Stosh

Hmmm, How does this relate to the "under the covers" dynamic in Scouting now that some of it's co-ed?

As I have said, let the boys pick their own patrols. Sometimes the boys decided to stay together, sometimes patrols who were < 6 members would invite new boys into their group, etc. but whatever happened, it was because it was how the boys made their choice of patrol membership and leadership. I can't really speak as to how all the dynamics in my troops work because, I get told after all is said and done what the structure is. Then I only hear about the changes. Sometimes I find out why the change came about, but not always.

There are those out there that are "comfortable" in having a tradition to rely on. There are those out there that struggle and grope around because of a lack of training, goals, vision, tradition or whatever there may be out there to grab on to. There are those that always seek to improve and develop beyond the "been there, done that" comfort zone. Some say it will work because it has in the past. Others will say it won't work because it's old fashioned. And the list goes on and on. Every time one new boy comes into a troop or an older boy quits or ages out, the "personality" of the troop changes. It happens with the adult corps, it happens on the patrol level, it happens on the youth leadership level, and even to a lesser extent on the troop level, depending on the size of the troop. So, we all know that no two troops are the same and what works for one will not work for another. So the traditional, one-size-fits-all, will make room for those that will fit the mold for that troop. But other troops who either have no traditions (new troops or reorganizing troops) will be a bit more flexible for a while until they lock into the way we've always done it. But a boy led, patrol method troop will survive more comfortably because the size that fits is one that is constantly custom made for the ever changing nature of the patrol's small group dynamics. The 8 boys decide on a new PL, the dynamics change. A beloved PL ages out, the dynamics change. They have lost 4 boys to aging out, take on 4 new ones, the dynamics change. To take a snapshop of the most excellent troop ever created today will mean that by the end of next week, things will be different. Nothing stands still. How the unit is structured, right down to the PL/APL leadership team, will determine it's success in the long run. Those that can't change will basically limp along for a while, then spiral down to mediocracy eventually to merger or closure. And what is ironic, someone else will come along and within a few years a new troop will pop up in it's place. How can that be possible? Had the old troop been flexible, maybe they would still be around. People fear change, but with every new Webelos group crossing over, change is mandatory. Every year that passes, change is mandatory. To define a destination when the journey is never-ending means they will stop but life will go on. So, who's to make the decision as to what is necessary for today? I would venture the idea that the boys know what's best for them, not some historical adult dictated or even out-of-date PLC mandate from yesterday. You 8 boys, figure out what and who you want to be and let me know. Will their vision as Webelos be the same as when they are 16 and making plans for Philmont and/or Sea Base? I think not. Adults are not there to mentor, coach, direct, lead, cajole, mandate or give the vision to the boys. We are there to help them with THEIR vision. After all, it's supposed to be their adventure, not ours as adults.

The only MB I taught to others who were not scouts was Orienteering to a group of older women who were into kayaking. They had heard about the MB, went to the Scout Office, picked up enough MB booklets for everyone and then asked me to teach it. Needless to say my wife was one of the gals and let the cat out of the bag that I could teach it. The Mrs. and I had our bonding moment.

I have a former Venturing Crew member who I had stand toe to toe with me one day and insist he would never be a leader, never wanted to be a leader and that I should get off his case about leadership. Eventually he lead a company of reenactors on the battlefield of a national event at Gettysburg, was squad leader during his ROTC years, and is now a Deputy Sheriff for the county. Every now and then he pulls me over "to chat". The conversation is always the same, "When are you going to become the sheriff?" It still scares the cajeebies out me when he hits that siren behind me.

I think you answer your own question. "It seems that many troops will reassign patrols based on some calendar tick or another..." Who made up that rule? Adults? PLC? ??? Just another example of adult run troops that give lip service to the boy-led, patrol-method option. In my entire tenure as SM in two different troops, there has never been an election except for OA membership. The boys come up with their leadership. How they do that is up to them. The PL can be a volunteer, elected, agreed on by consensus or draws the short straw. I don't care how they do it. It just gets done and they know who it is they want to follow and they get a say so in it. I have never had an SPL popularity contest either. The SPL is either something the PL's take turns at because the event mandates it or if the troop is small like I have now, it defaults to the only PL to do double duty. Stay out of it. Let the boys figure out who's in what patrol and whose going to lead it. I've never interfered and the boys always seem to be very happy with their selections. If they aren't they can correct it at any time, and yet on occasion that has happened.

Yep, that about sums it up. The expectations I have for myself is to create as many opportunities for the boys to develop their leadreship style, mature in stature and become a contributing citizen in society. I clear the field for them of as many self-indulgent, well-meaning and even overbearing adults whose expectation is to constantly seek to take those opportunities away from them. The boys deserve a clear learning field void of adult management concepts, interfering "leadership" and other adult imposed forces that come to play in a lot of troops. Train 'em, trust 'em, and let them lead by keeping the adults out of the way so they can." Yes, it's my expectation that the boys make up their own rules, plan their own activities, sink and/or swim on their own time tables. It's my responsibility to make sure they have the resources and opportunities to do so. I'm looking at summer camp this summer. 5-6 boys and the PL is last year's Webelos cross-over who has just gotten his TF rank. There is one other older boy, (Aspergers) who simply rides along and enjoys himself, and 4-5 (or more... up to 15 more!) THIS YEAR's Webelos cross-overs. Yeah, there are those that think mixed age patrols are the only way to go. I don't get that opportunity, and there are a lot of others out there that are starting or rebuilding that are in the same boat, cut them some slack. Not everyone on this forum is taking over an already established troop. They have a tougher row to hoe than those that inherit a huge troop of experienced scouts. Maybe they weren't as lucky as some, but with the bigger challenge comes the bigger reward. Creating something out of nothing ranks higher in my ledger book than simply keeping the ball rolling. And by the way, if we end up with 20 new Webelos boys crossing over this spring, I have faith that my one TF scout is going to be able to do it. He has already proven to me he's up to the challenge, he's from a broken home and attends school 45 miles away yet is there pretty much every meeting and every outing. It was he and I that stood out in the cold ringing bells for the Salvation Army for two hours chatting about future expectations.... Best Christmas present ever.

