited about something someone makes up on their own. In this day and age, it's kinda nice to find someone who actually knows what they are doing when they do things according to the Code. It's becoming the exception to the rule in an anything goes society.

Well, I guess I've never really gotten into the loop for such things. My daughters were on swim team, suit and a towel, and cross country, running shoes and shorts/shirt. The biggest expense was the traveling to the events. As a kid I remember forking over big bucks of my own money for a baseball glove only to find it out was the wrong one. (Had an outfield glove, played first base.) Had to borrow a glove anyway.... My bat I got for my birthday after the first season. BUT just remember how expensive those BSA uniform pants are and you will understand why kids aren't in scouting nowadays. Love the video clip! It's so true it hurts.

One also has to overcome the hurdle of taking adults seriously about the change. For 11-17 years they have heard the adult line about growing up, being a big boy, and making their own choices, but more often than not the rug has been pulled out from under them a lot of times along the way. One more false promise of us running the show. We'll just wait and see. So while they wait, the adults become frustrated and take the reins back and the boys conclude, "See, just like always." Most adults don't have the nerve to allow the youth to fail multiple times until the boys learn to trust that they are really in control of the program. No other program out there has the potential to do that. There's always going to be the band director, the coach, the teacher, the pastor, the parent telling the boy what his options are and which of those options is the best. Yeah, right, that's letting the boy decide. They have never been given the chance to really decide for themselves and theoretically BSA is the only program that allows that possibility. The only thing standing in the way are the mentoring, guiding, directing, correcting, manipulating and even bullying adults. No successful SM brags about the fact that his boys are making choices and failing right and left as they try out their wings. No SM wants to hear from a parent about the failings of their perfect child. No SM wants the parents to show up at a troop/patrol meeting and be greeted by semi-chaotic activity going on all around them. Keep it in mind, even with all the organizational time and effort that goes into burning out SM's, it's still easier than turning control of the chaos over to the boys to figure out and decide.

@@tower_flower Welcome to the forum!

The impressive ceremonies I have seen in our neck of the woods are those that are designed and run by the adults. The most memorable ceremonies I have seen in our neck of the woods are those that are designed and run by the Scouts. You're asking the wrong people. The memorable parts I remember is the PL doing the MC of the event. He may not be an Eagle himself, but the PL is the one responsible for helping that Eagle scout get to that place in his life. If the scout has had multiple PL's over the years, they are all invited to have a part of the ceremony.... His patrol members do the flags.... I like the comments part where the Eagle points out the special things he remembers about his scouting experience AND where he plans on going now that he's an Eagle. I don't think the boys have ever used a script, but did more of an outline and left it more open to comments that were appropriate at the time rather than trying to read a script. Other scouts were given the opportunity to say things about the Eagle if they wanted to. That was usually their buddies sharing experiences they had with him on different activities, etc. All the scouters including the SM sat in the audience with the family and friends. The only time I have ever participated in a ECOH was when I was asked to come up and receive a mentor pin. I guess I just enjoy the more relaxed semi-formal approach the boys come up with rather than the more formalized approach of the adults. Kinda like the feeling between sitting around the campfire vs. doing a flag ceremony.

Whatever happened to playing games for fun? Sure I played on a Little League team, but I spent more hours with my buddies doing sandlot baseball and had more fun. Soccer? that was something we only read about in books, and in all sincerity, I believe the popularity of soccer comes from the fact that shoes, socks, shorts and shirt are the only expenses a parent puts up with other than gas to get them to practice. Gloves, bats, pads, helmets, sticks, skates, all add up to big financial commitments. And the motivation behind it all? I didn't sign up for sports because my parents wanted me to, or some coach tried to get me on board, but only because it sounded like fun. I guess that's changed a bit over the years. We had one boy into karate. He made black belt and moved up to the next level and their practice fell on scout night. The new troop just moved the meeting to a different day. Out of the two boys still active in the troop at the present time. He has quit karate and is one of the two remaining.

First of all, Ruth was widowed at a young age. She was not in her native country and without a husband had no way of earning a living. Boaz was a wealthy man and was related to Ruth's deceased husband. He left instructions to leave part of his field and whatever was scattered about after harvest not to be cleaned up but left for the widows, the poor and the orphans. That is why Ruth was in the field that day. It is very clearly spelled out in the story. We definitely know the motive. She was homeless, hungry and needed the grain. Our local Methodist church opened a tent city in it's back yard this summer for the homeless in our area. At least they were keeping it neat and clean rather than the unfortunate circumstances of other tent cities around the country. The neighbors complained and the city came in and are in the process of trying to shut the church's ministry to the poor down. So whose moral code are we going to follow in this circumstance? The government's codified laws, the self-justification moral code of the neighbors, or the ministry of a religious organization? And then tell me which moral code do you wish to support and which of those codes provides the closest to the Scout Oath and Laws? Then we can get into a discussion as to the sources of those codes.

And why do you think Ruth was in Boaz's field after losing her hustand?

