Stosh

There's nothing good about pushing childhood into the 30's and 40's. One of the things I do is fight that battle for a ton of young people today. It's not just scouts, everywhere we see this. It's a rather interesting phenomena. Adolescence is rather unique to America and what used to be a developmental stage has become a lifestyle for many. It wasn't that long ago that religious and cultural coming of age rituals used to draw a demarcation line that let everyone know that this person is now an adult. We have an arbitrary age of 18 set for legal purposes, but that is pretty much a joke. There are so many exceptions to that rule it means pretty much nothing not even in the legal setting because minors are tried as adults all the time and one can't drink alcohol until 21 and there are some requirements that a person has to be 24-25 to do things. Is it any wonder our young adults have trouble defining themselves? @@Eagle94-A1 you have identified the problem precisely. Your son gets elected SPL at age 11 and it surprises you he did a decent job? I have known for years now that there are a ton of kids out there that if given the chance will do even more than a decent job if given the opportunity! As SM it's my job to give them that opportunity! This is their time to try new things, to experiment with life, to put the final touches on what's going to shape their lives in the future. Every time I step in and interfere in that process as an adult, I steal that opportunity from them. I'm no longer surprised by what "kids" can do. It's not that I'm better than anyone else, it's just that I have been around longer than a lot and have allowed young people the freedom to try. I have seen some pretty amazing things. Only in America do adults get treated like children. In Scouting we have an opportunity to change that.

Having taken the Homeland training, I was surprised that the media seems to be picking up only on the mass shootings that have certain characteristics. Those that involve children, i.e. schools, those that are super out of the ordinary, i.e. theater. those that involve foreigners, i.e. San Bernardino. What people don't realize is that over half of the shooter incidents occur at a person's place of work, one of the places that prohibit weapons. The old expression "going postal" seems to be the real threat and those statistics aren't calculated in because only 2-3 co-workers might be killed. It's the random, don't make sense shootings that get the press. Otherwise they are just "normal" homicides", i.e. disgruntled workers, gangs, etc, but unless there is a large amount of collateral damage, media doesn't pick up on it. I might have a 1 in 6,630 chance of being injured or killed in a mass shooting, but what about a regular shooting, like in an ally, or parking lot or home invasion, or at a robbery gone wrong at the local gas station. We had an armed robbery on the news tonight, no one was shot, but that's not always the case. I'm sure the story won't make CNN or NBC or even Fox, but it's a bit close to home for me. If it takes even 10 minutes to respond in a large city incident, how long would it take the sheriff's deputy to get to a rural location in the county considering I live 25 miles of curvy hilly roads from the county seat. Decisions about weapons is not an easy one, one not taken lightly. I have an obligation to my family that I need to consider as well.

Today it's ADD Avoid Denial Defend If you're in an office building that most large company insist on Weapon Free Zones, a pair of scissors or even a pen make a good weapon to defend yourself. The crazy guy with the AR-15 will wait for you to find one. Everyone needs to take Dept of Homeland Security active shooter webinar, training, etc. Those kinds of training aren't being taught very much to the general public. Every scout unit should go through one. Have your local police put on the training THEY have all had the training. My CHURCH held such training for it's members. The church is a CO for a Boy and Girl Scout troop, and a 4-H Club. No one under the age of 50 showed up. I'm thinking a lot of people are really complacent about this whole issue.

I don't know if the world is more dangerous. Much of the statistics show it's safer now, homicide rates are dropping, etc. more people are trained and armed, etc. There "appears" to be a greater threat, but I'm thinking a lot of that hype is due to the sensationalism of the media more than anything else. If one wants to know if the world is more dangerous, all they need do is recollect back to the 1950's where all the little children knew what "Duck and Cover" was all about. At least today, there might be a little something we can actually do about it. How many people remember Cambodia? Rwanda? Ever wonder why America has a large Hmong population? Those issues weren't addressed by the media as well as today's media covers ever little minutia of details on the Internet.

How do you know, you're not supposed to be in there when they are. By the way, do any of you guys out there know why women always need to use public restrooms in pairs? They can't all be former Girl Scouts.

I'm with the others on this. We are talking about YOUR SON's scouting career, not the plan laid out for him by anyone else. including parents. I wouldn't want you to turn into a helicopter parent. Find out what he wants (listen) and then support him in HIS goals (encourage) and you have the vested interest in him already covered. Remember the end result of this whole process is maturity into and preparation to be an adult. You need to start today, you only have 7 years to pull it off and that will go fast. I wouldn't worry too much about the Eagle Mill part of any troop there's a varying degree of it in any troop. Every leader would like to see all their boys get eagle. They just go about it differently. As long as your son is safe, looks and acts like a scout and has fun, he will do just fine. The other stuff you are concerned about can be covered in your father/son campouts and hikes you will be taking on scout free weekends.

