Stosh

I'm thinking bankruptcy court trumps BSA's best card in their hand. I don't know that much about bankruptcy laws, but from what I have seen elsewhere, a lot of times things don't always go the way everyone may wish. Better to keep everyone's cards face up on the table at all times and even then there can be surprise.

Thank you, If I could click the green arrow more than once I would.

After I was "early retired" from my company, I was required to apply for employment as a condition for unemployment benefits. The program director position for the local GS/USA was open for the entire time I was applying for unemployment, every week the position was posted in the paper and online and every week I sent a resume and cover letter indicating interest in the position and my scouting background..... never even got a courtesy call back from them that whole time.

The biggest anti-hypocritical people are often the biggest hypocrites Kinda like the diversity people being racist. Happens all the time.

Nope, sorry, totally unacceptable Boy Scout morality. You say the CO provided nothing when it comes to the troop. Well according to the BSA and the CO's charter agreement, NONE of that troop would be in existence, been able to fund-raise tax free and exist in a location without the signature of the CO. That troop owes it's very existence to that CO, and the BSA would totally agree with me. Sorry, if my troop behaved in this manner, they would immediately be without a SM. That's not the character building lessons I wish to be a part of.

I couldn't find an emoji for "dripping sarcasm" so I had to settle for a

99% of what I do in scouting (and according to my wife, outside of scouting) is considered crazy experiences. Just last night at a troop meeting a Webelos boy and his father (WDL of a neighboring pack) came for a "Visit" to check us out. The boys in the meeting were working on Whittlin' Chip requirements and were carving soap. Of course I invited him to have some soap and carve it too. He said he already had the Chit. I said it was great and handed him a bar of soap. Then I started telling him about my 3 rules of scouting #1 Safety first. With his WDL dad (eagle with palms) looking over his shoulder I glanced out of the corner of my eye and saw him brush a sliver of soap off the knife blade with his fingers. I went over and "yelled" at his dad! I accused him of everything I could think of short of child abuse! The kid thought it was hilarious, but got the message on safety really quick. When I was done I told the dad, in my troop it is my #1 job to make sure all the boys are safe with no exceptions. One of the other boys asked me if I was going to tear up the boys Whittlin' Chip card like I always threaten to do, I said that was up to his Dad to do it, but I told him I would rather tear up his father's card because he was sitting right there and didn't do something about being a good safety person. Being Cubs, the dad played along and the boys all enjoyed the "show". I did know this WDL from where I used to work and he was aware of my sense of humor and understood what I was doing. Before the night was over, I had two new adult parents signing up for the troop ..... both of them Eagles!

I have been told by a few of my fellow scouters that I have been passed over Silver Beaver because I don't have the District Award of Merit. I find that strange that I have a certificate stating such, a nice little paperweight, a Plaque for the wall, and I wear the knot on all my uniforms. I don't know how many times I've been told to get it corrected, I have told the same number of people I don't care. As long as it doesn't keep me from working with my boys, I'm good. So far, every time the unit recharters, I'm marked as trained, so life is good. One of these days I'm gonna find that box with all the DAM junk in it, just for old time's sake.

Another think to consider is if he has documented what was purchased and at what store, he might be able to return to the store and get a duplicate receipt. Some stores in our area have kiosks in the entry way or by the Customer Service counter where one can generate a duplicate receipt for an item one is returning. He could check that out as a possibility. Otherwise, it's my opinion that he has not shown sufficient leadership and will need to do the whole thing all over again from scratch..... This is a good lesson for him to learn early in his life....Good leadership is solving problems and recovering from mistakes. That's not in the Eagle project book, but should be..

One doesn't need to be a big name or celebrity to vote with one's feet. My daughters have already been checking into the American Heritage Girls program for my granddaughters. My one daughter is GS/USA Silver, too.

Pull up a log around the fire, get out your cup, sit down, relax. We're gonna just sit here until National gets it's act together,THEN we will do what's necessary. Until then, do you want cream or sugar with that?

