Stosh

Of course, @@Krampus, all you need to do is sit down, tell the boys to plan out the year and then have them submit the report to the committee. How hard is that? I just sent out a shotgun blast of canoeing/kayaking, hiking, camping, biking stuff going on in our state to the new crew kids. They're already complaining they don't have enough weekends to get it all in!

@@tnmule20 Don't worry about our tangents, after the first post we always seem to take off in every direction! Kinda like when the DL lets the boys outside for a few moments! As far as the temp patches, seriously, go with the patches with the button loops. They switch out pretty easily. My first uniform I bought when I got back into scouting as an adult has a 1993 Scoutfest patch on it. Way too lazy to take it off and sew another on. That's why I have the bin. Someday I'm going to put that bin of patches on E-Bay and make a fortune.

They might get lost....

Because it's easier and quicker for the adults to just do it rather than take the time to teach the boys how to do it and then be patient enough to wait for it to sink in.

At 110o in the shade I still wear long pants tucked into socks and long sleeves duct taped shut, and if the bugs are bad, head netting. Look like a dork, but I don't worry about bugs or ticks. 50 years later I still remember that my best friend died having been bitten while at a scout overnight activity. He got mosquito borne encephalitis while at WINTER CAMP!

A life is a life, that's all that counts. One does what one needs to do and let the chips fall where they may. Sometimes one wins, sometimes they lose, but whatever chance that person may have had, it was provided the best they could.

Not to worry, it's a never ending progression towards boy-led. You'll do better tomorrow and even better yet the day after. There are conversations going both ways here on the small patrols. Bigger patrols = more shared workload, but I find that two or three guys can knock out a pretty extensive meal and be out and about faster than a group of seven or eight. By myself (and cooking for one other would be no big deal, usually takes me about the same time as when the boys put the big pot of water on and bring it to a boil. Generally I'm all done by the time they get done horsing around burning dinner. The boys will get better with things as time progresses and even the bigger patrols will become more efficient. I always thought that the no-mess hall camps were faster with the in-site cooking, but one doesn't need send people early, then stand in line for a half hour, eat food, clean up the table and then someone still has to do the dish washing. Heck my boys got the fixin's for grilled cheese sandwiches and were done in about 10 minutes start to finish. Cheese sandwiches are just as nurishing as grilled cheese maybe a bit healthier, too. Be patient, give it time, they'll figure it out.

What about the people that show up at UofS for the Dutch oven presentations, How to run a PWD, Canoe Kayak Preso, and still don't have trained on their sleeve? I've seen that more than once. Minimum meat and potatoes is still better than a whole bowl of frosting. We'll just have to disagree. UofS isnt the only continuing ed, Roundtables, and other seminars are just as important. The Webelos trained scouter that moves up into the troop may have trained on his sleeve, but that's not going to cut it any longer, needs more. By the way being over trained can be a problem too. By the bare minimum one could also describe that as the meat and potatoes of the process, the veggies, gravy and dessert are always nice to complete the meal.

If a scout takes a 2-3 month sport hiatus, more power to him. I knew an Eagle scout that lettered in 3 different sports and went on and became a medical doctor. It can be done. He's still active in Scouting.

No one accepts the honor of being bestowed the title of Hero, it is given by others whether they accept it or not. I ran 15 years as an EMT-A in a small town in Iowa because without people like me other people would die. None of us saw ourselves as doing anything heroic. It wasn't even a job, it was just what you did because your neighbors relied on you to take care of them.

Wife? Most certainly if she's a registered scouter, otherwise she's just going to have to just settle for being a hero! Being a doctor does not guarantee emergency knowledge one bit. I was an EMT-A for 15 years and I can assure everyone that those people out there in the field know more about saving lives than pediatricians with all the equipment at their disposal, plastic surgeons, nurses who handle shots and bed pans and have equipment to make life comfortable for patients, but even trauma doctors have not dragged someone out of a car that has rolled over in a muddy ditch, hasn't done CPR over and over and over again and never had the defib training as we have today and never got a save, who no matter how hard they tried, someone died on their watch in the back of an ambulance hurrying as fast as they can trying to get to the hospital. In the ER one simply clamps off a bleeding artery to save a little girl's life. EMT's in the field pinch the artery with finger and thumb and hold it for the 1/2 hour race to the hospital. The pain from the cramp will last for 2-3 days afterwards, but one knows they can't let go or the little girl dies. By the way, one does that in the back of your car while the Mrs. drives because if you drive to meet the ambulance, you can cut down the time it takes to get to the hospital. I don't care if it's Mr. Joe Average so saw it on TV, a volunteer EMT called to the scene or a doctor passing by, holding an artery, saving a life outside a hospital, is NOT part of their line of duty anymore than Mr. Joe Average who has had CPR and Standard Red Cross First Aid Training. Remember the Wife, the DL and the ACM were doing CPR, they weren't doing anything more than what anyone with CPR training would be doing to try and save this boy's life. Let's just look at it this way. If this were a hospital setting the doctor would have staff there to do the CPR...... They probably knew as much about it as any one else trained in CPR. PUT THEM ALL IN FOR MERITORIOUS RECOGNITION. Being there as a DL or ACM was not part of his duty as medical personnel.

