Stosh

First of all welcome to the forum. You have successfully identified why we continue to have adult-led programs even though they are contraindicative of the Boy Scout program. Adults will always do a better job than a bunch of kids. The activities are like the YMCA, kids pay their money, show up, have fun, and go home. They were entertained. They didn't learn anything but for a while they were entertained. Mom and Dad are happy to have spent the money. If Boy Scouts were just an entertainment program this would be just fine, but it never has been and hopefully never will be a program that entertains the youth and keeps them off the streets and out of trouble. I was with a troop exactly like this for a number of years and now that I have seen what a real troop can do if the boys are running it, I'll leave scouting altogether before going back to adult-led. Just remember, 20 boy scouts can do a lot more than one SM and a couple of ASM's. Scouting is a leadership program, not an extra curricular entertainment program for neighborhood boys. Some people outside the organization think that it is and they're wrong, and some people INSIDE the organization that that it is and they're wrong, too.

So, let me get this straight. Service project hours are what Scouts do for others. Community Service hours are what the judge says the county inmates have to perform because they were basically being a pain to the community and owe some elbow grease justice. Do I have that correct?

I can lose that whole article in a heartbeat. Boys will never find it on the internet and all this troop planning will ultimately get lost in the discussion of patrol planning and coordination between patrols. The adults will never outnumber the boys because we only have the SM and the ASM and they are always off jaw-jacking while these kinds of calendar discussions are being held. BOR's? Whenever necessary. COH's 5th meeting of the month Troop Open House - when the Webelos show up. Service Projects - as needed, scouting for food, neighborhood clean up - spring and fall, etc. Cross-overs - Last week in June Summer camp we set, district sets camporees, etc. and the monthly outings are whenever the boys can get away. two this month, maybe none next. This process usually takes us about 10 minutes every year to set up. All the rest of the plans are done on a patrol basis. The boys plan it and the adults get to go along for fun. My boys seem quite please with the way things seem to be working out. Spring hike coming up next month along with a Webelos outing next month, maybe some hiking thing the following month Summer camp after that. Jury is still out on that, only a couple of experienced boys the rest will be Webelos cross-overs and we may need to lean heavily on a mess hall camp this year. Boys haven't confirmed what they want yet.

First of all, welcome to the forum. Glad you feel comfortable tossing us a bone to chew on. From the explanation it's kinda hard to get a handle on exactly what's going on here with the troop. 5 boys to 30 boys with 20 boys not showing up? Sounds like more struggles than just cooking arrangements. First of all, I would reorganize the boys that are attending into 6-8 boys to a patrol and if that means one would have 2 inactive patrols, so be it. That's another issue that would need to be addressed separately. With the reorganization, at least the groups actively going on activities will keep the numbers a bit better than 1-2 scouts per patrol. Then I would get a good background understanding of the patrol method and work from there. If only 10 boys are showing up for a campout, doing "troop" cooking isn't much different than patrol cooking at this point. Go after attendance / patrol dynamic team building and let the eating arrangements slide for a while, There are bigger fish to fry before getting to that point. The boys in the patrols, once they get established will naturally be able to make the transition to patrol cooking on their own. Get the active boys out camping and then start working with the boys to have them recruit the inactives. I am constantly telling my boys to keep inviting the boys that don't show up because they are scouts in the troop until recharter time and they don't renew. This won't happen overnight and one may have already lost the 20 inactive boys, but go after them anyway. Then as new boys come on, focus on getting them oriented well in their first year and get them in the habit of scouting, then start working on patrol development for the new guys coming in. Once one has the basics down fairly well, rely on the boys to give suggestions and options as to what they want to do and that will go a long way in building boy ownership in the program and your attendance issues will slowly decline.

I live in the country 25 miles from the county seat, 6 miles from shopping next closest town. 5 neighbors within a mile. If I need 100 houses in my "neighborhood", it's gonna cover a huge amount of territory.

Do you know if the last guy to use the touch screen computer washed his hands after going to the bathroom? Huh? Huh? OMg, we're all gonna go blind and die!

Being a professional scouter is no different than being a professional computer programmer or professional doctor. If one does not have the skill and temperament to work with kids, they don't belong in as volunteer scouters. ASM's maybe, CC okay maybe, MC okay... maybe. It always reminded me of when the church was looking for Sunday School teachers. They would first ask any of the professional teachers in the congregation if they wanted to and were indignant when they were turned down. They came to me and asked me to put a bit of pressure of them to recruit them because they were already trained. I refused because these people did that every day of the week including grading papers on Saturday and Sunday and the last thing they want to do is come to church and have to work! If I was a professional scouter, I would like a change of pace and probably do some volunteering elsewhere. Yes, I do Scouting, I do church work, I've done community EMT-A for years, and tomorrow I have an appointment to visit with the Red Cross to volunteer OFFICE WORK, for them. I don't want to talk to people I want to shuffle papers! Then in a week or two I'm going to be ushering at the Community Theater so I get to see a theater production for free. I'm going to have to miss church youth meetings now for the next 4 weeks because the Mrs. signed us up for ballroom dance lessons (MY BIRTHDAY PRESENT!) and we're going to learn the waltz and foxtrot. Variety is the spice of life! This is why I don't burn out and stay way over extended with what I do. All of life is an Adventure. If I were a professional employee of the BSA like I have been in the past, I would definitely be looking somewhere else to volunteer my time.