Welcome, looks like you've been lurking for a couple of months, nice to see you getting comfortable enough to join in. I was a Venturing Advisor for 13 years, never went to a summer camp ever with my Crew. The last place I would take a Venturing Crew would be to the council BSA camp for a week regardless of the program offered. Instead: BWCA entry permit. Yellowstone back country permit Any section of the AT Fishing camp accessible only by airplane Bike trek that would earn a 50-miler twice each day. Take your week in the winter. (There are many out there that can attest to the fact that driving up Pike's Peak is quite a thrill. In the winter it is thrilling on steroids.) Canoe trek down a river staying only on sandbars. If my council asked me to do what @@ShootingSports is tasked with. I would politely decline. However, to be fair, here's my recommendation. Have 1-2 Philmont contingents just for Venturing Have 1-2 Sea Base contingents just for Venturing Have 1-2 BWCA contingent permits just for Venturing These people want high adventure, not summer camp.

It's all relative. A veteran scout who has gone down a certain section of whitewater in a canoe may not think it as HA as much as the new Webelo cross-over who has never had a paddle in his hands and now finds himself in the front of the canoe heading down some pretty scary rapids. Little does he know he's only ballast to hold down the front of the canoe for the veteran scout in the back.

As a scouter teaching scouts, I have a responsibility to teach correctly. Making a mistake is not the same as either not knowing out of ignorance because one did not study up prior to teaching, or two blatant disregard of the prescribed protocol for showing respect is a form of disrespect in and of itself. If the protocol does not specify then there is wiggle room. The US Flag Code has no prescribed manner in how the flag should be folded, so I teach the wiggle room provided by BSA and instruct my boys to fold in a triangle. I do, however, teach them that the US Flag Code does NOT prescribe the triangle fold, so any nice folding of the flag is acceptable. Repetitive disregard for the flag over time creates a whole new "tradition" of disrespect that is often paraded around as "correct" when in in fact is a blatant disregard to what the US Flag Code prescribes as appropriate respect. The only conclusion I come to when I see such activity going on and when sports figures drape themselves in the Flag and do all sorts of "really cool" things out of ignorance it only demonstrates to me a level of care-less-ness that I really don't want to be a part of . I follow the US Flag Code not because I'm avoiding a unenforceable fine, or the avoidance of scowling stares, but because it's important to me to do it as correctly as possible. As scouters we are all anal about getting every little jot and iota covered when we're dealing with advancement requirements, which in the long run really don't make a bit of difference to me. But when it comes to the US Flag, then whatever trips your trigger and floats your boat is Devil-may-care okay with anything goes, does a disservice to those around expecting something done right. Well, I think this whole thing kinda gets summed up with "On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country...." Well his is one's duty to their country to do it correctly.

The only one that can determine whether it was going to be "enough" is you. Sounds like it would be nice, though.

I am not a Hebrew scholar but I have many friends who are. I have been told that the exact translation of this commandment is "Thou shall not be a murderer." Hopefully someone who can read Hebrew and has a Torah handy can validate that.

As one who teaches flag protocol to the next generation of people, I want to leave a legacy that I taught according to that which is prescribed by the US Congress and BSA as respectful. I'm not a fan of making up rules as we go along especially at a particularly solemn occasion. Whereas the scouts and scouters may think they are doing it respectfully, if a veteran came up to me and made a comment such as this Marine did, I would be totally embarrassed. I didn't put myself in harms way to protect that flag, but he did. If he's uncomfortable with the way I handled it, I totally missed the point and would learn never to do it again. I'm thinking that if one were to adhere to the US Flag Code and the BSA Handbook that there wouldn't be any Marines coming up and asking embarrassing questions about what I taught these boys. My boys will no longer attend a certain Boy Scout summer camp because oi EXACTLY this issue of how to do a flag ceremony using the directions given in the US Flag Code and BSA Handbook. If others wouldn't be embarrassed if questioned by a veteran like this, then I guess the onus of the problem doesn't lie with the veteran.

We are all ships sailing the vast oceans of the unknown. All of us leave a wake.

A backpacking one burner stove has its niche. A double-bladed kayak paddle has its niche. A water purification system has its niche. A troop trailer has its niche. I'm sure hammocks do well in certain circumstances as well. I have never found them to be all that practical, but then again thinking it was possible to take the troop trailer to Philmont was a bit impractical as well.

Honor among thieves is a moral code based on trial and error. I'm thinking that whenever self-justification gets involved there's going to be problems. Like Barry says, there has to be a moral anchor that is outside of one's self-concern arena to give a true definition of moral codes. MY moral code has it's roots in a foundation. It might not be picture perfect because of my self-directed concerns and self-justifications I may add on to it, but if the basic core doesn't change, my re-definitions are pretty much meaningless over time. Social norms may prevail in the short run as well, Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't make it morally correct. So where's the moral code when people say it's okay for starving people to steal bread for their family and then lock them up when they do it. Okay, then it's okay for starving people to stead bread for their family when they can get away with it. Self justification is a great deception tool when used against any morality codes out there, especially those which originate from a deity. So to answer the question, in the realm of self justification, yes. In the realm of external moral codes, no.

Kinda makes one an advocate for boy-led. The adult-led stuff is far more confusing and abusive and causes far too many problems along the way.

When I was a kid 50+ years ago, I was appalled when I read about the "sophisticated and culturally advanced" the Romans were, yet if they didn't like their infant child for some reason it was taken out into the woods to die of exposure. But then again it was a revulsion to read about how the Russian Communist would take children from their parents and put them in day care all day long so the parents would work. Oh, how one pines for the innocence of youth. Just because a social norm changes, doesn't mean it's an automatic change in social morality. It takes a while for society to justify itself into convincing the masses it's okay to do. This type of mass social manipulation has been going on since the dawn of time.