Stosh

As a Wisconsinite I can assure you deer whistles are totally ineffective! At night the lights "freeze" deer and they will not move. Blowing the horn will scatter them. So if one is cruising down the road at night doing 65 mph and there's a deer staring at you in the middle of the road" turn off the lights and lay on the horn. It does work! (if you have the nerve)

In all seriousness, the PL signs off on the advancement of all his patrol members, but because of the SM-approval necessary for the POR the APL has had to do some pretty impressive work to have the PL come forward and ask for that approval. The validation and documentation necessary along with even references from patrol members... made it difficult for me to say no. We aren't talking about helping your buddy get by on the requirement. The Catch-22 occurs when no one wants to be APL because they don't get POR credit and the SPL's tend to get picked from the good APL's. So when a boy steps into the APL position and busts his butt and takes a pass on rank advancement for Star and Life, that seems like a major injustice and the boys all know it. But as we have all been taught by the BSA, APL is a worthless POR, but the boys need a piece of bling on their shirt while they sit around on their hands waiting for the PL to not show up. On occasion I have had a APL turn that position into an art-form and have done some really impressive work and I for one if the PL requests it will not stand in the way.

If one is really serious about his whole issue of getting lost in the woods kind of thing, As a hunter, noise and movement are more noticeable than color. Whenever I hear a noise in the woods hunting I just stare in the general direction of the noise and somewhere in my vision something will move and give itself away. A turkey hunter walking through the woods wearing a gilly suit might as well be wearing a neon sign.

Socialized medicine means the government, not the parent is in control of the welfare of the child. From cradle to grave, the government owns your soul. Used to be the company store we were slaves to, now it's the government. Sorry, had to edit this so it wouldn't get set to I&P....

@@Cambridgeskip My comments were never meant as a judgment of anyone. Not everyone has the skills or background to handle difficult situations and I completely understand that. Not all SM's are good with ADD/ADHD or Autism or any one of a number of social issues and/or even physical and mental problems that young boys are challenged with. Yet how we react to those things tells us as much about ourselves as it does about those we encounter. Psychology has always taught us that there are only two options we face at times like this Fight or Flight. Or lets put it this way, are we going to engage the problem or are we going to separate ourselves from the problem? So I can put a scout on probation for 6 months and wait for him to fix his own problem (which he has had all his life) or one will officially make the separation know to the world. Or I can engage the scout for 6 months and find out what the issues are and whether or not I can help him. Now I might not personally be able to help him, but maybe I can find others who can if I have a good handle on understanding his problem. I find I drag less guilt home with me with the second option. I have had a lot of experience with at-risk kids over the years and one of the first things I did for self-preservation in the program was to realize I was the "outsider" I had to engage and understand their situation in life if I was going to be of any help in their lives. Let's put it this way, If I couldn't get through to these kids they didn't get kicked out of the program, they got sent to jail. I was their last chance. The onus was on me! NOT THEM! I had to step up my game for them! Over the past 45 years, my perspective has never changed whether it be with at-risk kids, church group kids, scout kids or neighborhood kids, it's all the same. I might be their own chance... and I don't know which ones they are when they come to me.

Most problems if left untreated for many years will tend to get worse over time. As SM go to the parents and tell them their child needs professional help and see how far you get. When I was in the ministry I would teach Senior High Sunday School, Middle School confirmation and late grade school Vacation Bible School. That way I have many consecutive years with the kids in my congregation. When the 4th grade Sunday School teacher gave me a dire warning about "Johnny" who would be coming into my VBS class in the summer. He had been a pain in every teacher's neck since the start of 3 year-old's Sunday School. Well, what they couldn't figure out is why I didn't have a problem with him in VBS and Confirmation and by the time he got to HS he was doing well. I didn't have the heart to tell them the problem might not have been the boy. My first clue? The 4th grade Sunday School teacher gave me a dire warning......

