Stosh

@@WinonaPack9 Welcome from the next town down river. I would tend to want to keep the old gang together for a couple of reasons. The parents will be happier (that's important) and their rational of bonding from the year before is valid. New guys with a new DL. No problem, everyone starts fresh and it's no big deal. If the newbie DL needs guidance, the old DL is just a phone call away. Just train your DL's and trust their judgment. As long as they have the boy's best interest at heart, things will go well. It sounds a bit like you're too worried over nothing. The new leader and new den will do just fine on their own, bond like the first den and a year from now you'll wonder why you bothered to put this on the forum.

What's a "class-B"?

There's a kid who knows what a Good Turn is all about.

Hmmmm, I kinda thought that out of the SM and adult leaders; the parents; and the boys, that the boys were supposed to be the ones in control of the program. I must of missed the memo where the adults were to fight over who runs things.

@PA Scoutmaster The Americans overseas are within the realm of BSA. Usually military personnel's kids. They receive the same program as the BSA in the physical US.

Both boys are best friends. Both boys worked on their scouting ranks together. Both boys wanted to Eagle at the same time and have their ECOH together. Both boys finished at the same time. Both boys were coached by me at the same time and heard the same words. Both boys had their EBOR on the same night with the same panel of board members. One boy chose to listen to what I had to say. One boy chose to do his own thing. The one who listened to what I had to suggest had a very positive EBOR experience. The one who decided he knew better than my suggestions had quite a negative, but successful EBOR experience. The point I was making was that my coaching style is not the end all to be all and when all is said and done the SM's might think they're God's gift to scouting, but eventually it always ends up the boy's decision and the results are because of the choices THEY make. To me, the effectiveness of the SM and his or her own perceived self perception, right or wrong, good or bad, the boys making their own choices in life is what true boy led is all about. It's all about the boys, not the leaders.

As a adult after m first operation I did have a couple of good years and played in the church league, but they eventually made me quit. I was "too competitive" and the other teams said I always cheated. I would coach the team to hit it just over the heads of the infielders but not out to the outfielders. One bounce always got you a base. The other team began to "catch on" and the outfielders would start moving up, Once the bases were loaded, pop one over the heads of everyone. Doesn't need to clear the fence, just the outfielders. Then they caught on to bases loaded, they fall back, but you keep dropping short and the runs pile up. They they try and anticipate. Start back and run up as the pitch is delivered. That way the batter needed to see what the infielders did while the pitch is coming in. Got to be quite funny at times to see the infielders falling back into the outfield and the outfielders running in only to have the batter slug away. We didn't lose many games. Maybe if @@Krampus was on the other team it would have been more difficult.

Okay, it was funny the first time, but now you got me worried.

No one-on-one. If there are 3-4 boys in the room and a second adult out of sight you should be good to go. Read your gut, are these boys you can trust? If I have a boy that I have had words with about something, then I make it a point always have a second adult around. That same boy would not ever ride in the car with me without a second adult as well. G2SS is for my protection. I don't worry about the kids, just me. That's how I've lasted 45+ years as a volunteer working with youth.

I coached the boys for the EBOR and for some it really paid off. The one boy did EXACTLY what I told him to do. I sat in on the EBOR as SM. The boy came in stood at attention and saluted. The Board members didn't know what to do. They looked back and forth at each other and finally one says, "As you were,... You realize that as a scout it is not appropriate to salute other scouts, just the flag." To which the boy replied, "Not according to the Boy Scout Handbook, sir. Would you like me to show you, I have my book right here." They were a little rattled. They then started with a question, to which the boy elaborated to the point where they had to interrupt him to ask the second question. They got in 4 questions. I kinda felt sorry for them. The other boy came in and stood there looking around waiting to be told to sit down. He then proceeded to answer with one or two word questions maybe for some a whole sentence. I kinda felt sorry for him. The Board members spent the whole hour trying to pull information out of him so they could pass his board. Just because you coach doesn't mean the boys are going to listen. The first boy went on to be the Eagle Scout speaker at the Golden Eagle Banquet fundraiser for the Council. I coached him to keep it at 10 minutes so no one would have to interrupt him to quit so they could move on.

Little butter and fish fillets is all you need. Salt and pepper to taste. Lemon pepper for a bit of variation.

Welcome aboard!

Welcome to the forum, good to have you on board.

Okay, then I"ll play nice.

No coaching in advance? I coach all my boys at the SMC on what they might do to have an effective and productive BOR. I had two Eagle candidates having the EBOR on the same night both best of friends. I coached them both on what they might do for the EBOR. One boy took my advice, answered 4 questions and had a really positive experience. The other boy did not listen to my coaching, had a bad experience and likened it to an interrogation rather than a BOR. If coaching up front has a potential of making the experience a positive one, then I'd say, "Go for it."

Translated: I work for the government on contract, I don't know what it is I'm supposed to do because I'm kept in the dark all the time. Am I close @@Krampus ?

Pocket knife, spoon and cup is all I ever take on a backpack trek. The metal cup is hard to drink out of and hold when it has hot food in it, but one can cook in it if necessary.

After multiple knee surgeries my athletic career was over before I turned 30. I did the 110 miles of Philmont wearing a knee brace. I am scheduled for an appointment with an orthopedic surgeon in December for more. Not everyone has that opportunity in life. My knee brace has never kept me from sitting round the campfire with my scouts though.