@@MattR I start from day one. Tenderfoot Requirement #9 - Buddy system, it's more than just a swim partner and someone to hold your hand when you go to the latrine. Even BSA has added the bully component. This should be taught in the Wolf den. The Buddy System is taking care of someone besides yourself! My orientation to the new Webelos always emphasizes Scouting isn't just for you. It's not your Eagle, if one doesn't see themselves as part of a community, then the citizenship, the leadership, and character building is all for naught. We have enough narcissistic Eagles with the routine we've been running. Self focused scouts don't last very long. The other scouts get tired of carrying their dead weight and will address it as time passes. Either they shape up or ship out. It's their call.

Yep, I'm paranoid some elderly gentleman might have a heart attack at the mall so I keep my CPR certification up-to-date, too. Be prepared.

I doubt the PL would send a boy out of the meeting to discuss their exemplary behavior with the SPL or SM. Maybe they would, but I've never run into that.

One of the dynamics of adult association mentioned is this idea of punishment. We've discussed it in other threads here on the forum, but not in the context of adult association. Okay, one of the boys screws up. (Like that never happens. ) My boys are expected to take care of it themselves. It's part of taking care of the boys "leadership lesson". In all the years of scouting (church and community youth groups as well) I have only once had to play the "principle's office" role as an adult. I didn't do very well at it. I basically didn't do anything at all. The only time I had to deal with it was when I was on the Centennial Jamboree staff and two of the boys were caught stealing. They weren't my boys, the youth leadership in general was pretty much useless and the contingent had devolved into pretty much adult-run. I was the only one on-site when the culprits were hauled before me the sole magistrate by their PL. I called over the SPL and sat him down there with me. I just waited. Got a lot of whittling done, lots of silence. Eventually the SPL with the PL's help dealt with the situation. I sure wish he hadn't taken such a long time to get started but once they realized who was going to have to do it, they stepped up and took over, it worked out nicely. It was decided the boys were to make restitution, apologies made to those involved, including their patrol buddies, and they would notify their SM of the situation and the SPL would follow up with the SM once everyone got home. All I had to do was facilitate an opportunity for boys to lead. The only thing I said to the SPL and PL after it was all over was, "Well done, gentlemen." and went back to my tent. Too often we underestimate the potential of our youth because we think the boys are still children that need to be instructed. I trust them to be the adults they told me they wanted to be. It's worked for me, your mileage may vary. Never take away an opportunity for a scout to lead. Two scouts learned a lesson, the consequences would reflect back to their home SM. The SPL did a fantastic job of sorting it all out. I'm sure they found a lesson in there as well.

With every passing day and every lost Constitutional Right disappearing, I am more certain that Joseph McCarthy had it right.

OMG! Thanks for the lesson in proof-reading. My dyslexia has always been a bit of a pain, but the unfortunate part of it all is you have a sense of humor like I do! Well played!

A well maintained facility and a brand new facility are both equally good in my book. What I was trying to point out was one can have the greatest facilities (and excellently maintained facilities) and without quality program and staff it is a wasted expense and effort. Heck the camp where my boys have been going asked for stoves the camp provided because they did in-site cooking. The stoves were wood-burning Shepherd's Stoves from the 1940's-1950's era. Worked just fine, all the parts were there and the boys had a blast. The facilities in general were not as eye-appealing as the new stuff at our council camp, but the staff and program was the real selling point for the boys.

Ian mentioned that the police in all of England shot and killed only 3 criminals. So that must mean that a few of them have guns. Here's an interesting statistic, how many would be alive today had they been armed? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty

We're close. Your understanding of mentor/mentee is not precisely dictionary in nature. I kinda think of it as buddies doing the Double-Dog Dare challenges of pushing each other. A lot of times the boys in the troop end up being quite close friends once they reach adulthood. I just push that adulthood thing earlier in life and we just start out friends. I can honestly say no youth in any of the groups I have led/chaperoned/etc. has ever asked, "When are you going to start treating me like an adult?" I have had other adult leaders tell me I shouldn't be treating them like adults, they're children after all! I had a whole group of adults have me removed as SM because the boys were expected to do too much leadership. The really sad part of it all was they were doing a fantastic job at it.

Exactly! Some of the best education on leadership is NOT done in a NYLT-like training session, it is done by osmosis watching of the adults interacting with each other. How else are they going to start acting like an adult unless they have a good standard to emulate. This of course implies that the boy have mature leaders in the first place. Otherwise that could be a problem.

