Stosh

And if read carefully it is a limitation on federal government only. For a while there as long as it did not interfere with federal laws, the states could allow for religious expressions within their borders. Of course that has deteriorated over the years to mean that parents can no longer legally require their children to accept their religion or follow their religious rulings in the household. People who quote the "Constitution" basically have had a few years to reinterpret it to mean anything they wish.

Many were older boys that would have been eligible many years earlier and still were. Just didn't put their names in on the ballot. When one has 15-16-17 year old boys and none are in OA, it kinda stands out at district/council functions. I think this pre-screening by the SM amounts to an adult veto even before the balloting starts. Kinda runs a red flag up in terms of adult controlled. If nothing else it's an obvious testimony that the adults don't trust the boy's ability to elect decent members to the OA.

"And I think it is great if people who opposed the change have a positive outlook for Scouting. It has seemed to me that a few people in this forum do not. I do not "yet" know which category you fall into." Why does everyone need to be pigeon holed as to what camp they are in. I can be a great fan of the scouting program and still believe that National's policies are eventually going to run it into the ground. What camp/pigeon hole does that put me in?

I make opportunities for my boys, not roadblocks. I find out who's eligible, tell them that, then they decide whether they want to be voted on for OA. With the OA in our council as poorly run as it is, not many put their names in for the vote. The council O/A advisor accused me once of standing in the way because I would have 10 boys eligible and only 1 or 2 would be voted on. He was assuming I was blocking them from being voted on. He came finally to the election night, the OA made their preso, the PL's let their boys know who was eligible for election and gathered up the names of those wanting to be on the ballot. No one did. Some of those boys had had 3-4 opportunities they walked away from. For a few years there I was the only OA member in the troop. Eventually a boy did put his name in, was elected, became the OA Rep, and other than that, nothing changed.

I guess I get a little lost in all the labeling going on. I have been told I'm a boomer, for whatever that's worth. I hear the profiling and stereotyping going around right and left and I'm pretty much confused with where everyone is going with this whole thing. I guess I've seen the world with a different set of eyes and maybe in different parts of the country things are different. My situation is far different than what I hear being battered around. I have a lower to lower-middle class neighborhood which is more economic than social so that makes a difference. People can't afford scouts. Add to that the number of divorce situations, who's got the kid this weekend and so he's not going on the outing, I would love to help out but I have 2 other kids at home and no babysitter that's going to work for free, The parent ages run from low 20's to the low 50's, an entire generation of people for same aged kids. Of course from kids running from k-12, the parent ages 23 (Folks married right out of High School, kid in Lions) though 50+, 17 year old scout, parents had him while in their mid-late 30's. So, now tell me how am I supposed to know what pigeon-hole I'm supposed to be dealing with here......I grew up with a land-line telephone that eventually went to a rotary dial to a SmartPhone.I started computer programming in 1970, my skills are now obsolete. So, when someone out there creates the ultimate recruiting program that one-size-fits all that we can all use, let me know. Until then I really don't see much benefit in trying to define what works and what doesn't. I always have to focus my recruiting "presentation" to the individual I'm talking to at the moment, because in 5 minutes I'm going to have to do something altogether different for the next guy/gal.

Love the profiling slant on this.... Most of the problems arise when we can get that process in full swing. So, here's what I see Boys - lazy, technologically tethered to the couch, incapable of consuming food that doesn't come in boxes with microwave instructions on them. Young adults - Self-centered and in serious need of growing up.... any time soon, Middle aged - BFF's to their kids, still trying to figure out what parenting is all about. Will work on that once they move out of the parents' basement. Pre-retirement, - Kids are grown up and gone, empty next syndrome has just set in, Work keeps them too busy Retirement - over-the-hill, nursing home fodder. It's a wonder any adult ever volunteers for working with the kids. It's better to pay a professional to provide the karate, piano, dance, soccer, baseball etc. instructions in life. The rest gets left up to the Pastor and professional school teachers. This of course is supplemented by professional day-care providers as well. Membership is dropping in BSA and churches because they are staffed by non-professional volunteers and what do they know..... Have I got the profiles right?

I used to be a ASM and WDL, then ASM/Crew Advisor, then ASM/Crew Advisor/Church Youth leader, then SM/Crew/Advisor/Church Youth Leader, then SM, then UC, then SM/UC of a new troop startup from scratch, now I'm back as SM/UC/WDL/Church Youth Leader and the council just asked me to start a new crew. I'm retired and I've been at this stuff for 45+ years. If this is your first year, YOU ARE TAKING ON TOO MUCH. You're done with Cubs, don't look back. Take on ASM for a year, NOT AS NSP ASM, you need a broad based learning curve. Maybe after a year preferably two, take over as SM. You can do that for 5 years before your boy ages out.

Over the past 3 years our camporees have been cleaning up the landfill, doing 3 Spookorees for the Cub Scouts and now manning booths for community groups at Earth Day fair. The closest thing we have had to a traditional camporee was a troop put one on, They showed up Saturday morning, ran a few events and then left after lunch. Needless to say, my boys have all learned to avoid camporees like the plague. They would prefer to do their own thing on their own.

