Stosh

@@2eaglesons Welcome to the forums and I appreciate your comment, it is spot on! If a leader has a special needs scout, they had better learn how to deal with it, the struggle is no where near what the boy is going through to just get to scouts.

Not all churches treat their members the same.

Two of my boys in my former troop wore the campaign hats and another wore the garrison cap. The honor patrol of the troop before that wore the expedition hats as a patrol.

Wouldn't this be a bit more effective if it were taught in the basic leadership training given to all new leaders? Why do they get basic training only to have to come back at an even greater expense to get the "real" training?

Unless one understands the functionality of a den flag, making a den flag ends up just another arts and crafts project.

If one does not have properly trained adult leaders and properly trained youth leaders, I would totally agree with the statement as well, but the goal of a good youth program, especially one that says it develops leadership is to be successful with delivering on the promotion that it can develop the participants. If the group is operating at a junior high level and never progresses beyond that, I would advise against it as well. In the BSA one is assumed to be a mature adult once they reach the age of 21. In the church, however, adulthood and full membership is assumed when the person is confirmed. That falls around late junior high age. I find it rather interesting that when treated like an adult, these people will begin acting like one at an earlier age than what most in our society would expect. The reason they don't expect it is because, I suspect, they have never tried it.

One never sees the stupidity of the situation until someone points it out. Venture Crew..... Co-ed..... BSA registered members...... High Adventure Trip...... 50 people sign up, to go, numbers equally balanced male and female..... Youngest age signed up for the trek is 18..... BSA requires a make and female chaperon leaders to be present on the trip. Does anyone else see the stupidity written all over this?

I have use a simple poncho for my backpack tent. Works just fine. When I'm not sleeping in it, it makes a good pack cover as well. When I'm hiking it covers myself and pack in the rain. We have plenty of bugs where we live too.

Both my boys bailed on me for this weekend's program. Mrs. and I went anyway.... Blue sky and sunshine, fantastic fall colors and they bailed on the most beautiful weekend of the year.

@@Eagle94-A1 Besides the units I UC for, I am involved with church youth groups, youth historical interpretation groups, youth canoe and kayak outdoor groups an youth school groups dealing with the school's outdoor program. The dynamics of scouting without the policy restrictions seem to generate more positive growth in their respective programs than those I deal with in the BSA program. The stuff that worked 50 years ago still work today. The stuff they do today doesn't seem to. I think.@@JoeBob is correct when he notes: "The decline is numbers is not a problem. The decline in the quality of the program is." When one uses the dynamics of "ancient Green Bar Bill" material and Greenleaf's Servant Leadership dynamics in a church youth group and one has its members serving on the church board, it's something that other people recognize as a positive contribution. Having free reign outside of BSA and the youth program thrives and the same person restricted by BSA policies political and legal and the programs struggle and flounder, one must seriously take a look at why that is happening. 70 scouts - 8 adults - National Jamboree 12 Venturing scouts - 6 adults - National 150th Gettysburg reenactment (50,000 participants) as reenactors 66 youth - 2 adults - Church youth gathering, downtown Minneapolis 112 youth - 3 adults - Church youth gathering, downtown New Orleans Anyone here on the forum have the courage to take 112 scouts anywhere with just 3 adults? Probably not, BSA won't allow it.

http://www.nonprofitlawblog.com/there-is-no-i-in-team-common-private-benefit-problems-for-booster-clubs/ This is a good read.

#2

Paper Eagles anyone?

Just so that everyone is on the same page, I used to work for an international multi-billion dollar company that gave out gift cards at Christmas to all employees. They were all added to the employee's "income" and identified to the IRS on their W-2 withholding. Any prize that the company gave out was dealt with the same way. By the way, the Christmas gift cards were $15 to help with the employee's Christmas dinner, good only at a local grocery store. If only BSA had such integrity.

And like my mamma said, "It's all fun until someone gets hurt." Boy Scout YPT is not the same as Venturing YPT, Lack of liability insurance for everyone is really an issue as well. There are not many people interested in wiring a house with the electricity turned on, but I'm sure there are those out there that do.

After watching things over the past 65 years. I have a pretty good idea of how things work. Ford, Chevy and Chrysler were pretty much the only cars on the road. Detroit ruled the world. Scouting was in its heyday. In my college finance class, it was noted that GM was too big to fail. The world changed, but the people didn't. People still drive cars, more cars than back in the 1960's.... Kids still are involved in youth programs. What makes Toyota better than GM? What makes Honda better than Ford? What makes soccer better than Scouts? Once one starts asking the right questions, they will start getting the right answers. Until then, I hope your Mustang keeps running another year. After all, Ford set the pace with that model in 1964, it's still around, never went away and one sees a ton of them on the road. What are they doing that GM and Chrysler aren't. So maybe the sky is falling, but don't worry, with one's head in the sand, they will never notice. I have studied business, marketing, and been involved with youth for 45 years. I have a fairly good perspective from where I stand. How's about Chamberlain's perspective?

Even in the hottest weather, I'm wearing a felt hat. There are ways to make them really comfortable. And without a hat, the sunburn that goes along with it is a lot more uncomfortable than the hat.

I wonder how many of the boys go into a MB totally clueless as to what's going on with it? Maybe they know a bit about it from doing Google searches on the subject. YouTube does well with instructional videos, too. Some things are a bit more hands on than others. Bugling one has to practice. If they are a trumpet player in band, they pretty much don't need a lot of "teaching" or "mentoring". Learn the song and teach it to the boys so they know what to do when they hear it.

Or I can just stick my head in the sand and pretend everything is running along smoothly like it was before we lost half the membership.

Okay, I'm game..... isn't the expedition hat felt, too? It doesn't have the vent holes, is darker to absorb more solar energy than the vented, tan campaign hat. I prefer the campaign hat in the summer and the expedition in the winter.

OMG, I just wanted 2 say 2days ppl just r so much more in2 it with like, ya no, talking n texting. Seriously?

Do what they do best, provide an outdoor leadership program for young boys as they develop into men. The more they try to please everyone in the world the more watered down their program becomes. Now finding vestiges of outdoors and leadership and boys is getting harder and harder to find. Co-ed, family STEM management seems to be the buzz du jour. And compare the current media and social reputation for American Red Cross, Salvation Army, and Boy Scouts of America rank from good to bad..... People are always going to whine about something, some organizations deserve it.

With the way the discussion seems to have veered off to, one would almost conclude that anything with horns is demonic.... and I'm going to assume that applies to all the bull that is floating around at the present time.

This has happened to athletic booster clubs and the parents involved had to pay even more than what they had fundraised. It is a subject that can easily be avoided.