Stosh

When I was a lad in Boy Scouts, the Explorers were the dark green clad older scouts that were part of Explorer Posts. Look at the old Rockwell pictures... In the 70's the powers to be opened them up to co-ed and the program changed from just camping/scouting to careers and hobbies to draw in the gals. The program continued with the title Explorers. In the late 90's the career portion of the program was culled out into Learning for Life program and Exploring was changed to Venturing using the hobby posts (anything non-career) and General Interest posts and chanced it all into Venturing Crews with the hobby posts changing to specific hobbies, i.e. SCUBA, Chess, Geocaching, etc.Crews and the General Interest Posts changed to High Adventure Crews. It makes more sense if you're an Old Fart and lived through the history.

Our council camp was built on an old tree farm. The major improvement 10 years ago pulped the farm. The next major improvement was selling off the oak trees before the blight got them and if we need a new anything, we'll be camping in a stump field. It'll look nice though.

The General Interest Posts of the 50's and 60's were pretty much the elite of scouting for older boys. Once Exploring came into existance in the early 70's it opened up the door to the hobby, career, scouting options. Now another shift basically splinters off the career aspect and leaves Venturing just as the hobby/general interest "post" now called "High Adventure". Yeah, right! Like today's youth haven't seen though that marketing ploy? What was once a rather solid program of medical posts, law posts, law enforcement posts, fire fighter posts, first aid and rescue posts, has ended up being either camp staff posts or a year-long-boring-meetings-getting-ready-for-a-once-a-year-expensive-blow-out-event-that-tries-to-lure-waning-older-scouts-into-staying-involved-with-girls-and-mega-fun-events-that-don't-happen Crews. I was there when Exploring first stepped out and it was a really good program. I started 42 different posts over the course of 2 years. I carried the council for those two years with numbers in excess of nationally set quotas to carry scouting and cubbing as well. 15 years later more than 3/4th of those posts were still fully operational and doing well. Our council today has 5 Venturing Crews. It's a joke. But when the new STEM truck shows up at the mall for a day, everything will change for the better.......

What I see happening is the local option, for liability reasons, is disappearing and instead of standing together, BSA has abandoned them to the winds of change. For this reason, I don't blame them for simply walking away from BSA and looking at other less risky options out there. Like I posted elsewhere, dump the charter, the uniform and the identification with BSA, and how run it as a youth ministry. Unfortunately the "easy way out" does not bode well for the BSA. Of course any local option units moving to another CO will need to leave their equipment and finances behind.

Gotta love the discussion on latrines..... We've come a long way baby. in the 1960's the ONLY permanent latrines we as scouts had were at summer camp. They were the standard wood outhouses. Every Saturday in the summer they got a new load of lye. ALL other outings required an addition item on every duty roster, dig and maintain, and clean up the latrine. And then people wonder why I use the term Paper Eagle for all those boys that need flush toilets, showers, mess hall and a pool at summer camp. We were happy with wooden latrines. Flush toilets, showers, mess halls, and pools are all modern conveniences added over the years and still we call it "camping". I think the new term that would be better suited for it is "glamping". Oh, by the way, back then it wasn't just BSA either. I was a junion in high school on a trip to Canada at a provincial park when I was privvy (pun intended) to my first campground flush toilets. Even the state parks didn't have running water. To this day we still have State DNR campgrounds with hand pumps and latrines, albeit cement and no longer wood. I'm anticipating BSA scout shops having the string of Eagle lights to hang on your RV's awning any day now.

The Venturing Crew I started is still around. It was first chartered in 1999 when the program opened up. Most people do not realize it is a Venturing Crew nor associated with BSA. Although it is occasionally takes on female members for a while, it is generally all male.

Of course it is just as easy if the congregation wishes to retain it's "youth ministry" all it need do is drop the Charter, dump the uniforms and go camping just like they have always done. Then down the road, hook up with TrailLifeUSA and there's no hiccup in the process. All risk goes away. BSA's new policy is no hardship for those wishing to leave other than traditional sentimentality which can easily be trumped by legal litigation.

As a CO, a congregation is taking on a BSA unit as part of it's minisry. If the dynamics of that unit make it impossible to continue to identify with that minmistry, it will be "cut loose". If the congregation wishes to "retain" it's BSA unit they can easily do it by dropping it's CO agreement and declaring it as an outside organization that merely rents space on congregational property just like any other outside organization. With that being done, all risk associated with that unit remains with the unit and whatever new CO it can find, not the congregational landlord.

The troop I now have (small, just started) was started in an area where there was 4 BSA units 5 miles to the north, 2 BSA units 4 miles to the south, 1 unit 4 miles to the west and 1 unit 25 miles to the east. There used to be a Catholic unit that served this area, it folded when the church closed its parochial school. After 6 years I started the new unit 2 blocks from the old Catholic church in a church of a different denomination. Why didn't it just move 2 blocks over to the new CO 6 years earlier? It might be a good question to research if there are going to be a lot of units moving around to different CO's. It could be just easier to walk away than to hassle the switch.

Once BSA stuck it's foot in the politio-religious door, what did they expect would happen?

"BSA is not political?" Okay, I got my chuckle for the day. I'm good.

