Stosh

Of course it's work. The boy doesn't work, sell or promote the fundraiser, he doesn't get any money in his personal account to spend on his own self. Doesn't even have to claim it on his taxes. All non-profit, ya know.

Used to be Greek and Latin was taught in our high schools. Now remedial English is being taught in college. And BSA wants to move to be more in step with today's youth? Might want to think that one through again. Seriously, I did take Latin in high school. Best class ever in understanding English. Those fortunate enough to have taken it know what I mean. Took Greek in seminary, so I got all my bases covered.

OMG! @@Eagle94-A1 who in the world would want to drag a 86 pound tent around on a camping trip!?!? Shipping for that circus tent would be more than the cost of the tent!

I don't think the process that was suggested by our brain-storming UC's last night would address what @@Eagledad mentions because it seems to focus on AFTER the cross over and into the initial contact with the Boy Scout unit. I'm thinking the problem of Cub Scout "Graduation" wouldn't show up. Here one has gung ho boys working hard on their AOL after 5 years of Cubbing and have no intention of going on into Boy Scouts regardless of what kind of program they offer. Looking at 2nd year Webelos and not finding corresponding new names in Boy Scout units would be a bit more difficult to dig out, but not impossible. One could assume (yes, the dreaded word) that by identifying units that had a large number of boys that did not cross over could be approached about better prepping the boys for the new adventure of Boy Scouts. That could be a valuable push by the UC Corps, kind of a FOS approach to the process. The UC's going out in the fall and meeting with all the 2nd year Webelos units and maybe along with scouts from potential units they could join do some actual hand-son recruiting of the boys rather than just assuming (yep, there it is again) that the boys will all automatically cross over into Boy Scouts.

Why can't he get REI in the UK? It might cost a bit for shipping, but it might be worth it in the long run.

"I'm sorry, but a bunch of old farts on the Internet do not qualify as caring adults!" We don't know the boy, the new SM doesn't really know the boy, but there are those in the unit who do. Qwazse is correct, get someone who knows the boy and the boy trusts and have them reach out to him. If he returns, the new SM needs to be the first to welcome him back. We may not qualify as caring adults, but we care enough to help each other with issues in the different groups of boys we work with. Nobody wants anyone to fail, especially when they are just starting out and getting their feet wet. As I have mentioned in other posts here, I have had boys walk out on me, only to return and go on to get their Eagle. All is not lost. Don't quit!

@@Krampus, Most definitly! The thought behind the approach was for many years we have been listening only to the unit side of the issues when the UC's did their contacts. By targeting the other side of the coin, we can focus on the specific issue of scout retention and why it isn't happening. It would also give a more general idea of the pulse of the whole district. If there seems to be a consensus among multiple units that there's a problem with the camporees, for example, that would be an issue that would be pushed up the ladder for other district committees to address as well. If there seems to be a lot of loss of cross over boys, we ASSUME it's because the boys weren't interested in Boy Scouts, or maybe it's the fact that the boys aren't assimilating well, or... or.... or.... or one could just ask the boys directly. Are the older boys dropping out? Is it REALLY the fumes? or is it they are bored or they're tired of having to work with the younger boys all the time and want to do some things for themselves, would they be good candidates to re-register into a Venturing Crew? None of these issues are even identified when talking to the units. The units tend to give glowing reports of the program the boys are in, but nothing is ever discussed about the boys who voted with their feet. Once we have that data, then we can add that to the discussion of how well the unit is doing in terms of recruiting, program AND RETENTION. It was kinda surprising that the first issue the UC Corps brought up was this issue of retention. Maybe it was because we are just starting the re-chartering process in the district. One of the guys said that it would be a good way to get a good reading on the unit's program. Obviously they will continue to keep doing what they do well, but maybe they are unaware of what they do not do well. This re-charter follow up hopefully will address that. By the way, it was also emphasized that every unit regardless of anything else will get an annual or even semi-annual meeting with a UC to see how things are going.

My old 3 man Kelty has seen some rough service and does well. My brand new 4 man Kelty is luxury. Qwazes' correct in that old fashioned canvas or nylon tarps do just fine. I'm 65 years old and still sleep a lot under real canvas

