Stosh

How is BSA any different than any other non-profit organization out there. Churches provide services done by volunteers. Red Cross provides services done by volunteers. Salvation Army provides service done by volunteers. How many do I need to identify to let one know that BSA is providing a program of service to our youth and they are setting policies right and left dictating what can and can't be done, directing everything along the way and somehow they aren't responsible for the content and quality of the program? Surely you jest....

I'm not an English major, but I was a verbal communicator at one point of my career. Written communication in today's world is a whole new experience for most people. Take for example the brilliant and eloquent writings of the 18th and 19th centuries. Ever wonder why? Because they were writing to people they cared about and they were using a quill pen. It is a slow and arduous effort to write, the pen had to be dipped every few letters. During the time of re-inking the quill, people had to think carefully about each and every word. Today, they flash out a keyboard message and with little or no thought and quickly click the send button.

John Wilkes Booth "made a difference." He changed the course of American history. That's gotta count for something.

If one is in the market to provide a service to the public, the #1 job would be to actually provide that service. Nope we have people in an ivory tower promising grandiose programs of adventure and fun and do nothing to service the promise. Everyone knows that repeat business in the car market is not based on car sales, but on car service after the sale. BSA needs to learn this.

I guess I wouldn't call them technicalities in as much as I would refer to them as audit interpretation and the mood of the auditor. I have been audited a couple of times over the years and it is not a pleasant experience. And you say, "how picky are they? One was a transposition error. The math was correct, it didn't change anything on the tax owed, but the scary part was they caught the error. The $50,000 withdrawal from my bank savings account to put down on a house was the other. A professional accountant was needed to clear that one up. These people play rough, one doesn't want to get on their wrong side. ISA's? Nope, not worth the extra work and definitely not worth a round or two with the IRS wasting my time trying to explain my interpretation to them.

The reality is, scouting is a program that is sold by marketers and sales people who work for a paycheck. The rest of us volunteer to implement the program

It"s all part of the disconnect process required of every professional scouter. These people would never say what they say without it.

That's what we do best.

I wonder how many nights of camping Amanda put in last year?

Council-wide Spookeree going on this weekend. My boys will not be attending.... They, like @@Krampus boys are heading to a Civil War event in the opposite direction. I do have to admit that the boys did attend the first Spookeree many years ago and ended up "working" the weekend for the Cub Scouts. This was such a big council "success" they have done it every year since. And my boys have taken a pass on it every year since.

I think my reaction is because I am sensitive to the attitude the wording implies. When an adult uses the phrase, "The boys...." it does not evoke the same feeling as when the adult says, "We..." or "I..." I is definitely a red flag, We can be interpreted either way but I would need to know the person better and how they were running their program. There are ways of expressing issues on a written only format that make a difference to the reader. This is but one of them. Another would be the more aggressive tone of the second person over the milder tone of the third person approach. 2nd Person: If you run your program as boy-led, patrol-method, you will be more successful. That is a lot more aggressive. 3rd Person. If one were to run their program as boy-led, patrol-method they would be more successful. It takes a lot of the confrontational feeling out of the wording. I also think a lot of people use certain wording because it indicates an accurate but subtle statement of how things really are for them. I would love it if everyone on the forum were to brag about what their boys are doing instead of what they are doing.

That, in and of itself, will do just fine to memorialize and remember those veterans appropriately.

And what makes anyone think that prizes won are not counted as income. Even the Lottery winners need to be paying taxes on their winnings. I have known for years that contestants on TV shows have to pay taxes on their winnings. If people go off to Disneyland as a prize and don't claim it on their taxes, it's not BSA's fault. But an IRS audit of that family could turn ugly rather quickly. A friend of mine won a brand new pick up truck in one of the school raffles and had to sell it to pay for the taxes. He of course sold it for more than the taxes so he did walk away with a few extra bucks, People also don't realize that most states that have sales taxes also have use tax codes. That means if I buy something on the internet and the product originates from out of state I don't need to pay sales tax, but come time at the end of the year, I need to declare use tax on my state return. Otherwise I am committing tax evasion. Remember that's the trick that got old Al Capone in hot water. Each of these issues are the responsibility of the individual not the organization giving out prizes or handing out money or paying earned income to individuals involved in fundraising. The only thing that will get the BSA unit in trouble is implying that their practice allows the fundraiser purchaser or donor the ability to claim that as a charity donation, when it was not. That's what jeopardizes CO's non-profit status. It still doesn't let the individual off the hook for needing to claim the money is personal income. If I shovel the neighbor's walk and he gives me $10 cash and I don't claim it as income on my taxes, I am committing tax fraud. It's a bit like speeding, it's okay as long as you don't get caught.....

