Stosh

There's always the YMCA and Boy and Girls Clubs, too if one can't find a troop that meets their needs. There's always more choices out there than hypothetical situations account for. If a young boy came to me and said he wanted a BOY scouting program and BSA was coed, I would have no problem recommending the TrailLifeUSA option that is locally available. One simply works at being helpful in getting the boys what he wants. We swim in an ocean, not a fishbowl.

Just about every stone I turn over I can find a wide variety of creepy crawly things..... Compost is great for the garden..... Turned over a pile once and found a rattle snake. I still like compost for the garden.....

We just ignore them. They go away after a while. Haven't had a FOS presentation for many moons now. Don't miss them one bit.

@@qwazse giving a non-coed option and two coed options is a bit of apples and oranges. Was this little poll a test of a certain hypothesis or just a random what say ye? Were we being polled on coed, adult-led, or some other consideration? If one is interested in all-male BSA, then there is only one answer, #1. If one wants coed then there's only 2 options, both pretty much the same. So your questionaire is not a question of program and program delivery, it's just an issue of all-male vs. coed.

A lot of that can and should be done in this situation depends on the skills of the leadership, both youth and adult. I have "taken back" disruptive boys and had no problems. Disruptive scouts who quit are still notified of any and all troop/patrol activities until their registration runs out and they don't recharter. I tend to think outside the box when dealing with such situations and when the boy can't second guess and figure you out, they are at a disadvantage. Peer pressure along with adult guidance goes a long way to make up for poor parenting at home. The discipline and boundaries provided by Scouting is usually what these boys need more than getting punished, kicked out or told they can't return. How does one work that out in light of the Scout Law? We can't all be dealt 100% well adjusted, politie scouts all the time. Some of the boys are going to be Tom Slade.

There still are camps out there that when the boys show up, the tents and dining flies are all rolled up nicely ready to be set up for the week. Still others are draped for summer over pole frames on wooden decks. With those camps, one might as well have a cabin.

I'm with @@sst3rd on this one, I'd still be looking for the all-male #2 or #3. Which in a few cases, we already have.

There's no such thing as too much backup of one's records.

Nope, but I've done it many times against the book after discussing it with my SE and gotten approval from him. Then of course the case can always be made that "by the book" is nothing more than someone's interpretation. Let's put it this way. Has my advancement processes ever been questioned by anyone? either too lenient or too strict? Nope. Ever bent the rules on G2SS? After forty-five years of working with youth, still at it with no accusations or challenges. Do I teach BSA NYLT management dynamics and call them leadership? Nope. Do I teach the Patrol Method when BSA ignores it? Yep So, in a way, a case can be made that I don't always "follow the rules". But when the council needs a UC or someone to start a new troop in a rough part of town, why is it they call on me? Why is it the District Commish is my ASM and doesn't have a famiy member in the troop? One can't turn out quality Eagles by reinterpreting the rules.

A small handful of people don't make a majority, but a small handful of whiney people get media coverage sufficient to turn a program into something it was never designed to be. In our narssasistic entitlement culture of today, everyone is entitled to be a Paper Eagle.

I do believe flexibility for special needs scouts is a policy of the BSA and is addressed at a higher level than the local unit's interpretation of what's fair. I had a 34 year old scout working on his Eagle Rank, all on the up and up and no interpretive flexibility on my part.

Whether it be a musical concert, a sport event, some form of entertainment, trip, or outing, NOONE out there is going it 3-4 times so that all the kids get a chance to sing, play or enjoy. Every seasonal concert, every football game, every theater production meant you showed up when it was being held or you missed out on it. End of discussion. Where does it say that one has to do something over and over until everyone with other priorities out there gets a chance to participate? Sorry, Charlie, the train has left the station. Once for sure, twice is nice, but that's about it for most events.

Anything less than draft registration for all women who turn 18 years of age would be demaning and promoting the hypcrisy of a men's only obligation. Other countries around the world expect their women to be involved in their national security, why not the US? @@Charles le Martel well said, welcome to the forum.

Isn't that going to hurt their self-esteem? A scout is supposed to be Friendly and Kind. We need to be handing out Eagle Rank like Halloween candy. It makes everyone feel special.....and once everyone is special...... well.

I just hope the end of the slippery slope isn't at the evaluation of the scout's qualifictions for Eagle.

http://www.kcci.com/news/route-for-2015-ragbrai-announced/30907344 462 miles in 7 days? But don't be discouraged only 8,500 people are allowed on the ride and are selected by lottery so there are a ton of people out there wanting to go on this trip. It only costs $175 for the week. 25 miles on two consecutive days?.... Cupcake. Europe has a better bike hike, 11 days, 100 miles a day.....

But they have the right to challenge it. That's all that counts. Leadership development is an interplay between courage and knowledge. Young boys today lack both and are led blindly by adults who make up rules faster than they can learn them. Parents have their rules. Schools have their rules. Churches have their rules. The government has their rules. BSA has their rules. None of these have sacred enough cows that they can't withstand a little leadership challenge of the next generation of leaders. If my boys get their knuckles slapped a few times, so what, it's part of their learning process. History has shown there have been a lot of great leaders that stated out with a hopeless cause against an unjust rule. Ya never know unless ya try.......