Pitched the proposal to the DC and the rest of the UC's this evening. They all thought it was something they could get excited about. Along with plugging names on paper into the system to meet National's requirements, the UC would function more as a group rather than individuals. Their first concern would be to establish contact with the DE to make sure all the recharter packet went out. Started at the RT tonight and the DE will let the UC Corps know who still needs them to be delivered. Then we plan on making contact with the training committee to notify us if there are any units that have missed out on the rechartering training and we will work with them to make sure every one is trained. Then immediately after rechartering, the UC Corps will review all the recharters and do exit telephone interviews with each boy that was dropped from re-registration and find out why. We will compile the results from these interviews on each unit and touch base with the unit for an annual meeting of troop leadership and share the results of those findings. This will give a state of the unit accounting and an opportunity for the unit to respond to what was discovered in these interview. After that we will work with the various organizers to find out why units are or are not involved in the district activities. This will give an accounting of why units do not attend camporees, RT's, council summer camp, etc. to find out why and what areas in the district need addressing. This research will allow the UC Corps an opportunity to apply resources directly to areas that have been identified as problematic rather than wasting them on nationally mandated paperwork projects that no one ever follows up anyway. The die has already been cast as to what's going to happen this round of rechartering, but it is projected that if we start now, maybe we can head off a lot of these persistent issues by proactively addressing them rather than trying to salvage something after it's too late. The consensus seemed to think that the combined resources of just a few could be better applied as a group on specific problems rather than spread thin over all the units including units that are operating very well without needing UC support at the moment. The DC did also mention the potential of identifying the specific skills of the UC Corp members and making those available to the units as well. She did specifically mention that if a unit really wishes to move towards a boy-led program, UC's that are motivated in that area would be available to work with the unit directly. If nothing else, it was the most animated meeting of the UC's I've attended in the past 3 years.

It's truly funny with churches, especially when it comes to closing or merging with a same denomination/synod church. These organizations are super deep with family histories and family power struggles and outsiders, even those across the street are not part of their world. The two families can be totally into being best of buddies on a social level....except for the church. To even bring up the subject of merger or closure is heresy. You'd do better spitting in their face, they'll forgive you, but don't mention merger or closure, they'll burn you at the stake in a heartbeat. While the impact of Bass Pro and Cabelas merging is not that big of an impact on Scouting as some might be led to believe. The merging and closing of scout units close to each other over the years has made for some interesting discussions which to a lesser extent seem to have the same dynamics of churches.

You are on the right track blw2, but I hear a lot of chatter on this forum indicating a bad apple will ruin the whole bushel. If I really believed that I would no longer bother with trying to help those that need it the most. Some of my best scouts started out with bad apple attitudes. But once channeled, the boys were a lot happier with what they became of themselves and would be the first to admit it. Even then some of my quiet boys who are "bullied" and taken advantage of by the other scouts often times turn into very effective leaders because they know what being on the bottom is all about and scouting is their chance to protect those around them that are getting the same treatment. Ever wonder why the patrol of "losers" doesn't stay that for long? As SM I have a responsibility to evaluate (yes judge) each boy to determine what it is he needs to be successful in scouting. That's kinda why I like the NSP because I get an early glimpse of how they relate directly with their peers without the dynamics of older boy's management routines. Which boys stand out, which stand back, etc. Who have natural leadership, who organizes the best, who serves others, who's looking out for themselves. All these indicators allows me to mentally formulate what opportunities are going to be needed for them to be better than what they are and hope to become. Like 18 year olds going off to college and getting their first taste of independence? Yeah, we all know how that works out for a lot of young people. But what if we could push that "time table" 7 years earlier in their lives and start the process of growth at a younger age. The sudden impact of turning 18 won't hit them as hard because they have "been there, done that" already and worked the kinks out in a safe environment. To me that's the real opportunity of Scouting. No other youth program expects that as its primary goal. If it so happens that the star of the football team some how steps up and leads his team to victories, are the accolades bestowed on him for him or for his team? Did he do it for them or for himself. In scouting if one is following the principle of "take care of your boys", every great PL will know that he is a great PL because all his boys in his patrol are great too. The boys in the patrol also will come to realize that they will be great scouts because they worked at taking care of their PL, too.

Seven blind men and an elephant. Lovely teaching tool. By the way, poor preparation is an indicator of poor management, not leadership. Having an SPL with a written agenda may assist him in his duties as a coordinator of patrol activities, but a charismatic SPL who supports his PL's doesn't necessarily need to go through the hassle of doing the useless task of paperwork. I think we all know how that feels. Dumping it on the boys isn't always a good idea. Wasting their time is even less of a good idea. Change the name to Journey to Management Excellence, and I'm on-board in a heartbeat. Just don't use it as a substitute for Leadership Excellence. Better yet, combine the two and one would have a Real Journey to Excellence.

Maybe not. It's a wee bit off topic, but the dynamics apply. Back when two Lutheran synods merged there were many churches that were from each prospective synods in the same town, even the same small town. One such situation occurred when on one corner of the block stood one church and the other was on the other end of the block with their parking lots between them. When the synods merged, the two churches celebrated by taking down the chain-link fence between the parking lots. But I do believe both churches are fully operational. Less than 5 miles from my house straddling a major highway out of town are two convenience stores... owned by the same franchise. What makes anyone think that an old Cabelas and a Bass Pro couldn't exist in the same town? One specializing in small items and the other in larger items. Genius has it's limits, stupidity goes on forever.

All chatter concerning this possibility ended mid December. Nothing new since.

