Stosh

But if some kid was playing around with it in the middle of the night and it went off, there'd be a lot of sleeping bags needing cleaning in the morning.

Does the WDL husband show up in uniform for all the adult meetings for his den??

I would think the air horn would be an easier pack, easier access than firecrackers. One doesn't need to know which way the wind is blowing either. Just pull the trigger and chase the bear out of camp. And yes, they are obnoxious. I knew you were joking.

Well, I for one wouldn't carry a .22 for bear. But a 9mm fired into the air would make a noise most bears haven't heard and would do well at getting their attention. The name of the game is to make them more afraid of you than you are of them. I was at a fishing camp in Canada, like the smell of fish isn't going to attract a bear or two? They were using fireworks to keep the bears away. it was working for them.

@@k3egl Welcome to the forum and for sure you don't need to personally apologize for others dropping the ball. Just like any other large bureaucracy, there are some areas that are more efficient and meeting the goals and objectives of the organization than others. I guess under that premise there will be some who end up with the short straw. I don't mind those that try, but in my area, not much of an effort is being put forth. Hopefully it is just a low spot and it'll cycle back some day.

Mountain top experience? I'd settle for a fun experience that the boys are interested and are having fun. I'm thinking the DL is doing just that and doesn't need the hassle from the Pack. These are Tigers for heaven's sake. We aren't talking Eagle candidates here. Here's my solution: jerk her registration, her husband will follow as will their son. That should leave the door wide open for anyone to step up and take over doing it right. End of discussion. No one is stepping up? Well, that's the chance one takes. As far as uniforms are concerned? Again, remember these are TIGERS, they should be with their parent partner. You lose a kid, you lose a parent. If that happens, you got more serious problems than uniforms going on here.

Hmmm, let's put it this way. You have 12 boys, some needing advancement cooking requirement needing to be done. You throw the boys into one room, 6-8 boys per patrol, at least one leader for each group. When the come out (probably in two groups) and a leader, the new leader is told, now take care of your boys, some need to do some patrol cooking. Take care of it. Let me know if you and your boys are having a difficult time figuring it out. I'll be over with the other adults drinking coffee. Anything more than that is over-thinking it, on the part of the adults. If the boys can't handle that, it's because 1) the adults have been doing it for them for too long or 2) they were never trained in the first place.... or both.

I re-read it twice before I answered the last time. When peoples' answers differ than mine, I always go back and re-read to see if I can figure out what they might be seeing what I may have missed. Read it through for the 4th time.... my answer still stands.

As @@T2Eagle mentions, the problem is rooted deeper than the symptom describes. T2Eagle identifies all the areas to address and if done correctly, the whole issue of who's cooking supper is a moot point. Don't sweat the small stuff... and remember: most of it is small stuff.

If every adult leader were expected to follow all the rules to a T, then about 99% of them would be out on their collective ears. There's no indication this woman is taking this issue any further than the paperwork rules and I know of a lot of leaders who don't have uniforms at all. Still the program moves along and boys have fun. As far as pencil whipping goes, I don't know of many units that audit what gets marked off in boys' books on the cub scout level. A bit more stringent when the boys get to Boy Scouts because of the Eagle thingy. On the other hand I have I have seen where councils and districts are a bit too heavy handed as well. Unless we know the full story, it's hard to judge one way or the other. After all last time I checked everyone is innocent until proven guilty... maybe it's been changed in other parts of the country than where I'm at.

Yep, Walks in the Woods has the latest and greatest info. I sure hate it when BSA sends millions of boys out into the woods without proper training.

It is interesting to note that when the American Red Cross is queried about their structure one can go to the web site and see all the business org charts for the American Red Cross shown in the standard chart with the Board of Director at the "top" and the employees and volunteers at the "bottom". Looks like the standard operating flow of any managed business in America. However, in the employee orientation training session they show quite a different story to them. There they place a heavy emphasis on the vision and foundation of the work of the American Red Cross and the pyramid of structure is the servant leadership inverted pyramid with the people needing help (customer) at the wide top and the Chairman of the Board at the point at the bottom. One chart is management, one chart is leadership. What do they know that seems to be a stumbling block for leadership in the BSA?

We're anticipating 5" to 9" of the good stuff tomorrow. After snow-blowing the drive, it's cross-country ski time, my snow shoes are too slow. I have 2 pair and use them only when I have to. Mine are the old fashioned wood/sinew ones. Work great, big enough to actually work as snow shoes. I was in the store day before yesterday and all they had were snowshoes that weren't any bigger than my boots. Both the Mrs. and I concluded we'd stick with the real ones we had. I feel sorry for the Southern boys who have to endure summer all year long and never get a chance at the good stuff.