I've never used the % of attendance to measure Scout Spirit in the troop/patrol. From day one I always emphasize that Church, Family and School take priority over Scouting. IN THAT ORDER! And surprisingly I don't have an attendance problem. I have a "problem" with a few of my scouts not progressing through the ranks very fast because they miss more than others. I have a few that couldn't make it to summer camp because of family vacations or the "other parent" has visitation that week, etc. But I don't have many boys that miss scouts unless they have to. Hypothetical situation: Johnny is there every activity while in 6th grade, 7th grade and 8th grade. He's now first class and gets selected as QM for the troop. He goes out for football his freshman year and is gone for 4 months, the 4 months necessary to hold Star before he goes on to Life. He misses every meeting for those four months, every outing for four months, but the equipment necessary for every meeting, every campout, every activity is ready to be loaded up ready to go and when it gets dumped back in the scout room on Sunday, by Monday's meeting, it's all back on the shelves where it belongs. The rule says he has to attend 50% of the activities to show scout spirit... but he has attended 0%. So, what am I as SM to do? Hold him back for another four months? Did he fulfill his POR? Yep! Did he take care of his boys? Yep. Did he get his MB's done on his own time? Yep. Service hours on his own time? Yep. Did he do his duty to God and Country and help others at all times? Pretty much. Did he work at being trustworthy, and such? Yep. So the solution? Don't make stupid rules in the first place and one doesn't need to worry about this kind of thing. Train 'em, TRUST 'EM, and let them lead!

@@TWCub That system is going to make it difficult to keep your patrols 300' apart. Instead of any combining, cooperating, sharing, facility process one might come up with, the patrol method needs extensive separation and independence from others. The point is not to make it efficient, the point is to teach the boys independence ans self-sufficiency. If the patrol consists of 2-4 scouts, one doesn't need a full chuck box, a small bin with a few items, cutting board, knife, spoon, spatula, a few spices, measuring cups,spoons, one ought to be able to get buy quite nicely. Keep it in mind that there is no way one is going to haul 3 patrol boxes into the Denali back country, so one had better start learning how to do that or one will never get there. One is focused on learning and experiencing. If a patrol only gets to cook every other time, they are missing half their education!!!

I prefer sweet and sour pork over fried rice done up in a mess kit myself. 50 years ago mess kit cooking was far more popular than Dutch oven cooking and what most people don't realize with their plastic mess kits is that the standard aluminum mess kit of today is a mini-Dutch oven, Yes, one can do up a fantastic blueberry muffin the size of the inner pot inside of the mess kit. It's really unfortunate that kids today don't know how to do that style of camp cooking.

EXCUUUUSE ME!?? I can speak for myself!! We ain't talkin' bout temp patches from UofScouting here, the one patch that IS NOT in my bin is the small patch that says TRAINED on my left sleeve. That is not a bling patch. That's a fur real one. Seriously, one can have all the UofS degrees in the world and none of them is as important than the position trained patch on the left sleeve. I have all the training from Cubs through Venturing including the UC and Committee position training because I want to know what those people are supposed to be doing to support the boys. UofScouting is kinda like the frosting on the cake, the nice neatsy training, the meat and potatoes is the "Trained" patch.

I seriously considered buying a $100+ autographed picture of David Tennant for my daughter. But changed my mind now that she won't come visit and bring my granddaughter anymore..... just because I have a Weeping Angel in my living room and another one guarding the front door. Cheeesh!

I wear all my patches in a bin in the garage. it's almost full now.

I took my Webelos boys on a weekend canoe trip. The paddle was about 15 minutes out to an island with no facilities and the boys had a blast. Well. Every boy/father combo had their own canoe and getting to the campsite ended up being a combination of automobile travel and canoe travel, but all the families showed up just fine.