Hypocisy is not limited to just Christianity, Islam and Judeahism have their fair share as well. But measuring one's religion by one's response? Threaten a Jew in the Midwest America, it'll never makes the local news. Threaten a Jew in Jerusalem, it won't make the news either, but the outcome would be worlds apart. It applies to all religions. There are those that live according to their religious tenets and those that don't. Like I said hipocrisy is not limited to just the Christians. A lot of it has to do with the level of tolerance. Jews are tolerant because their numbers are small and tend to be taken advantage of. Hence only Jewish nation in the world is the small country of Israel. Christians tend (but not always) to be more tolerant than others at least on certain days of the week...maybe. Some religions simply are not tolerant of others at all. For all the Latin buffs out there, I measure religion on their construtive or destructive nature. Do they build or do they destroy? One can put labels on them all they want, but the true nature of religion is not it's title, but it's constructive or destructive nature of it's members. Mother Theresa didn't get her world reknown notariety because of her destructive nature, Son of Sam got a lot of press too, I do believe both claimed the Christianity label. One of them had to be lying. Kinda have to take it one person at a time. All Jews are good? No All Jews are bad? NO. How about other religions? Same can be said for any of them. Each person is to be judged by their constructive or destructive nature and forget about the titles they really don't tell the truth.

If one were to stop and think clearly about many situations that occur on a daily basis, one would see far more of these awards issued than have occurred. The two children I saw choking in restaurants would not be alive today if it wasn't for someone knowing the Heimlich. Proficiency in that requirement isn't just an advancement checkbox. Knowing CPR in and of itself is heroic. I saw a man go down right in front of the Parliment building in Ottawa. I was the only one in the crowd who knew CPR. A police officer produced an AED, but didn't know how to work it. I did, but didn't have anyone to hook it up while I did CPR. After 15 minutes, the EMT's took over. I thought a 15 minute response time was really bad for the center of their nation's capitol. I thought that because of government social healthcare, no one out of the hundreds standing by could help, and that being a foreigner I was the only one that knew CPR? A lot of questions, but I didn't stick around to listen to any explanations or excuses. I find that a well trained Scout is a step above the general masses in society and tend to take that step even further later on in life. To me that's why that South African Boy Scout TV ad was so impressive. The writers of that ad was definitely a former scout themselves.

@@desertrat77 BSA and scout parents don't see the Eagle being watered down any, but there aren't many on the forum that argue with me about the increasing numbers of Parlor/Paper Eagles out there today. The prestige is gone, BSA just hasn't accepted it as of yet. Heck, simply being a Boy Scout isn't the prestige it once was 50 years ago.

There's a ton of shades of grey on this whole issue. Risking one's life? Every time a police officer pulls over a speeder on the freeway, he is risking his life. Every time a fireman responds to a house fire, he's risking his life. Every time an EMT responds to a freeway accident or house fire with injuries, they are exposed to the same dangers. And in our letigitous society, every time an innocent bystander, Good Samaritan or good neighbor steps forward, they run the same risk as anyone else. But unlike the paid professional, if they are sued, the money comes from their own pockets that was supposed to feed, clothe and shelter their family and allow them solace in their old age. If K of C no longer wishes to run their organization at that level of risk, then moving into parishes is a really good idea.

@@JustThinking Christians have been persecuted for the past 2,000 years. Jews for even longer. The Chistians, however, came to the New World to get away from it in Europe. But as those in power refuse to honor the law of the land and the oath they took to protect that law, the persecutions start all over again. (Ecclesiastes 1:9)

@@Krampus @@Eagle94-A1 As Krampus' brother-in-law states, even as a nationally certified EMT-A volunteer, I was under no legal obligation to render any assistance whatsoever. That was covered in the training explicitly. Regardless of the training, unless one is being paid, one falls under the Good Samaritan Laws just like every other person in the world. One is not legally obligated to endanger oneself either which EMT's do every time they run a red light, every time they driver faster than the speed limit, everytime they get a call out into a blizzard where the roads are shut down and no travel is allowed, every time they get a mental health call when weapons are involved, every time they encounter a hazardous materials diamond at a truck/railroad accident, and the list goes on and on. So the bottom line -> If you are the only one on the rescue crew that will act and the others hesitate and stay back, is your action meritorious or stupid? Ever wonder why heros are reluctant to come forward? I'm not, I did some pretty stupid things back when I was young and foolish running with the Ambulance crew..... Does that make me proud of what I did, or was it just stupid. Either way, if someone lived to see another day, it was worth the risk.

Not all lifeguards, EMT's, etc. are professional. Most small towns have volunteer EMT's, First Responders, Fire Departments, etc. I was nationally certified for 15 years and never got paid a penny. All training, continuing education, and jump kit equipment was at my expense. There is a lot of grey area in this whole issue and one of the reasons why one needs the approval of the person is because of the potential embarrassment that might result from a denied application.

We have boys that hate camping as much as some girls. Neither program is a good fit for all youth.

Having run with the EMT's for many years, I'm surprised the number of times I have had to use my nolonger certified skills on people. CPR on someone 3 times since dropping certification, 2 Heimlich rescues of small children in restaurants, and first on the scene for 5 car accidents with severe bleeding. Just hauled a young monther into the hospital last night after a fall with major knee damage. What would be consider meritorious to one might be nothing more than just a Good Turn to someone else. Judging these situation is purely subjective. @@blw2 It's up to you what you decide whether it was meritorious or not. Just don't be upset if not everyone else thinks so. He's your son, you have a right to be proud of his actions.

@@Krampus I never did get the quote notification. Go in and edit your profile you need to do a check box on that feature. Must have gotten turned off during the Great Crash of 2015. I did find the ignore button. That works nicely.

Every organization I have worked with that needed conflict management training didn't offer it. There might be a correlation going on here.

I get my notifications now if I get mentioned. @@Krampus testing

Our council camp just built a new training center (flush toilets and showers), a new dining hall, pool, shooting sports range and fixed up the old dining hall better than it ever was over the past 20 years. But funds are short here too. Yeah right!

I see your point, we wouldn't want people thinking we are racists against the white trailer trash tossing garbage out of their cars along the roadways.