Stosh

Except be a boy......

When I was teaching Webelos Outdoors 25 years ago, it amazed me the number of participants that stopped off at Walmart on the way to outdoor overnight training to buy a sleeping bag and tent. I even had some drop out because they were expected to actually sleep outdoors overnight in that tent. I was sleeping in my Civil War dog tent at the last camporee. Two shelter halves, no ends, no floor. Two of the boys came over to my tent and were all upset that the zipper on their tent wouldn't close. They didn't know what to do. Really? How about just go to bed, they were talking to the wrong person as I threw the wool blanket over my head and rolled over to sleep for the night. I never had a tent with a door and floor until I was in Scouts. Then they had a door and no floor. I was an adult in my 30's before I bought my first tent with a zipper. I took SM Fundamentals sleeping in a canvas tent with floor and zipper. I bought my first "real" tent with zipper door and floor when I was 45 years old. It was luxury. I tell the boys I sleep in open ended tents because if a bear comes into camp, I can get a head start on them running away.

This isn't how they approached Exploring..... This isn't now they approached Venturing...... What makes anyone think that Cubs and Boy Scouts is going to be miraculously different. Even if one has an all-boy Troop. The first year they show up at summer camp, they'll realize it's not the same as before.

If it walks like a duck......

I don't know if I would call it "burn out" in as much as I would call it "fear of the unknown". Walking in the woods is as foreign to many today as walking on the moon.

Betsy Ross didn't have a pattern to work from, at least the ladies today can make a pattern from existing flags. I do it all the time. in 1910 BSA had no scout uniform, but they were allowed by Congress to use current military uniforms instead. The uniform I wore at the Centennial Jamboree was a reproduction 1910 US Army uniform with BSA buttons and collar brass. Sea Scouts still carry on the tradition now for over 100 years. The "Smokey" hat is not named correctly. It has nothing to do with Smokey the Bear or State Patrol officers. It is the US Army regulation campaign hat that was worn by US Forestry Service employees. Campaign hat refers to the every day hat of the Army, not the dress hat worn by officers. Making flags, is a piece of cake compared to the hoops one has to jump through to get decent reproductions on other things. And by the way, a spark will burn a little hole in a cotton flag, Nylon? Yeah right, that will melt a huge hole, if not consume the whole flag. If one wants a durable flag, use dress wool fabric. It's surprising just how fire retardant wool is. Figuring these things out with a modicum of background information is not that difficult. Those that have, get surprising results.

Then why don't the powers that are in the BSA be more honest and call it what it is.

Too many chiefs and not enough Indians. (Sorry for the totally inappropriate PC reference, but it fits) Either the SPL/ASPL team or the PL/APL team are totally redundant and ineffective. One patrol, one PL and one APL is all that is needed. Add an SPL (and now the PL is circumvented.) If the powers to be focused in on GBB's patrol method instruction, the function of the SPL/ASPL, above could easily be covered by a patrol ActivityMaster. And not only that the ActivityMaster would be far more in tuned with what the patrol members wanted than the SPL. As a member of such an adult set up described, The last thing I would consider for a POR would be PL. It's a no-win option right from the start. With only one patrol, the patrol is the troop. If the SPL is running the troop/patrol, the PL is a useless POR.

If one spends their whole life eradicating bugs, animals, weather, nature in general and such out of the house, why would anyone want to go outside and try and coexist with them? Outside is a foreign concept to many in today's society. If all the amenities of our society were to somehow come to a halt, most would die off rather quickly. If it's too cold in the house, most people simply turn up the thermostat and never think of the other option of putting on a sweater. When one is outside, the sweater is the only option. For some, the lack of a thermostat is the end of civilization as they know it. Are these our future leaders in what Scouting will be tomorrow?

When I was a kid, I family camped. My parents prepared meals on a campfire all the time. It was family camping. When I went out with a group of uniformed boys that were friends, that was a Boy Scout troop. It wasn't the campfire cooking that made the difference, it was defined by who was with me at the time. A group of boys eating together in a restaurant could still be a Boy Scout troop. We did it all the time when we traveled to an activity.

Nope, one uses the when they are being sarcastic. I'm thinking this would be better.

Hmmm, I wonder if they still sell black, green, red, white, yellow and blue cotton cloth at the fabric store. Grommets are not a deal breaker and one only needs 2. I wonder if a quilter could pull off 4 hems and 6 seams and then sew down iron-on applique lettering. Grommets a problem? Go with a sleeve or sew button-hole grommets instead. Borrow another troop's flag for a pattern for measuring and lettering. Anyone ever consider approaching the quilting ladies at the CO church?