I can see keeping the boys in their patrols for cooking even if the number falls below 2-3 boys. There is absolutely no motivation to work on getting others in the patrol to show up for outings if they are going to blend the patrols together anyway. As an adult leader whose other leader has dietary restrictions and does her own thing, I end up cooking for myself all the time. It won't fulfill any requirements for advancement, but it's not the end of the world either. I had 2 boys wanting to start their own patrol. They were going to go out and recruit and basically what they did was draw POR credit for doing nothing. They thought this was a big joke until it came to summer camp. No mess hall camp and they needed to cook by patrols. Well the one boy broke his leg 2 days before they were going to leave. That left one boy all week long that had to do everything by himself. That lasted until Tuesday when I was notified that the boy was now a member of another patrol. It wasn't a temporary thing, it was a real move to the patrol. After summer camp the boy with the broken leg found out he was in a patrol all by himself and gave up his shenanigans and joined an established patrol as well. Sometimes one has to hold their ground and let the boys work out their failures on their own. Older boys being affected by fumes? This is another myth in Scouting. They are not being lured away by the excitement of the various fumes, they are leaving because of the redundant boredom of a poorly run program. It's time to let these boys be 16-17 year old boys at the top of their scouting game and let them put those skills into their adventures. THEY DON'T WANT TO TEACH SQUARE KNOTS TO THE NSP! If I were given the choice between teaching square knots or going kayaking. I'd be out of there in a heartbeat! Why would a 16 year old young adult not feel the same way? Lemme see here.... Going on a date with Jeanie Sue or going to council summer camp for the 7th time? Hmmmm, I'll get back to you on that one. Now, if we're talking heading out west for a week long camp in Yellowstone's or Denali's back country or 100 miles of the AT, Maybe some serious whitewater kayaking, I'm thinking Jeanie Sue might not make the grade.

When a SM does his/her job correctly, there should be no red flags thrown up by the BOR and added requirements tossed in to boot as described by the OP. The BOYS are the responsibility of the SM and his/her staff, not the troop committee. The job of the troop committee is to insure the PROGRAM of the unit is functioning properly. So then when did it become the responsibility of the committee members and ad hoc others to evaluate, judge, retest, and/or in any way question the validity of the scout's efforts after he has already been fully vetted and approved by the SM and his/her staff? I can fully understand a BOR asking the boy how his experience has been in the program, maybe ask for some input in how it could be improved, whether or not he is planning on staying with the program, is he having difficulties with personalities in the troop both youth and/or adult. etc. All these thing relate to the quality of the PROGRAM, not the success/failure of the BOY. The adversarial part comes in when the troop committee begins to re-vette the boy and question his success at attaining rank. That's not their job. They haven't been on the campouts, they haven't been at the training opportunities, they haven't had much if any contact with the boy so their little inquisition is intrusive and uncalled for. However, in the OP, not only is the boy's honesty drawn into question, so is that of the SM and staff as well as adding more requirements to the process, all of which is borderline bullying and political posturing on the part of these people. Nope, if a BOR ever pulled this on one of my boys, they would get an earful from me, my staff and I would do it in front of the boy who's honesty is being questioned. He has a right to know why they feel obligated to bypass BSA policy and play games.

From what I'm seeing in the OP, it sounds like the older boys are the ones backing off. That would mean that whatever older boys one would have having just picked new patrols may indeed have the older patrols loaded up with the older boys. The new guys would be hung out to dry. If they had TG's that would help. I do realize that in the quest for the idea patrol method setup, these new guys might be more inclined to having PopTarts and hot dogs for a while. I would much rather have the suggestion tossed out there that would align the boys into those that want to be there and those that don't rather than ending up with a whole bunch of fragmented patrols of one or two. Don't ad hoc them for camping, just align them that way as a patrol of boys that want activities and not worry so much about the one staying at home at least not in the beginning of the patrol-method transition.

Welcome to the forum. Moooving right along, you should do well in Scouts even if you didn't get to do it as a youth.

As far as I'm concerned after my SMC, the only reason a scout goes to a BOR is to collect signatures. If the board wants to chat a bit, fine, but if the boy doesn't get signatures, I want to hear about it immediately. Then I'm going to have a little chat, too.

@@Tatung42 I was in your position for 13 years, it doesn't get any better. I eventually left.