Did ja know that people can get college credit for life experience? Just sayin'

@@CalicoPenn When I left the ministry I left behind a lot of political nonsense, pettiness, and power struggles. I might have walked away from my profession, but I didn't walk away from my ministry. I sat down and looked at my skills and what I have been lead to believe are my passions in life. One obviously, is youth. the other is geriatrics Both these areas in a person's life are super important to help people through gracefully. People in the middle years can basically fend for themselves. But the two ends are special. Ever wonder what the special bond is between the grandparent and grandchild? It's the glue that holds the world together. I had an experience back when I was in my second parish that I'll never forget. My 3-4 year old daughter, my collie-shepherd dog and I would routinely visit the local nursing home. One evening we went through the doors and my daughter bolts to the first person in a wheel chair she sees. She clamored up on to his lap and started a conversation without thinking. How's your day? kinda thing The elderly gentleman visited with her for only about 3 or 4 minutes, but both seemed to enjoy the "talk". My daughter said she had to visit a whole bunch of other people but maybe someday they could visit again. He said that would be okay. Off down the hall she went. The dog and I tagged along. I hadn't gone but 10 feet when a woman approached me from behind she was in tears. She struggle to get the words "your daughter" and "my husband" out between sobs. I figured the next person to show up was going to be the nursing home administrator with an earful for me. I waited for a moment and she finally calmed down a bit and the next words were "Thank you!" It would seem that this gentleman that had just carried on a conversation with my daughter had not spoken to anyone else in the past 10 years, not even his wife. There are certain "triggers" in the life of our youth and other "triggers" in the lives of our elderly. When they connect up, some pretty amazing, even "miraculous" things can happen. Never underestimate your boys and never underestimate their elders.

With different solid colors of paracord, one can alternate two colors into one knot. First tie a two strand Turk's Head then weave the second color in so it ends up a 4 strand knot, two-two strands woven together Think outside the box!

First of all, welcome to the forum! and thanks for posting a good question. I don't know if one will ever be able to teach an old dog a new trick. Many have tried, but I don't know the statistical results of success. One isn't going to be able to do much obtusely either, they've been around long enough they'll see through any shell games. So this leaves me with a question. First of all these guys/gals have been around for 10 years and although haven't had the training haven't drawn any attention to it either. Yeah, on paper and on their shirt, it might be a bit noticeable, but in the real world of taking the boys out and keeping them safe, is there really any problem? Can they function as ASM's? Do they know enough to be of benefit to the adult staff and do they work well with the boys? If one can answer honestly - yeah, they do well in all those categories, then what would going and sitting through a council training class do to make any significant difference? Now, just to be sure you're not going to hit the red down arrow on me because you don't know me, let me put forth an idea that may or may not make a difference in the perception of what's really going on here. You say that you are a Pack TRAINER, a Troop TRAINER, and a Crew TRAINER. Is that focus on the importance of training in the Council clouding the situation in any way? It would seem that you have set a very admirable goal to strive for of 100% trained in your unit. Would these couple of folks be doing the training for you and your goals or would it be for the real benefit of the boys in the field? Add to that, if push came to shove and one were to lose a couple of veteran ASM's would it be worth it only to beat the bushes and end up with a couple of newbie ASM's with training in their place? Kind of a judgment call going on here, which is clearly in your ball park to act upon. Whether or not you really want to do is up to you and regardless of what others may pose here on the forum, it's still your call. For me? Okay, if these were good people, worked well with the boys, the boys like them, training would improve nothing, but would impose them having to waste an weekend at training just so I could meet my 100% goal. I'd probably put people before the 100% goal, but that's just me. I'd tell myself, they earned the right to be grandfathered it and then I would sleep better at night too. Of course being a Troop Trainer, you have access to the class curriculum and could teach these guys on the side so they have the information even if they don't have the certificate and patch. That will be a great sleep aid as well and it will be all in the best interest of the boys if you think it is really necessary.

@@CalicoPenn I tried to draw out a couple of concepts in my original post. 1) Even though he is "stepping down" from SM, he is expected to be on hand for SM support of the new SM. The SM's role of bouncing all changes off of him first so that he has ownership in the processes of the troop still apply. 2) His participation in the Legacy Activities would be mandatory for him. Physically he may not be able to camp, but he still is expected to be a necessary part of the troop, for hiking, for canoeing, for any activity he is able to attend and the activity will be designed with his limitations in mind. It might be going to the local museum and all he does is sit in the coffee shop with the other adults, he's still has to be there. I'm sure the boys would enjoy a Saturday of fishing. All the Old SM need do is sit in his lawn chair and hold the pole in one hand and coffee in the other. He's taken care of his boys all these years, now it's time for them to take care of him and it's not a burden once a month to pull something together. 3) Just because one reaches the rank of Eagle and the troop throws a huge party to celebrate does not mean it's the end of the road! That will be the theme of that celebration. A milestone? Yes. A destination? NO WAY.