@ya lazima vumbi Well @@Krampus might have the correct BSA uniform and socks, but does he have official BSA underwear? Did anyone bother to check that?

Okay, it's gotta be something in the water here that's different. It has been my experience that the NSP tends to go to bed first, even at times complaining they don't want to go to the campfire and if they do, they sleep through it anyway. We had a camporee once where they were going to do an all-nighter and sleep in in the morning. My NSP ended up losing one of the boys and all the troops went into panic mode trying to find him in the dark. He had gone as far as he could, laid down and went to sleep. It took almost a half hour to find him. They are also the first up and going in the morning getting breakfast ready. Of course they haven't learned older boy bad habits yet and the ones pushing the envelop are my middle to older aged boys. There's a time in there that just doesn't fit with doing things the way the world wants them to. I guess if given a choice I'd prefer it being a hassle with the older boys, their peers usually force conformity or go without eating a couple of times and face the wrath of their peers. I usually consult with their PL before any SMC to get feed back as to their Scout Spirit in the patrol. PL's have no problem telling it the way it is. The NSP PL usually if he's not a new boy himself does well in making sure the boys all get a chance at advancement so there's very little hassle and if their is a roster it isn't written down nor posted because I've never seen it.

@@Eagle94-A1 - what you are describing is basically how a Dutch Oven SHOULD be used. Put everything into the one pot, i.e. stew. Move ashes from the campfire, dig hole in the hot ground, dump coals in bottom put in DO, cover with coals, cover with dirt, and keep a fire going on top all day long. Dig up supper that evening.

At summer camp the camp commissioners wanted a duty roster posted in each campsite. It is the only time I have ever seen the boys put one together and it was totally ignored throughout the week. Everything seemed to get done quite well without it, too.

This is what one of our local troops did with a 45# turkey. It was too big for any oven but this worked out fantastic. By the way, it took a bit longer than 4 hours.

$54? Really? - @@Krampus did you buy stock in the company? There are parents out there that won't buy a used pair of scout pants for half that. Naw, the cheapie http://www.brownells.com/emergency-survival-gear/food-amp-cooking-supplies/cooking-supplies/5-piece-aluminum-cook-set-sku100016270-74834-155218.aspx?cm_mmc=cse-_-Itwine-_-pricegrabber-_-Aluminum%20Cook%20Set&gdftrk=gdfV21820_a_7c187_a_7c828_a_7c100016270_d_100016270_d_22437will do just fine.

@@blw2 The cheapest aluminum mess kit on the Walmart shelf will do just fine. I think the hot spots will be there but they won't be as noticeable as the thin steel more expensive ones.. Stay away from the stainless steel copper bottom with Teflon fry pans, just a waste of money. The only thing to watch out for is aluminum bends rather easily so make sure you maintain the best seal you possibly can. Cut the top and bottom off a small tin can, lay on its side and step on it to flatten The flatter the better. This is your bottom spacer. Break off the stupid little plastic bead handle on the boiler and replace with a nut and bolt. Use the plastic cup for a backup or toss. It usually does have measuring markings on it so it might be good for something. The boiler is a bit tight to cook in but small muffins work rather well. Otherwise use the metal cupcake liners all by themselves, that works too. 4 charcoal briquettes on the top and 3 briquettes on the bottom should be enough for 350o. If you see smoke coming out of the seal area, it means you have bent the cover/pan enough that you might want to bend it around a bit or come up with another $15 for a new one. Remember the fry pan is not as deep as the dish, depending on what you're making that might make a difference. There is no "easy" way to get it in and out of the fire except brush off the coals When you are plop camping and aren't as worried about the weight a small vice grips to replace the wing nut and bolt in the handle makes it easier to open and check. Don't do it often, the heat source is small and takes a while to recover opening. You can do reasonably well with the time indicated on the box if the temperature calls for 350o.. Start small with inexpensive items. Maybe do a hobo dinner with the mess kit instead of foil to see how well it works for you. I normally just boil the carrots and potato in the boiler, fry up the hamburger/onion, put hamburger on plate, add a bit of flour and water to the fry pan to make a gravy, mash potatoes after picking out carrots which get butter/brown sugar glaze on them then add potatoes next to the hamburger pour on the gravy and enjoy. It is so much better than picking charcoal bits off of aluminum foil. After a while take along a bit of Bisquick and make small little muffins that you bake on the spacer. Do that in the fall and toss a bit of crushed raspberries/blackberries on top. If you're near a blueberry bog, that's even better, just mix them in. If you go with the box mixes, remember they make 12 muffins, make sure you have a ton of buddies around with their mess kits ready too. They usually take some oil and eggs and bit of milk too. Bisquick has powdered milk and eggs in the mix already. Bisquick is cheap and you can try a half dozen times in an afternoon until you figure out the fine details. Heat source: too hot = black on the outside, raw on the inside. Heat source not hot enough = dried out all the way through and no browning. Also remember your briquettes last only about 45 minutes before losing heat. if you're using wood equivalent, the coals last about half that long even if you're using oak. It doesn't really take that long to figure it all out. It's good to journal your attempts at the beginning so as to match results to the configuration attempted.