It's all part of my grand scheme of never rising up to my lowest level of incompetence (The Peter Principle, 1969). Creative Incompetence is a lifesaver from burnout! My Council draws straws to see who loses and has to give me my FOS pamphlet!

I'd say signing off on the skill levels of the S-FC is more of a challenge than the S-E ranks. Those top ranks are pretty cut and dry. Count days, count MB's count service hours, tell them to go see SM. What's the big deal about that? PL's sign off on their member's advancement. If, at a SMC, something looks a bit suspicious, I will ask point blank what's up with that, did you really do what the requirement said. The boys will generally be honest and say yes or no. I have had the boys cross off their PL's signature and tell me they want a do-over on that requirement or they demonstrate to me that they know it and then we move on. It's never a big deal. By the way. a board of review cannot retest the boy but a SM at a SMC can.

I had a major go-around on this issue once with a pastor of a church. She wanted me to do a Bible Study on poverty and provided me a program. It had slides with people from Ethiopia (obviously) and SE Asia, Eastern Europe, South America etc. all showing poor starving people. The go-around was a result of the fact that after reviewing all this material the first question I asked the kids was, "How far away do poor starving people have to be before we see them." The pastor got irked that the whole world mission approach wasn't touched on because one of the girls in the class immediately said, "I work as a checker at the local grocery store just down the street and I see it all the time." We went on for an hour and a half on the subject. Excellent discussions from the kids. But the pastor reamed me a new one afterwards. It was the last activity I ever did with that particular congregation. We all see the world differently and when identifying service projects, this dynamic is going to come into play every time.

So you trade in carpal tunnel for laryngitis. It's still risky behavior.

@@Eagle94-A1, The reason the PL's do the COH the way we do it is because otherwise there would be a COH for each patrol. We do everything around the Patrol Method idea and reinforce it every chance we can figure out how to. The first PL does a general welcome, housekeeping stuff and then does HIS patrol ceremony. Passes off the baton to the next PL The second PL does his patrol ceremony and passes off to the next guy. Last PL does his patrol ceremony and then wraps things up. If any PL is due an award or rank advancement, it is done during their patrol ceremony. The PL steps out of his role as PL and his APL does the honors of awarding his PL his award/rank. Then back to being a PL. This process emphasizes the patrol method and the fact that the PL is the highest ranking officer in the troop. No one usually emcee's the whole ceremony, There have been a few over the years to fulfill the Communicator MB, but they just do the welcome and then introduce each patrol and then the wrap up and refreshments. It's pretty lame when they do it, but they do get credit for it. It works better when the PL's do their own thing without the need of an emcee. For a brief time when we had 4 patrols, the SPL did the emcee part. Again, it was more of a distraction to the "normal" patrol oriented process.

@@bbender note the date.

My mouse is laser driven, it doesn't have the old roller ball. Can I still use it? PLEEEEZE! Don't take my forum away, don't take my forum away, don't take my forum away.......

I have always tried to follow the process of SMC where SS is discussed, all requirements reviewed and met and given the nod to proceed with the BOR. If an issue arises in the BOR, I am to be brought in to add clarification. As an ASM or SM my whole time I've never sat in on a BOR except the EBOR's. I have never had a boy needing me to back him up at a BOR because if he's gotten by me with my signature on the SMC, then I'll back him up 100% If a BOR is questioning a boy on his ability to advance, they are questioning my judgment as to him being ready as well.

Public speaking and teaching require speech with slow, deliberate and audible characteristics. Pauses for emphasis, gestures, etc. are all things I teach my boys. While there is very little OA theatrics involved, the boys do quite well with the MC of a COH. The reading parts are usually a bit up-tempo and often slurred a bit with the speed, but as the boys get older and more comfortable, that gets better. I find my boys tend to "do their own thing" when it comes to COH's and other times when they need to "get up front and talk". At a COH one of the patrols (designated before the COH starts, and goes up front, welcomes everyone, etc. then distributes the awards for this patrol member. He then hands off the duties to the next PL who does the same and hands off to the next PL. The last PL does his thing and then thanks everyone for coming and invites them to stay for refreshments.