And so the fuzzy logic creeps into the conversation. How much adjunct material is allowed before it becomes heresy? I've been accused of such on the forum and it would be interesting to know at what point the scales tip as too much. Too much boy led, patrol method? Is there such a thing? Teaching too many knots? Going out camping too many times? NSP's that just miraculously turn into regular patrols after a year or so? Does it really matter whether paper ballots elect the PL or the boys do the Rock-Paper-Scissors method? As long as they're happy who cares. If they aren't happy they just do something else that might work better. But they can do it at any time they choose, they don't have to wait out 6 months of poor leadership until the adults allow another election. PL runs the show in the patrol, the troop SPL? not really needed unless there are 3-4, maybe 5 patrols needing support. So, from the comments, it would seem to boil down to: "Whatever it is you're doing is wrong and whatever I'm doing is right." So in order to clarify things, whatever it is that whatever you're doing for whatever reason whatsoever, it's wrong and whatever it is whatever I'm doing for whatever reason whatsoever, it's right. Hmmmm, I'm going to write that down, that's profound!

....someone complained to the CM..... ....about something they saw being done by a third person.... ....In my book that's going behind someone's back..... ....Next time complain about the problem to the person one thinks is causing it..... after all they are the only ones that can fix the problem. The CM didn't think it was wrong, but is being dragged into it by the person who refuses to face the problem directly and honestly.

One can do a Rogain event with Cubs quite easily. They are a lot more fun than orienteering.

Ya can add - No registration needed, no insurance needed, don't have a trailer.....

And the question remains, what about units that are not charitable or religious in nature that hold a BSA charter? That was the original posting question. Not only are they to collect sales tax, they are expected to pay sales tax on purchases they make and they should be paying income tax on the money they take in. Everything over expenses is profit because their CO is a for-profit legal entity.

LOL! NJCubScouter... The point being, no matter what "label" one puts on a generation, they're all the same, the have been that way for what, now, 3,000 years? I don't need an expensive class at Philmont to tell me what every generation knows about kids. Sacrates was talking about the kids in his generation and every generation since.

And other than BSA's litigiousness fears what is the "need" you are talking about? If a boy breaks a leg on an outing, what is the adult going to do that the boys can't? How much adult supervision would be necessary to prevent the broken leg? Can adults be just as negligent 10' away as they would be 10 miles away? What if the only WFA trained participants are under 18? If all 8 boys in the patrol are WFA trained, FC scouts, why do they have to drag along two adults they will need to babysit on the outing just because G2SS insists on it?

Yep.

So what if an emergency? What are the adults going to do differently than what the boys properly trained can't do for themselves? Age is irrelevant when it comes to knowledge. This all just boils down to the fact that most adults still firmly believe their children are neither trustworthy nor responsible as an adult. But then show me where being an adult guarantees trustworthiness and responsibility. Parents don't want their children to grow up. They hang on for dear life because someday they will leave them. I've found that the tighter they try to hang on, the sooner they will leave.

“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.â€â€• Socrates This is all one needs to know about kids today. One doesn't have to travel half way across the country or half way around the world to be taught what others have known all along.

Passenger cars, small trucks, trailers, need inspections in our state. It keeps everyone from tail-gating.

BACK WHEN I WAS A KID....... Okay, yes, I just picked up the phone and talked to the operator and told her who I wanted to talk to and BINGO they were on the line. It was right about then my mother taught me a neat trick about phones. Remember, this was before SmartPhones, before cell phones, before answering machines, Ya know, back when the only phone in the house hung on the kitchen wall. Well people tried to contact you and you weren't home, or outside playing, or just wasn't anyone there to 'take the call". So. it rang until it quit and, now here's the secret people.... IF IT WAS IMPORTANT THEY WOULD CALL BACK LATER. Then they came out with answering machines, and people would leave beepy messages.... BUT IF IT WAS IMPORTANT THEY WOULD CALL BACK LATER. So, here's how it works with Mr. Stosh. You call him and talk with him. If he doesn't answer, and it's important you call back later. If you leave a message and it's important CALL back later. If you leave a text and if it's important you CALL back later. You can leave an email or a electronic IM, but if it's important you dial the phone and CALL BACK LATER. The secret behind this unique phenomena is actually talking to the person on the phone, Don't talk to their answering machine, not their cell phone, not their computer, but to actually talk to the person.... especially if it's important. If this is too complicated, or too much effort, let's both agree then that whatever you had to say couldn't have been all that important. Welcome to the 1950's when people actually talked to each other, Sometimes they even did it face-to-face. It was actually quite enjoyable.

..... because common courtesy isn't common anymore. It went the way of common sense.

scab·bard ˈskabərd/ noun noun: scabbard; plural noun: scabbards a sheath for the blade of a sword or dagger, typically made of leather or metal. a sheath for a gun or other weapon or tool. Origin

Our spring camporee for Boy Scouts will be working closely with the community activities for Earth Day. The scouts will man booths for different organizations, provide helping hands for the people coming to Earth Day activities, etc. It's basically a working service project for 2 days. Last spring was similar for the scouts working at the local landfill. It was a lot of reclamation work for the environment. At the end of the day they were to drive 40 miles to where they would camp for the night and then return the next day. Where was the OA for any of this? Nowhere. This is what the AO was expected to do and yet are a no-show when the work rolls around.The only work our OA does is keeping the ordeal candidates busy setting up and taking down summer camp each year. Now they don't even do that and the whole council is invited to come up and do that work.

Lemme get this straight, Bow/arrows, sheathed knives, guns, slings, throwing axes, staves, etc are all okay, but swords are not?

Meeting the requirements of rank isn't always synonymous with citizenship development, moral character, or leadership ability. Scouting used to emphasize these ideals over rank accomplishment. That has changed. An Eagle scout that has worked on his citizenship, morality and leadership along with the requirements is different than the Eagle scout that has just met the rank requirements. Both receive the same honor.