Don't think for a moment we don't have our knife wielding, machete swinging, baseball bat armed hoodlums here too. I guess in America we prefer to show up to a knife fight with a gun. I sure hope if you're unarmed Bobbies showing up at the mall never encounter a crazy with an illegal gun. Their job is heroic enough without being ill equipped to handle any and all possibilities. We had a local law enforcement officer come to our meeting to talk with the boys about drug abuse, etc. for their advancement and the boys got off on a tangent. They asked the officer if he were attached what he would do. He said he would pull his baton to defend himself. Then the boys asked, what if the guy had a knife, to which the officer said, he'd pull his gun. Then the boys asked, what if the guy had a gun, to which the officer said, "I'd shoot first." I kinda think that might be how Americans are hard wired.

I'm not in the "back country" but I have had black bear right out my back door. We have had scout killed by a black bear a few counties over. Black bears have been shot within the city limits of our town. I have encountered black bears while hunting small game. I have encountered packs of feral dogs. I have been shot at by hunters and encountered armed trespassers on my property. Yes, I feel the least protected when I'm in gun-free zones and while trying to keep scouts safe. By the way, I would not say the place I live is anything but urban/suburban in nature. A year ago I did finally move 6 miles out of town to a rural setting.\ Forgot to add, DNR knows of 3 black bear dens in our county (one within 1/4 mile of a public school and 2 1/2 miles from my house) and have acknowledged cougar in the area as well. Wolves have been spotted on occasion, but they have never bothered anyone to my knowledge.

Ian, We have our criminal element, but the vast majority of the armed people in America are the law abiding people who only want the Constitutionally guarantee of self protection from whatever threatens. It always reminds me of the Jessie James Gang. They thought it would be easy pickings to rob a bank in small town, back woods Minnesota. We're not talking about the wild west here, Minnesota was subsistence farming at that time. Well, the raid didn't go well and the citizens of Northfield, Minnesota shot up the gang so badly that half were captured and the other half limped away licking their wounds. Whatever they got didn't come from the bank and what they did get I'm sure they didn't think it was worth it. I'm thinking that in a large shopping mall with an active shooter, if I have to draw my gun, it is comforting to note there may be a handful of other armed conceal carry "gun-nuts" out there to help and I don't have to worry about the unarmed bobbies coming to my rescue getting there on time. We live in two different worlds.

www.tennessean.com/...gun-free-zone.../78862948/ https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiRi7brg7rKAhVD6yYKHZcXDS8QFggrMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tennessean.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2F2016%2F01%2F15%2Fbill-allows-suits-over-gun-free-zone-incidents%2F78862948%2F&usg=AFQjCNHIR6GyQ5Qo2qpHRSMei2RupvgQuQ Trying to get a link to work about Tennessee bill introduced last Friday that allows people and their families who can legally carry to sue property owners who post gun free zones and the person his injured on the property who might not have been had they been armed. I'm thinking BSA in Tennessee might be forced to reconsider it's policy if this legislation goes through.

I have seen pages come out of both bindings. I do show the boys how to break in the binding when they first get it. Obviously one doesn't need to do that with the spiral bound. Then when the pages come out of the books, they can be taped to the previous page. This works well with the standard binding, but the pages will never lie flat again with the spiral at that point. One has to keep it in mind that these books are PAPERBACK books and will NEVER be as durable as the hardbound copies. If one has an afternoon to kill they can always scan it into their computer and smart phone, print off the advancement page, having someone sign it an then rescanning it back in and digitally switch out the page. I'm sure with that much work involved, we'll hear about scouts able to lose the digital pages too. Strangely enough, I still have my Walking Scout edition from when I was a kid with all the pages as well. Looks like it was never used. Probably wasn't.

Hey, now! careful! Them dam'Yankee snowbirds head south to get warm. By the weekend, Wisconsin is going to be back in the 20's and low 30's. They expect you Texans to come up with something better than that!

I wonder how many parents are under the assumption that BSA is a consumption program rather than a developmental program. We have a product, Eagle. This is what it takes to get it. Kinda like black-belts in karate. Yet karate is adult driven. First chair in band/orchestra? Again, adult driven. Confirmation, sports, all seem to follow the same principle. Thus the question, why would parents assume anything other than just another program that they pay for like dance lessons and youth baseball? My kid is going to be a professional sport star. My kid is going to play at Carnegie Hall. My kid is going to be a black-belt. My kid is going to be a professional dancer. My kid is going to be a doctor. (threw that one in to see if you were really reading along. ) My kid is going to be an Eagle.

Hmmmm, if it's boy-led, why would adults be pushing anything?