@@Krampus, it is not clear from my earlier post that the current troop I am involved with does not have mandatory neckers. (#3 above). However, they did decide to have patrol neckers and the adults decided to have their own neckers as well. The troop rule is look and act like a scout. This doesn't require a necker because the issue has never been voted on. Some of the boys thought it would be good, others said they didn't like it. We had the discussion about the neckers being a symbol of scouting even though the uniforms varied from one country to the next. The PL's take a quick "uniform inspection" before flags and if all the boys have their neckers they all wear neckers. If one boy forgot, they don't wear them...for the flags. They are all "uniform" that way. Even if they take them off for flags, some put them back on afterwards. Because they are blaze orange and I can tell my boys from great distances, I request they wear their neckers at scout activities where I may need to find them, summer camp, camporees, traveling, etc. They understand and respect that request. If they don't have their necker, I don't make a big deal about it, but sometimes their patrol partners do. The neckers are hand-made and belong to the patrol. If a boy loses or destroys the necker, he needs to pay to have another one made to replace it. When a boy joins a patrol he is issued a necker. After a certain amount of camaraderie has been established the boys tend to wear the necker. We are a full uniform troop, but when the boys are in their camp site, they do not need to be in uniform. I have seen a boy or two that will wear his patrol necker with non-uniform clothing. They also tend to wear their neckers outside of their coats for identification purposes when traveling in colder weather and jackets are necessary and uniforms aren't obvious. We don't do much with the BSA rules (except what's on the Inspection Sheet) and there is no penalties beyond that. Like the BSA hats, some boys wear them, others don't. It's not a battle we have ever had to fight. When I was an ASM in a necker required adult-run troop, it was a constant hassle. Surprisingly my boys now in my current troop look better than those of my first troop when I was ASM.

If all the boys are in the same patrol, why not? If no necker is for the official uniform, they can still wear neckers with non-uniform wear. The boys can still look like scouts even when not in uniform. And what's to say the kid walking down the street in a Boy Scout t-shirt didn't pick it up at the Salvation Army Store? To me if one what's to look like a scout, it's full uniform or when not in uniform a necker. The boys can't vote out non-uniform clothing.... And to directly answer your question. Yes the boys do want to wear the neckers.

36" square. Council patch sewn on one corner. Unit numerals below that. Patrol patch below that. Can all be sewn with a machine. Can be hemmed or embroidered/surged with different colors to indicate patrol as well. Troop color Patrol hem, POR trim Black necker, white hemmed, gold trim - PL, patrol 1 Black necker, white hemmed, sky blue trim - APL. patrol 1 Black necker, white hemmed, yellow trim - QM. patrol 1 Black necker, red hemmed, gold trim - PL, patrol 2 Black necker, red hemmed, sky blue trim - APL, patrol 2 Black necker, red hemmed, yellow trim - QM, patrol 2 etc. My honor patrol boys also wore the expedition hat with colored hat cords and brass numbers as well. Gold hat cord - PL, sky blue hat cord - APL yellow hat cord - QM, everyone else had a woven tan/green hat cord. The hat cords could also be made to match the necker colors.

@@Eagle94-A1 puts the blame on the decline in scout leadership squarely where it belongs. "When the new SM TOOK OVER, some of the things the NYLT grads were trying ti implement were OVERRULED and IGNORED BY THE NEW SM! Where in BSA literature does it say this is acceptable for any Boy Scout or Venturing program? Whoever vetted this new guy probably just grabbed the closest warm body, got him in uniform and turned him over to abuse the boys... all with the BSA's tacit blessing. I see this as the #1 reason why we no longer have troops of 50-80 scouts and instead have units struggling, if not creatively cheating, to get their 5 warm bodies to be legal once again at recharter time. Scouting used to be the #1 program for developing qualified adult leaders of sound character in our society. Now it's a family fun camp school of kids that learn to identify the trees at the playground.

I love this "patrols can't do activities on their own" line of baloney. Two adults have to be babysitting all the time malarkey. All one needs is parent permission and off ya go! Used to do it all the time when I was a kid. After we all quit scouts to join other organizations, we still continued to camp as a group. If the boys don't like BSA policies, form your own patrol and with parent permission do your own thing like Bubble Ball, Paint Ball, squirt gun fights, and water balloon battles on a Saturday anytime you wish. Through scouts one should have been trained in safety and outdoor skills, so pack up dad's car and have him drop the guys off at the local wilderness location and pick them up at a designated time. The boys can even take along their electronic devices in case of bad weather or an emergency. What does BSA say about that? NOTHING! Knock yourself out and have a good time. Let's see.... a Scout turns 18 and he can do any of these things anyway.... EXCEPT if they have joined Venturing then they CAN'T!!!! Then they have to wait another 3 more years to have fun.... as an adult. Duh!

We promise them adventure and fun and then take away their water guns. That's seriously got to be the dumbest thing that ever came along. Sane people can't even make this stuff up as a joke.

It's not that the adults don't want to change, it's more they don't want to give up control of the program. But the scout is totally correct, unless the adults are willing to get out of the way, NYLT or any other training for the boys is totally a waste of money.

Welcome back to scouting and to the forum!

If anyone is lacking in scout spirit, it's the members of this committee. pure and simple.