Nope these were US soldiers that were killed.while serving under NATO Canadian commanders. It was as if because Canada was responsible for them and they were killed, they became recognized as equal to other Canadian veterans. There is a bit of that same mentality here in my area of the world. The Laotian and Cambodian veterans march in full uniform in our Memorial Day parade. No one thinks it out of the ordinary and welcomes them appropriately.

@@walk in the woods My son is ADHD and suffers from severe depression. He was given every opportunity to work it through in the high school special education section, extensive outside therapy, and everything we could think of to help him get over his "poor me" attitude. He has now cut himself off from all his friends, family, and maintains a relationship only with his daughter. I haven't seen him for at least 10 years and the last I heard he is still living in the same city as I do. He can't hold down a job and the last I heard he was trying to get Social Security Disability. "How long is this boy's autism excuse going to hold up in life. Sooner or later he's going to need to step up to the plate. Don't take away his opportunity to do better than what society has labeled him." Well, he chose to not step up to the plate and instead chose to keep his ADHD excuse. It has cost him everything. Well according to him the whole world is stupid and he's the only sane one in the bunch. Well, if one wishes to assume I'm rude, so be it. I just hope I'm rude enough that people challenge others no matter what their physical, mental, or emotional disabilities to be better than what society labels them. I believe Scouting is an excellent program to be able to do that. Over the years I have had autistic, ADD, ADHD, depressed and mentally retarded in my troop. For all those PC people who just sucked all the air out of the room, I use the word retarded rather than challenged. Retarded means slowed down. Challenged means there's an obstacle in the way that they have to work through. My 34 year old Life Scout was working on his Eagle Project and it was taking him a bit more time than everyone else. He functioned at a 10-12 year old level. Well, he was slowly making progress and I made sure that in my unit the opportunity for that progress would not be impeded with any challenges.

I picked up a family cook set, nested pots, coffee pot, plates, fry pan, etc. at an antique store for $15 The only problem is it's for 6 people, not 8. It works nicely for the adult patrol, but right now with only 2 adults, mess kits work just fine.

Two issues I would like to share, kinda on topic, kinda not. First one is I observe Veterans' Day because it's important to me. Besides the 1 minute of standing silence at 11:00 am, in every conversation I have with people that day, I always ask if they are a veteran. If they say yes, I shake their hand and thank them for their service. On Memorial Day, only about a half dozen units march in the Memorial Day Parade. My boys do as well. However, only my unit stays for the cemetery program. It's really a shame, but we'll be there next year as well. The second issue that literally stunned me was last fall when I was doing the sweep through the Northeast with the fall colors. Yep, it was early November. In order to get to the Northeast from the Midwest, we cut across Canada. They have nice colors, too. Anyway, we hit Ottawa and did the tourist thingy while there. In the halls of the Parliament Building they had a veterans' display for those fallen in recent wars. I went down the line and read names and where they were from. Just a habit thing I've always done. I got to one large section and I was surprised the number of Americans from Texas, Minnesota, Ohio, Florida who were listed there, just like everyone else. I was amazed that so many Yankees would have gone up to Canada to fight with the Canadian forces. I saw a gentleman standing "guard" near the entrance to the display and walked up to him and asked if he was allowed to answer questions, he smiled and said, "Of course". I asked him why so many Americans had enlisted in the Canadian forces and if there was a reason for it. He informed me they didn't enlist in the Canadian forces, but these were soldiers, both men and women who were killed while serving under Canadian NATO commanders. This makes them Canada's responsibility and therefore they are just as much their veterans as their own countries'. Wow, that was more than we do with our own veterans.....There's a tribute I will never forget. If you wish to wish to honor the men, simply acknowledge that they fought and died for YOUR freedom, that makes them your veterans as well.

Okay, @@scoutldr, I see your point, but when I took the boys camping by the lake (Webelos II) if they were within 10' of the water they needed their PFD on. Yes, standing at the shore fishing required a PFD. I had no idea whether or not these kids could swim, but I knew they all knew how to put on a PFD and wear it.

We are bordered on one side of town by a river and on the other side hills. North of us are 3 troops vying for Cubs and south of us are another 2-3 doing the same thing. There used to be a couple of troops in the area many moons ago but have folded over the years. It's a no-man's land. We have 3 schools heavily recruited by the half dozen troops, but we're starting our new troop in this middle of this no-man's land. Our CO is 2 blocks from one of the schools and that pack just was moved over to our CO. We have two other schools we are competitively recruiting from as well. The long tradition of recruiting by outside units is indicative of the fact that all the scouts of our CO (a church) belong to other troops. The CO's boys come from the neighborhood and are all still working on S-FC skills at the present time. So when it comes to recruiting territories, we will compete with any and all units in the area. Of course we were instrumental in luring the one pack away from the school into our CO. Why not, all's fair in love and war. Of course our trump card is the fact that we are the only troop in the immediate area that runs heavily the boy-led, patrol-method and that helps give a recruiting edge.