It's rather strange that I'm the one who is asked to start new units, be involved on Cub, Scouting and Venturing levels, am sought out by other organization in the community as well as be available to church youth groups of which I'm not even affiliated. I somehow get such a reputation because of my disdain for the BSA program principles? My Eagle scouts are SM trained and WB trained BEFORE the go off to college? because of my disdain for the program? My Eagle scouts are asked to speak at the Council's major fund raiser along with nationally known key note speakers because I have a disdain for the program? I have young men and women going into the ministry to fulfill their mission of working for the betterment of other because of my disdain for the BSA program? I help young men and women who's next step is Juvenile Hall and have been abandoned by their families and they turn themselves around and get their HS diploma and go on to college because of my disdain for the BSA program? Sorry, I follow the principles of the BSA program well beyond the boundaries of the patrol-method out into the community. So, I guess others have their way of doing things and I have mine. The neighboring District wants me to start a new Venturing Crew, they must have heard of my disdain for the program..... I'm sure I'm somewhere down near the bottom of the list and will have to settle for me anyway. I'm not worried. We are not all judged the same. Some see, hear and understand others don't. Been a problem for humanity for thousands of years.

Whatever it takes! I do like the idea of insisting he still needs to be part. The stepping down part should be his decision alone. I would never want the man to feel he is no longer needed.

@@Krampus you missed my point (pun intended) next time use the heavy duty staples and see if that's an improvement!

First of all @@wendibyrd welcome to the forum. With that being said, welcome to the politics of scouting, too. Remember no good deed goes unpunished. It would be good to lay out the ground rules for everyone and then stick to them. If the committee is to do the heavy lifting and the CM has all the fun, so be it. Remember this is all for the boys, not the CM, not the Committe, not the DL's it's for the BOYS! If the committee is not trained, get someone in there and train them ASAP. Then if the committee is to do all the heavy lifting, get organized, and the last thing for the event, make sure the CM know about it, when it is, where it is and RSVP if he can't make it, Hopefully that will make the hassle, the perceptions, and problems go away. Once corrected, move on and don't look back. This is the new legacy for the pack. Do it well so as to not just kick the can down the road.

No I'm not, the disconnect comes in HOW that vision is applied. How the boys are being taken care of can be one vision for the adults and a totally different vision for the boys. This is the area when one moves out of leadership into management. The adult vision is to have mixed patrols, but the boys want to hang out with their gang of buddies. Two different visions..... Mistake was made on the SPL election and the boys will suffer for the next 6 months or even a year, but the boys want a do-over RIGHT NOW! Two different visions.... This goes on and on and I hear it all the time on the forum. The vision of the boys trumps the adults when it comes to scouting and passes the Safety first, Look and act like a Scout, Have fun requirements. Are those rules adult made? Yep, but I have yet to run across a scout that doesn't think they are a good idea. And as far as it being MY vision or goal? A long time ago it was, but over the years, the boys have made it their own and pass it along because they know that it guarantees their leadership in the unit. It is the one thing that forces adults out of the process. If I'm taking care of my boys, the adults have no excuse to interfere. They know it works and they apply it liberally to all aspects of scouting. I have also had many occasions where the boys have told me it works at school and at home too. Imagine that.

A scout is kind, friendly, courteous, etc. I would think this could be handled, delicately yes, but effectively nonetheless. It's time to get the UC, COR, IH, SM, ASM's together to help the SM understand he's holding the boys back a bit and that a change would be beneficial to the SM's legacy in the troop. 1) Old SM becomes honarary SM with emeritus status. He is still expected to be at all scout meetings with the other adults. Maybe register him officially as an ASM. 2) New SM takes over and functions as such but bounces off any and all major changes in the program with the old SM's blessing if possible. 3) Hold a "retirement" "appreciation" banquet for the Old SM, making sure all former scouts are invited. This celebration should rank right up there with the best ECOH ever with maybe omitting the helicopter arrival of the Old SM..... Open convertible would be nice,pick him up at home and drive him to the celebration. 4) Hold a monthly campout, service project AND LEGACY EVENT, where the activity would allow for the old SM to actively participate even with his health restrictions, maybe not overnight, but canoeing where he can paddle if he wants or just ride and enjoy the scenery if he prefers. Make it mandatory he attends! All other events are optional. Maybe he'll be the one driving the pickup truck when the boys do the road cleanup project. Whatever is decided, remember this guy gave his heart and soul to that unit. Make sure the unit lets him know it was worth it.