This problem hits squarely on my whole emphasis that everyone blows me off on. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MANAGEMENT AND LEADERSHIP! I can see the difference but I seem to be in the minority. MANAGEMENT deals with objective, measurable tasks that are taken to reach a goal. LEADERSHIP deals with people and what subjective judgments are necessary for people to want to associate and follow a person of quality. The whole discussion of JTE is the age old struggle between these two unique processes that are tried to blend together. It's oil and water, people. They are two different animals and they can work together well, but for two different reasons. A person can be a good leader but a poor manager. But a poor manager will never really be a good leader. A good manager can be a poor leader if the only thing that counts is the bottom line. A great manager will always be seen as a good leader first. So it seems the two can work independently and cooperatively if they so wish. JTE by definition is a leadership idea, but the means by which BSA has chosen to pursue it is through managment objectives. It will work, but one will need to go beyond the BSA program and add real leadership to the mission. Take the thorn-in-the-side issue that I always bring up. There are Paper Eagles and then there are Real Eagles. Paper Eagles are the current BSA program. You check off enough boxes in the right order, you get the Eagle pin. The statistics now reflect more more boy who has reached the highest rank in scouting. Everything including all the i's and t's are accounted for. Is he a leader or did he just follow the directions spelled out to accomplish the goal? Then we have the Real Eagles. Yes, they have gone through all the steps in exactly the same order as the Paper Eagles, but for some reason which is "hard to explain" there's something special about them. We don't always know how to describe it, it's just there. One seems to be "attracted to them". They have a certain charisma about them. You genuinely like them and want to be around them, i.e. you want to follow them and be around them." This is Leadership, it has a sense of people being drawn to them. One can't always even explain it. It is not measurable, it is not taught, there is no check box, it's just there. How does one measure JTE (Excellence) I dunno, I don't believe National knows how, I don't think statistically National even cares to try and measure it. It's just easier to identify management objectives and leave it at that and then spin it to sound like it's "excellence". Management is measured in quantity. Leadership is measured in quality. If one is to have a true Journey to Excellence, it is going to need real leadership to pull it off. Unfortunately real leadership is not built into the program because real leadership is not just good management. How do I know this? Because BSA is interested in only the bottom line......

As the original poster on this topic, I insist it stays here for a number of reasons. 1) All moderators swear an oath that all stinky topics go INTO the I&P crapper and under no circumstances are they to pull them out and put them into respectable areas of the forum. 2) Move something from I&P to a "regular" area. We've never done that before. 3) John-in-KC might lose his moderator privileges. 4) As original poster I insist that it stays here. The purpose of this thread was to promote real thinking on this forum and if a topic arises here of particular importance, then someone is to take that idea and reformulate it for consideration in an appropriate regular area. Leave this thread as a means to discussing UC subjects that can be identified and as a seed area for multiple ideas to be considered elsewhere. This thread is accomplishing what I wanted it to do.

"MY GOAL is do my best help a kid reach Eagle.I will not/do not impersonate that goal to them." My goal is to bring out the best in each of my boys regardless of whether they get advancement credit for it or not. "But my personal goal is provide ample choices for every kid to earn that and reach that,..." My personal goal is to provide opportunities and allow the boy to create whatever choices he wishes to follow. "Their kids still come to me for advice and guidance." I want my boys to go to their Patrol Leaders and older boys in the troop for advice and guidance. "I will say during the meeting I told the boys there were going to have to earn their badges. I also said that we will start wearing Field Uniforms (Class A) to meetings and other places etc... to produce exposure. Told them that if you dont have one dont worry we will be having fundraisers and such to get them." I want my boys to have a safe place to grow and develop, make choices, experience failure and mature in character. It's important that the experience is fun at the same time. "In reality none of this is for us adults, its for the kids. If we can keep that as a main focus then we can accomplish anything." In reality this is not an adult program, if we remember that THEY can accomplish what THEY want. I'm hoping it's just your writing style, but I'm not hearing boy-led in any of these comments. Keep it in mind, they don't keep score in Scouts. It's not universal throughout scouting, but many of those that are trained professional teachers find the boy-led process of scouting difficult to understand and even more difficult to implement. They are passionate about the boys learning, but they all agree that when the student doesn't meet their expectations they fail. In scouting there are no scores and there are no grades, not even pass/fail. Every scout is measured by a different measurement criteria than any other because each boy is unique. That's a concept that us totally foreign to the standardized testing regiment of a standard school system.

There are a number of businesses in our town that do that and we tap into it on a regular basis. Even the council does it on a larger scale than the units.

A boy is not required to have a uniform in BSA. A boy is not required to advance. But he is allowed to hang out and have fun. I have had boys like that, given time they come around. In this case, that opportunity probably just walked out the door. If this is "their" program and not "yours", there seems to be a lot of gauntlets thrown and lines in the sand drawn. Ever ask rather than tell? SM's #1 job is to listen to the boys. The #2 job is to listen again.

Rememberschiff, I think it would be a bit more family/scout appropriate to word it, "So drug distribution and porn at Boy Scout Troop ### Scout Hut...." Just thinkin' It also goes a long way to feel confident in the background checks National is doing. Next thing you know, we'll all be peeing in a cup at every RT...at least in Pennsylvania.

I don't know why it took them 2 years to figure it out all they needed to do is swing by the Abner and Gladys Kravitz residence and gotten all the information they needed in about 15 minutes. There's not much to see in a small town, but what you hear makes up for it.