First of all @@hmscouting welcome to the forum. (you've been around a while lurking, but that's good too.) This debate rages on here on the forum. Age based vs. mixed ages. Both have their benefit and limitations. I'm from the age based group and it sounds like the dynamics you describe, that's kinda what the boys are leaning towards. So, even thought it's my emphasis, I would go with what the boys want! It is good you are following the book for your structure, but you need to also be aware of the fact that your boys and your unit need to develop into what it is supposed to be, not what some book says it's to be. As far as "understanding the book", I feel it's more important to understand your boys and their needs and then work to meet those needs. Right now you have a young group with very little management or leadership skills. In my experience these are two different animals that need to be dealt with. Management of the troop should fall on the PL's. They are the ones designing the program for their boys and in this case the older boys can focus on a broader range of topics than the younger newbie boys. They might be focusing in on S-FC skills and the older boys, planning outings and learning to work together as a group. I would make sure your boys are lead by the most experienced and skilled of the boy leaders. They should be allowed to pick and choose that person on a daily basis until they find the right person for the job. Too often units set up a 6 month term cycle and if a boy gets elected to a leadership position that can't do the job, the group suffers for 6 months until the next election cycle. I don't do it that way, If the boy is struggling, signed up for sports, having trouble in school, or whatever, he can step down and be replaced in a heartbeat. Let the boys decide how they want to handle their leadership. I would think some sort of organizational training would be in order for the boys to grab onto the idea of the patrols. The old Green Bar Bill material is really good for that and BSA as other programs NYLT and TLT programs that will help with the management part of the program. Leadership will be different. It's not the directive and often "bossy" style that is mistaken for leadership in many troops today, but it is instead the boy that stands out as the one willing to take care of the others in his charge. A boy with this caring attitude can be taught to manage, but a directive manager will find it almost impossible to learn how to take care of his people. They seem to remain too focused on simply getting the job done and doesn't care who does it as long as it gets done. I have always had trouble dealing with boys like that and have found the natural caring leaders develop quicker and are more productive than the managers who when the boy balk at their insistence become frustrated and sometimes lash out. Get your nose out of the book and watch your boys for clues as to what they need to be successful and open up opportunities for them to act on those impulses. Scouting should be a place to try new things and if you fail, pick yourself up and try something else.A good leader has made many mistakes to get where he's at. He will never be able to train a new leader who fails unless he knows the routine on how to survive failure himself. Give me a boy who knows how to organize and I'll show you a good manager Managers focus on tasks. A good manager doesn't need to be a leader.. Give me a boy who cares about his people and I'll show you a good leader. Leaders focus on people. A good leader already knows what it is to be a good manager.... of people., not tasks.

Hey, these people must have been drinking from the Mississippi again,

And at a relatively low heat, medium and less on a cook stove, can produce non-stick results with cast iron. And if heated too much, unlike teflon, cast iron doesn't become toxic. As a light weight alternative to cast iron, stamp steel fry pans work just as well and are treated exactly the same. Medium might be too high a heat for the stamped steel. Cast iron spreads the heat more uniformly than stamped steel. And as an additional feature, one doesn't need specialty spatulas either. Any will work on cast iron and stamped steel... scrape away, nothing will harm it.

Just to add a bit to the process of gear, in my troop we don't go with the ISA, but we do have IPA's. Individual Patrol Accounts. The patrols get a portion of the fundraising moneys in the patrol account. Then they don't have to go to the treasurer every time they have an equipment request for them to handle. They can just handle it themselves. The boys kinda like the autonomy of the process and seem to do well with the money in their accounts. If the boys wreck a tent, they have the money to replace it, some for stoves, totes, or whatever else they feel they need. It also keeps the boys from pestering the treasurer with a lot of little requests. They simply go out and buy things and turn the receipt into the treasurer who then reimburses accordingly,no questions asked. It's kind of a petty cash account for the boys to be in charge of. That way the boys need a spatula, They simply head on over to Walmart, pick it up and keep the receipt. The only adult involvement might be mom who drives the boy over to the store and takes him back home.

Decades? Maybe, I was unaware of the practice prior to getting reinvolved with scouting as an adult. We never had it when I was a kid. No we can't cite examples of IRS going after BSA units on their fundraising procedures, but we can cite athletic booster clubs at the local schools getting pinched big time for it. Who's next? I really don't want t be the first on some IRS list of those that get audited and have to explain to my CO why they lost their not-for-profit status. By the way, our troop functions just fine without them.

Who has the time to think this stuff up? (I was nice, I used the word "stuff" like the moderators taught me.)