If one is managing a troop, one might as well call them departments. The Department of Newbies, Department of Members and Department of Veterans. If one is not too fussy on membership they can have the Department of This, the Department of That and the Department of Other Things. Take your cue off the nudging of your supervisory mentor and have a good day. Just git 'er done. If not it will be reflected in your performance review at the end of 6 months. Patrols have been outdated for the past 50 years, obsolete for the past 20. We have leadership though. Team Leads are specialty nudging supervisory mentors over a mixed-bag team of people too embarrassed to admit their involvement in the operation. That sound about right?

The bully wins every time one backs down. That's how the game is played. BSA and every member is being cowered into backing off every thing it once stood for because no matter what the issue was, it always assumed it was on the short end of the stick. That too is how the game is played. Individuals will feel embarrassed or persecuted? Which is it? They are two different things. That is how the game is played as well.

I wonder why YMCA and the YWCA became The Family Y and now just the Y It's a day late and a a dollar short coming on scene, but it's a bit of the same old, same old. And yet there seems to be a number of people who can't figure out "where this whole thing is going." If I were to take a wild guess, I'm thinking BSA is using the YMCA's business plan from ages ago and trying to duplicate it. Let's see Boy Scouts, then Family Scouts and finally just Scouts - Oh, how original......

Whether the CO wants to get involved or not, it's still their program. As mentioned above, they own it, they sponsor it, they provide the tax exemption, etc. What other people think and what constitute reality are often two entirely different issues. And if, like in this care, they DO get more involved, it's a bad thing? One minute I hear, the CO ignores us, the next minute the COR wants to do the rechartering.....???? It's their charter! Why shouldin't they have some oversight on it. I'm a bit confused too, even with everyone answering a vague OP.

Why is it so strange that the COR be involved in the rechartering process. After all, isn't he/she the one ultimately responsible for the membership make-up of the CO's unit?

The older scout literature used to refer to the PL as "Corporal". I'm sure that dropped when it portrayed the image of Scouting as too militaristic. After all a Scout, patrol, troop, etc. by definition are military terms. Kinda hard to get around that.

Like weather in Wisconsin. If you're not happy with the way it is now, just wait five minutes, it'll change. I just wish BSA wasn't as fickle as Mother Nature.

If one has both, great. If not, it's not the end of the world. The minimum requirement is the US Flag, anything else is pomp and circumstances. White gloves, snappy movements, sharp commands, and whatever one wishes to add is good. But when all is said and done. The unit flag, state flag, and everything else is not really necessary. Respect and the US Flag. That works for me.

How much of this adult "evaluations" add to the requirement? SM: "Hey, Johnny, how's that new PL of yours doing?" Scout: "Great!" SM: "I see there's a new QM." PL: "Yep, Freddie said he wanted to give it a shot. Doing okay, but not as good as the last guy. We'll get by as he gets better." Really? What's so difficult about this whole thing? If the boys are happy with the POR set up, why aren't the adults? Start with the adult's problem instead. This whole thread reeks of year-end job performance management practices of a large corporation doing multiple evaluations deciding on some supervisor's job promotion. Now, if that doesn't suck the fun out of the issue, nothing will.

We have a nylon, printed troop flag. No, it's not as nice as the older embroidered one. From 10' away it looks fine. From any distance away, not having one looks fine, too. The only reason my unit has a flag is because the adults wanted it. The boys couldn't care less about it. 99% of the time it's in the storage closet. Doesn't go outside where it will get dirty. Flag ceremony most of the time is done with just the US Flag.

Or why they have to deal with so much discipline from the boys acting up. Or why the boys "don't listen" to their leaders. And the list goes on. Adults, quit messing with the Patrol Method, it will work. NO! It will NOT turn into "Lord of the Flies". And when all is said and done, when things go south, the boys fix it on their own. And when things don't go according to the way the boys want it, one never gets accused of being the bad guy.

One would think that an issue as controversial as this was already getting "feedback" long ago with their little video, secret survey and invite only talks, the powers-to-be would have done their due diligence and gotten their ducks in order long before they said anything. Maybe it wasn't a lie, but it surely was properly bungled along the way.

When I went to Philmont we covered the 110 miles and caught all 5 of the major peaks. At age 50, it was rough. I have heard there are shorter, less peaks treks so it depends on which trek one pics. Northern Tier is pretty much flat. Duh! BUT, the portages can be quite arduous. We had a 3 mile portage along with probably another dozen or so getting in our 50 miler. Both are physically demanding, but Northern Tier, with the right planning should be easier on the boys. Smaller boys will need to double portage probably, once with canoe, once with gear. With Philmont it is a constant exertion of one's whole body and there's also the thin air that makes it more difficult if one is a flat-lander to begin with. I trained for 9 months before the trek, thought I had it made until I hit the thin air. I never did Northern Tier, but have been to BWCA a half dozen times. All self-planned or with another experienced scouter to train how to pack correctly for the trip. Got our own permit and planned our own route. Packed our own gear and designed our own menus. It worked out a lot cheaper than Northern Tier. Our last trip to the BWCA cost us less than summer camp and that included gas for the 1000 miles round trip to get there.