Stosh

I guess I'm not too worked up about when and were in as much as what is and what isn't the official uniform. I posed the question in another place and no one has bothered to answer so I'll ask again. IF, and that is a big IF, the privilege of hand saluting the American Flag while in civilian clothing is reserved only for those who have faithfully served our country in the armed forces, doesn't it deserve a proper definition of what constitutes a full official uniform of the BSA so the boys who are not in FULL uniform know whether to salute with the scout salute or use the civilian hand over the heart salute. The boys that have been taught that they can use the scout salute whenever and wherever they wish show an arrogance that they rank up there with our honorable veterans. Which for me personally I haven't the time of day to correct such ignorance. It's a matter of attitude, not whether or not it's a uniform. My boys wear full uniform for all scout activities, period. At summer camp once, two of my boys were a tad late getting back from the waterfront and showed up for closing flags wearing their scout shirt and swim trunks. My boys in full uniform saluted with the scout salute, the two in uniform shirt and swim trunks saluted with the hand over the heart salute. It was rather unfortunate that the SM of the troop next to us said to my two boys, "If you have the shirt, you salute with the scout salute." to which one of the boys said, "I would salute that way if I were in full uniform. But I'm not in full uniform." The other SM chose at that point to drop the subject, I suppose because he was wearing blue jeans. Sure my boys push the envelop, play the games and such but when it comes to the US Flag, uniforms and respect for veterans, they know the scoop. No boy ever carries the Flag or calls the commands at flags unless he is in full uniform. If no one fits that bill for some reason, they don't do flags. So, then, what salute are boys being taught when they are wearing activity shirts and not field uniform shirts? What salute is being taught when they are wearing only half the uniform. Or what about just one piece of the uniform? Just the shirt they do one salute, just the socks or just the belt they do what? What about "class-B" t-shirt and blue jeans? I just make it easy. In uniform you use the scout salute anything else, you use the civilian salute out of respect for our veterans.

@@boomerscout I know it's just a typo, but the moderators might take issue with your spelling. The proper spelling is half-fast. Be more careful next time.

Totally agree with @@DadScouts

It always pays to do a little hustling!

Yep, I paid for my uniform, my equipment, my activities by shoveling walks, mowing lawns, raking leaves, etc. My parents only paid for my registration fee and Boys Life. If the troop was selling stuff I still went door-to-door when I didn't need funds because the money I was raising doing that went all to the troop and my buddies and I benefited by supporting the program as a whole. We didn't have individual accounts back then.

Not even when the Scout catalog explicitly stated that even the blue jeans that BSA sold were to be worn with parts of the BSA uniform.

And yet we have scouters that feel it's okay to drink alcohol at District/Council dinners as long as one doesn't wear the uniform and in my example of being at a State Park with adults in one camp site and boys in another, that must mean by letter of the law in G2SS the adults if not in uniform can have a beer. Don't doubt my words, there have been scouters that have self-justified this very thing along with the District/Council Dinner issue.

Jump to any conclusion you wish and feel sorry all you want.... I don't drink either. Oh, I take that back, I only drink at home on special occasions. I am conceal carry so I can't drink anywhere else.

Interesting document, Now more than ever, I would find it difficult to justify $150 to sit through what I already know. Every lesson has a evacuation procedure attached to it and most say go fast or go really fast, it's life threatening. So how does one comfort the patient for 2 days because from your training you have a pretty good idea that this person isn't going to survive the situation because you aren't going anywhere for 2-3 days?

Or maybe I should have said, just keep asking until you find someone that will give you the answer you want to hear.

So welcome to the world where whatever you do is "right" according to someone.

Nothing, it relates to whether or not one is in scout uniform or not. If I put a mentor pin on my uniform does that mean I'm no longer in uniform and can drink alcohol? If I wear a neckerchief instead of a tie on civilian clothing can I drink alcohol? How about a "class-B" camp t-shirt? can I drink alcohol? If there is nothing out there that provides what is and what isn't a uniform and what can and what can't go on it, it would make a lot of sense in knowing whether to scout hand salute the flag or use the hand over the heart salute, and whether one can have a beer at the campfire, too. Lets see. State Park plop camping. The boys are in one camp site and the adults in another. None are wearing their scout shirts, but one is wearing scout pants and another has a camp t-shirt with blue jeans. Who gets beer and who doesn't? Fuzzy Logic.... everyone has a different level of what it means when there are no distinct guidelines and official uniform to operate from. Oh, we do have an official uniform? Really? It's really hard to tell nowadays.

To this day I used floor-less, zipper-less tents in questionable camp areas. And as soon as one starts feeling wet, you move to higher ground. Never been in a flash flood, but I've had my share of creek risin's over the years. In questionable areas, I have always been the one who picked the lowest ground so that I would be the first to raise the alarm. Only needed to do that once and it was not really an emergency situation, just annoying.