In order to get the RAGBRAI bike ride completed in a week, at least one of the days is always +100 miles. Not bad for thousands of people to get in each year, some of which are grade school aged. If planned accordingly, Cycling MB could be done in less than a week.

1) First Aid - 15+ years as a Nationally Certified EMT-A volunteer in a small town where there were no medical services when I started and I founded the ambulance service over the course of the first 2 years. I have no idea how many lives I may have saved over those 15 years. 2) Personal Finance - my credit score is 0 and I owe no one anything and no one owes me. Moving into retirement with more money than I need. Shakespeare had it right. 3) Cooking - LOVE to cook, love to eat even better.

No argument here, they've been on the slippery slope for a long time, it's just that now they're beginning to see what they should have seen a long time ago, like say, 30 years ago???? No need for a Devil's Advocate here, the Devil's in the detail that they sold to him (along with their soul) many years ago. I personally think it more of a "digression" rather than a "progression." Not many of us have had the luxury of eye-witness observing the changes over the past 50+ years. Today's BSA is nothing more than a mere shadow of what it was "back in the day".

One cannot count the 9 days of Philmont if they have already taken the five days of summer camp. Nor does any of the 7 days of BWCA count nor the week long RAGBRAI bike hike. If one has to count to the nth degree the days of camping to get the MB, then one is not camping enough to begin with. The original camping MB required 50 nights of camping. I guess they had to dumb down the requirements to get the boys the patch.... kinda sad.

I'm thinking that under Obedience, if someone thinks a rule wrong or unfair, it is a Primary Obligation to question it, not accept it's worth as secondary to the issue.... At least, that's what I have been teaching my boys for over 30 years now. Then again, I train challenging leaders, not submissive followers. “We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep into our own history and our doctrine and remember that we are not descended from fearful men, not men who feared to write, to speak, to associate, and to defend causes which were for the moment unpopular. “This is no time for men who oppose Senator [Joe] McCarthy’s methods to keep silent. We can deny our heritage and our history, but we cannot escape responsibility for the result.†— Edward R. Murrow, 1954 Yes, this might be a small issue at the onset, but at least with one's finger in the dike, it buys some time to think about it.

I think @@qwazse is right. Asking scouters what is the most difficult is an exercise in futility. One must be asking every boy. They are all difficult to a boy somewhere at some time in his life. A "Zero-Hero" patch to a Floridian who is measuring in Celsius is not the same as the NoDak who is measuring in Fehrenheit. Some of the less adventurous bookworms thrive on the Citizenship MB's and the Last Boy Picked for the Team candidate might not like the more athletic options. So how does that distinguish the leadership development of either of them? One might be the star football player who marries the homecoming queen and goes on to a career in the financial field and does well at retirement savings. The other might become a doctor, never marry but spends his whole life jumping back and forth between Doctors Without Borders and serving at the urban free clinic in the neighborhood where he lives. Maybe we ought to be asking which MB is the most valuable to a boy's future rather than which one is the most difficult.

Because we have a BOY Scout program and a GIRL scout program. If the girls don' tlike their program, fix it, don't go messing with the programs of others. Next time one confronts a male in the female restroom or vice versa, you'll understand. An intolerant minority is progressively promoting their agenda against a former tolerant majority. As that majority becomes more intolerant society will further polarize until it collapses. Why shouldn't we just let them in? It will appease nothing and further antagonize the agreements we have with other organizations to stay out of their concerns. As with any other political agenda decision, it just depends on which group you're going to tick off on any given day. To disregard the BSA/GSUSA agreement is the first step in removing a couple of Scout Laws from the books. By the time it's finished, about the only Law that is left will be a Scout is Clean, well, maybe not his hands, but the rest maybe. While these comments may not reflect my beliefs, they still remain my observations.

I always thought that teaching the S-FC skills was like basic training that once they learned knots, cooking, planning, first aid, camp tools, etc. it would be something they would retain in later life. What does physical exercise for a month, once a year, teach the boys? What does a couple of hours of service projects, every now and then do? My 36 year old daughter and her daughter invited me to ring Salvation Army bells for a number of occasions this holiday season. It's kinda strange. She rang bells with me when she was a toddler and now her toddler is joining in. It's kinda strange in that neither she nor my granddaughter ever heard of service project hours for advancement...... Just sayin' Her grandfather (my dad) rang bells, too and over the course of his time with Salvation Army raised $108,000 for them a bucket at a time. He was never a scout either. Instilling the concept of helping other people at all times can't be done with service project hours mandated by advancement requirements. Next thing the BSA will require will be counting the number of times one opens and holds the door for someone else..... So much for Do a Good Turn Daily..... I have counted my 2 hour shift at the Red Kettle a Daily Good Turn many times a season. This past week one scout and I were ringing bells in front of the local grocery store. A gentleman came out of the store, dropped in a wad of bills and shook the hand of my scout and thanked him for being a good scout and helping out others less fortunate. I thanked him and wished him a Merry Christmas. After a rather long pause. The boy looked at me and said, "I never expected that." I smiled and said, "What did you expect?" Couldn't get the grin off his face for the rest of the shift. Somethings in life don't need a check box to be valuable.