You missed one BLW2 - "Scout" is a military term for a "patrol" of soldiers who go out beyond the limits of the established main "troop" to "live off the land and their wits" separate from the main force. Their skills are map/compass, knots, shelter, camping, cooking, etc. those things that would be necessary for a small band of soldiers to be able to do for themselves away from the main force. Nope, scouting ain't the military..... much.

Over the years I have seen a lot of boys come and go in the program for a variety of different reasons. Some boys cross over and stay because their friends do. Others don't like the camping and friendship doesn't make any difference. Some boys can't get over the homesickness issue. Some boys find other activities more attractive and satisfying. Some troops are high adventure powerhouses and the boys go because of the trips. Some troops are restricted by physical limitations of their CO and can't handle a lot of boys. Some troops are adult led and the boys don't like it or do like it. Some troops are boy led and the boys don't like it or do like it. Some parents push their boys, get over involved and their sons feel obligated to hang around. Some parents don't push at all, aren't involved indicate to the boys they don't care, so why should they. Some parents tell their children scouting is stupid and a waste of time. Over the years I've seen and heard it all..... As SM it's my job to find the boys that want to be in scouting, want the leadership development, want the fun, and help them get it. Those are the ones that hang around and become SM's/ASM's in their adult years.... even if they never have sons of their own.

I'm a MBC in a number of MB's and my son hasn't been in scouting for over 20 years. Even when he was, he never signed up for a MB I was teaching.

Not all boys enjoy camping. A lot of girls do. Boy Scouts aren't for everyone, that also means not all boys. Girl Scouts aren't for everyone, that also means not all girls. It all depends on what the market bears for these organizations. I happen to love the outdoors. My first wife tolerated it, my second wife used to be a team supervisor for the National Forestry Service in Alaska, her children all put themselves through college doing commercial salmon fishing while in Alaska. At times it's kinda hard keeping up with her....... Her last two Christmas gifts from her children was a new kayak last year and a new tent this year. My wife was a Daisy for one year.

Remember the old "Bug Lights" made out of a tin can and candle? One can still pick up the old "church keys" at the antique stores...... Just sayin'.

This is great as it should be between parent and child. But if the child is to learn maturity through leadership developement, it isn't in the parent's best interest to try and do it themselves. It kinda runs contrary to the dynamics of current parenting norms. Years past seem to find parents often obsessing about getting their children grow'd up and outa da house ASAP. That doesn't seem to be a high priority nowadays.

In the area where we are, all flag color guards are ushered to the front of the parade. All mlitary units (reserves, ROTC, etc.) first, then patriotic organizations second (Scouts, Auxillaries, military fraternities, etc.) , then the parade itself. People stand, do their thing at the beginning of the parade then sit and enjoy the rest. School bands have pretty much dropped their color guard and go with a 2 person banner instead.

Lay flat? Heck, my boys have some books that are so taped up they won't close anymore. One must also teach in this highly digitalized society of today the fine art of taking care of bound books, too. The boys generally open up their book only at the advancement pages, break the binding at that point and then the pages start to fall out at that point. If taught the way we were in 1st and 2nd grade on how to break in the binding of a new text book, the binding is eased in carefully and won't "snap" at just one or two highly used points. By teaching the boys this trick they might get maybe a few more days of usage before they wreck them by leaving them out in the rain.....

In my old troop, book, necker, slide AND sash were given at cross-over. In my current troop, book, slide are given at cross-over, necker is troop owned by given to use, and sash is given at attaining scout rank. My boys are encouraged to put their rank badges on the back of their sashes in that it speeds up the process of getting the current rank on the shirt.

"I want to be a Boy Scout in your troop when I get old enough!" - said to me by a 2nd grade younger sister of a Webelos boy crossing over.

Really? My problem is I do remember the names and faces..... Had a busy summer last year. My step-daughter's weddingin Seattle, another step-daughter's wedding in San Francisco, and an Eagle scout's wedding in Tulsa. Kinda hard to distinguish between step children and scouts.... It's a good thing to be retired so I don't miss any of them.

Being a new troop with no older boys, our COH's tend to be more of a free-for-all with the boys havng fun. All the boys (there aren't that many) come to the front and instead of getting a patch and handshake get to tell everyone how much fun/struggle they had in getting the award. Parents like it because they get to hear from their boys as well as others on how things are progressing. It's one of the luxuries of beng a small troop. Each boy pretty much motivates their buddies especially when it comes to MB's and a boy has a great time with it.

Is your SPL trying to take care of his boys? Is he focused on helping his PL's be the best PL's they can be? If one can answer those questions with yes, then there's no need to be critical. On the other hand if one's expectations towards a certain performance goal is what is being considered here, it could be viewed as adult run (management) rather than youth led (leadership). Failure can always be measured by adults as youth not meeting their standards of achievement rather than a development of a boy's leadership style. A good start would be is the process motivated by an adult's vision for the troop or the boy's? Anything that starts with the adults, usually ends up pretty much adult run and heavily influenced by adult led. If one listens carefully to the comments, it is usally pretty evident.

It's kinda sad to think that the only time this parent can bond with his son is while doing scout requrements that he gets to sign off on.

The committee does what the committee decides for each Eagle, I as SM do my own gifting.

Management has it's limits as to how many people can be managed at one time. Leadership has no such limitations.

Too bad this wasn't a more "historic" picture promoted by BSA.