Fuzzy Logic: at what point does being in uniform moving along the continuum does it become not being in uniform? A pin? 2 pins?

And so in conclusion, I will sum it all up by saying that the boys are 100% correct, scouts and scouters who wear mix and match, whatever they want, however they want uniforms, look DORKY!.... and so don't blame me for dumping my uniform before leaving the building and going out in public. Whatever the uniform du jour happens to be put a few patches of anything you like on a tan shirt, get a bandanna and knot it around your neck and you'll make a great looking scout for Halloween this year and won't infringe on any BSA legal sanctioned logos ever made.

BSA explicitly says no blue jeans with the Cub Scout uniform, yet the majority of boys are taught by the adults to wear the blue jeans with the uniform shirt. And before anyone jumps on the "The adults never teach the boys to wear blue jeans with their uniforms" bandwagon, a boy shows up with uniform shirt and blue jeans.... SM/DL says nothing...Lesson learned, end of discussion. It's as simple as that, the adults don't care, so the boys don't either. Those adults who do make a stink are treated in their units the same way they are treated on this forum.

I don't mind paying for meals at training, or having the option to bring my own. If I wanted to have certain training, i.e. WB and it's not required by BSA, then I should foot the bill. But any training that is required, needs to be at no cost. My wife just dropped the Master Gardeners organization which she held office in for a few years. Her rationale? $200 to get certified and then $$ for various seminars, lectures and such to maintain certification and basically ended up weeding other people's project gardens throughout the city. One doesn't need training for that. The cost to benefit ration was way out of proportion. End of story, she now weeds just her own garden and city gardens on her own time. She also does work at the community food gardens where others will benefit from her volunteer hours. She doesn't need to pay anything to volunteer there. If BSA is going to compete for volunteers' free time, they better figure out the system on how others are winning and BSA is finding people have no time to help out. Another case of BSA's failed decision making policies.

Times may change, but people don't. I went to my scout meeting last week and no one showed up. I went home after a 15 minute wait at the meeting place. A couple of days later my email notified me that the meeting place had been changed by the ASM and notified the boys with phone calls at the last minute and me with an email sent 1 1/2 hours before the meeting start. I didn't read the email because I was repairing the tire on the canoe trailer so the boys could start canoe lessons as they requested the meeting prior. So much for boy-led processes being reinforced in the new troop.

Worry is a waste of time, although I do it as well knowing that. Risk on the other hand is something everyone has been involved with since birth. All one can do is recognize that prudent learning and skill development SOMETIMES reduces that risk, but none of it ever goes completely away. The Mrs. hold me one of her friends from Alaska just lost a son to a heart attack. He had no idea he had heart disease, he was 35 years old. Mrs.'s first husband had his first major stroke at 38. No one knows until the cards are dealt what the game is going to be.

Naw, if I'm going to go the way I want, it's going to be along some less traveled trail than peacefully in bed in a nursing home. I figure I would need a massive heart attack so there wouldn't be any pain when I hit the ground. That might sound rather flippant, but I'm dead serious. (pun, of course, is deliberate. )+-

We do as well, there are a number of collection points for aluminum cans all around the city with the name of the charity marked on them. None of them are BSA, but a lot of school booster clubs, boys/girls club, etc. seem to have them full most of the time. I have no idea how often they are emptied and whether or not they are really feasible.

@@Eagle94-A1 Yep, every step of the way, and the worst feeling in the world is showing up to treat an injury knowing that no matter what you do, it's not going to help. I was team lead on my ambulance squad for many years. I was involved in 14 CPR situations, even when we witnessed it. Procedures were follow precisely, airway tubes put in, 100% oxygen pumped in by face mask and CPR compression done by certified CPR American Heart Association Instructors who annually met technique standards of recording Annies. and yet none of the patients survived. We were 30 minutes from any medical facilities. Sometimes it just isn't in the cards. I knew at age 50 at Philmont that cardiac arrest was a possibility.... I went anyway. I got dealt a good hand, not everyone does.

You can be assured that your suspicions are correct and it is a very sad example of what an Eagle project should be. The SM of this boy is an Eagle scout with 2 palms..... The boy's two older brothers are Eagle scouts, .... and his dad is the SM. It was his older brother that I had work an extra 6 months proving to me he was Eagle material before I would sign off on a recommendation for him. I sometimes wonder which the the adults was the one that felt I expected too much leadership and was removed....only to be replaced by this boy's dad.... Welcome to BSA politics and Paper Eagles And by the way, the boy in the full-uniform picture is the Eagle scout that wears my WB beads....

@@Krampus You have to realize that pencil whipped orienteering, on-line weather training/reading, and the inexperience of both scouts and scouters, isn't going to make a bit of difference in most situations. This unfortunate accident was the result of a comedy of errors on the part of all who participated and the lost of just one life is evidence of how lucky they were in spite of that. Remember map reading and map understanding are two different things. Going to bed with a clear sky above means nothing when you're in a valley, even in Iowa!