And a good time was had by all...

Welcome to the forum, it's unfortunate your first post has to be to help with a problem, but that's what the forum is for. I don't understand all the paperwork thing either. Our council only requires tour permits when the unit leaves the council. As long as everyone has backup information in case of an emergency, it is a good to go for the activity. As far as the uniform is concerned, it is not required for either youth or adult in the program. Again this sounds like another council rule that doesn't track with national policy. I for one feel that if the parents are happy and the boys are happy with this leader, leave well enough alone. My boys have "skipped" council events for whatever reason and because none of the three district camporees coming up this spring sound interesting to the boys, they won't be attending any of them. They will be doing their own thing instead. As long as this den leader is not endangering the welfare of any of the kids, parents are all going as their buddies, the BSA program is being delivered, etc. just leave well enough alone. If one is really concerned, go along and find out first hand what's going on with the den. If everything is kosher, then discuss among the den parents if any of them could help out with the paperwork. I can understand why someone would not be doing time-wasting paperwork for the council when they don't have to. I have paperwork filled out only when absolutely necessary and that's why I have an assistant.

Whoever wrote that article should have checked with the National Park Service before publication and it would have given them the opportunity to correct all the bad advice they propose.

It's also a good practice that when you are in the area of bears, be sure to smell all the bear scat you can find, if any of it smells like peppers, whatever was being used was not strong enough. Some bears like their dinner plain, others like to spice it up.

Perfumes

You must be renting snowshoes, buying them is rather pricey and if one is going to backpack with any weight involved, the shoes are quite expensive. There are patterns out there to make PVC pipe shoes that my boys have done in the past. That's not so expensive an option.

Couldn't expect anything more than that! Well done.

There's a fundamental difference between boy-led and adult-led. There's a fundamental difference between patrol-method and troop-method. There's a fundamental difference between leadership and management. They are not just phrases one just throws about. Boy-led/adult-led describes the fundamental difference on who's making decisions for the group. Patrol-method/troop-method describes the fundamental difference on how the group is organized. Leadership/management describes the fundamental focus on how the group experiences it's culture of operation. If ons is to develop an environment for a boy-led operation, they won't be doing many lessons in adult-led processes. Yes, they are not mutually exclusive, but one needs to know when to apply which one at what time. If one is to develop an environment for a patrol-method operation, they won't be doing many lessons or focusing on troop-method operations very often. If our goal is to develop leadership and the lessons offered are managerial only in nature, we will probably do a great job of creating managers, but won't get much traction in developing great leaders. Management is not the focus of what leadership is all about. I hear the concerns of those on the forum with boys struggling with what is perceived as leadership i.e. the boys won't listen to me, or the boys have all run off and won't do their jobs, and yet I hear the solution often times suggested fall under the category of management, i.e. you need a duty roster, you need to delegate and persuade them, or worst of all, send them to me, the SM, and I'll deal with it. Training programs on leadership are mostly mislabeled management programs. Strangely I audibly hear, "Why don't you take the lead on teaching this subject." But what I hear in my head is, "Why don't you take the leadership role by using management techniques to convey the message of this subject." After all what does one think a syllabus and leaders' guide and curriculum are all about. 100% management tools! Teachers are not necessarily leaders, it's not a given. Some students become teacher's pets and some become teacher's headaches. To justify in their minds what's going on, it is NEVER the teacher's lack of leadership that is the problem, it is always deemed the child is the problem for any one of a thousand different excuses. Because of this being so effective in our culture today, the problem never gets solved or even addressed properly. Ever go to a seminar for teachers and have them hold workshops on teacher leadership? No where near as many as there are on how to control a disruptive child or conducting classroom discipline. One can manage unruly kids in the classroom, just separate them or send them to the principal's office so that it doesn't have an effect on the other students. Or through leadership ward off the problem before they have a chance to start. Or best of all use one's leadership coupled with a few management skills and avoid the hassle altogether. As scout leaders I hear these same concerns expressed here. We have all heard about everyone's disruptive scouts, those that don't pay attention, those that bully others, etc. etc. etc. and etc. I only offer up what I have learned as another option to consider because a lot of the hassles I hear with unit structure, leadership development, problem scouts, etc. all have their basis in how we as "leaders" "manage" the operation of the unit. If those two words stand hand-in-hand synonymous to oneself, best of luck with your units. If they are not the same, and one can distinguish between the two, enjoy and have fun with your units because one won't need luck to make it successful.