Explain to me now the APL working as the PL's right hand man, making sure everything is running smoothly for the PL's relationship to the patrol members is any different than the SPL working as the PL's left hand man, making sure everything is running smoothly for the PL's relationship to the adults. This is why I have no problem with it being a troop project. If the boy goes into the APL position, just sits on his hands waiting around for the PL to not show up for some activity and then stumbles around not knowing what's going on in the patrol, then there is no way on God's green earth he's getting credit for the project. But if he is working hand in hand with the PL, learning how to work the relationships between the PL and each patrol member, is knowledgeable of every detail necessary to help make things run smoothly, and is capable to of shifting those dynamics at any moment to working the relationships between the PL and each adult leader as SPL, then I would have a difficult time denying the boy leadership project credit. That is the project! Is the Eagle project to demonstrate leadership or manage a service project for an outside organization? For me the role, objective and deliverable for PL (patrol method structure), SPL (PL support of the patrol method structure between the patrols), APL (PL support of the patrol method structure within the patrol), TG (patrol method structure orientation for the new boys), is all the same. I view my "troop" not as a troop but as a grouping of individual patrols. The only thing we do as a troop is flags, but the boys do so as a patrol. Even traveling to and from scout activities is done as a patrol. In reality the ASP generally does more work than the SPL and TG and sometimes more than the PL who he is working for. He is a true assistant and if anyone wants to talk to the boss of any major corporation, they have to first get by the administrative assistant, They are the people in the real leadership position.

If one feels that the problem lies with just the boy and that only the parents can deal with it, they are missing out on a major learning opportunity for the PL, the patrol members and the adult working with the program. First of all if one is using the patrol-method, how is the this boy not isolated from the rest of the troop? And why aren't the patrol members taking care of each other? Maybe the PL needs some extra guidance/support from SPL in handling this issue? What adult resources are going into this issue? I have had more than one occasion where the boy who is seeking attention gets positive attention from his patrol mates and settles in quite nicely. If one is using the troop-method, it offers up a wide range of distractions and a greater audience to draw from and does nothing but cause major problems. I find that the biggest "trouble makers" are those that have found it difficult to find a comfortable "home" in their patrol and their "friends" have not been very friendly. Under these circumstances, maybe more than just the one boy ought to be kicked out for not taking care of their buddies. Once one figures out that the leadership, maturity and boundaries all fit together, things run a lot smoother. I have mentioned many times I don't seem to have these kinds of problems in my troops, and I really don't think the make up of my boys is any different than for anyone else's.

In known bear country, I have been known to make quite a bit of noise as well. LNT does not over-ride safety.

As a general rule, No. But at the request of the PL, I have given POR credit to a scout having done a SM-approved special leadership project. While a First Class Scout, serve actively in your troop for four months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility (or carry out a Scoutmaster-approved leadership project to help the troop): 4 Assistant patrol leader is not an approved position of responsibility for the Star rank. So, NO, I do not give POR credit for APL. I give credit for SM-approved leadership projects. I do tend to feel that by using the patrol method, that whatever leadership development one provides on the patrol level will eventually benefit the troop. As I have noted in other comments with the exception of one time, the SPL's have been PL selected from the position of APL. @@Krampus There are two exceptions to this. 1) Being APL does not mean it is automatically approved for POR, only if the recommending PL feels the APL has functioned at a level worthy of a leadership project and with the support demonstrated in assisting the PL in working with the patrol would be capable of doing the same support by assisting the PL as SPL if called upon to do so. And 2) It would not apply to the Eagle rank because the special leadership project option is not available. While it sounds like a real bending of the rules, it is not as easy as one thinks, but on a couple of occasions the PL's have gone to bat for their exceptional APL's who they thought deserved the credit for the work they did. Keep it in mind that when the POR is checked off on advancement by the PL, the SM-Approved part must be addressed with the SM. The PL always has a compelling case for such a request.

In my troops the APL's are not just a patch wearing opportunity for no advancement. While I do not actively promote an SPL, the boys did place them when they needed one once they reached 4 patrols. Of course, none of the boys wanted to give up their PL positions because in the units I serve as SM, the PL's are the highest ranking position. So who got picked as SPL? Well the qualification list consisted of who has the best track record of supporting the PL's already? Instead of a boy assisting the PL with members of a patrol, this person would simply assist the PL's with the adults. The SPL that was selected was the consensus of the PL's best APL. It was interesting to note that when a PL was replaced the first person the patrol would look to was the SPL to be their PL. Only once was a SPL selected by the PL's who wasn't an APL. I have, at the request of the PL's, given POR credit to their exceptional APL's as a SM's special leadership project. All my POR's are functional, including GrubMasters and ActvityMasters.

I live in Wisconsin. If one is observant of the woods around them, they are fully aware of any hunters in the area. Even the heavily camo'ed turkey hunters are easy to spot. If one doesn't see them, they are painfully aware of your presence because you have just scared away every turkey in a 5 mile radius just by walking through the woods. If one was truly worried about the hunters in the woods, bright clothing would not be much of a deterrent. I usually hear the cacophony of their noise long before I see their circus attire. Oh, by the way if done right, one can use these people to drive game towards oneself if strategically positioned in the woods. I have hunted public lands and State Parks where walking trails are always present. A hunter can work that to their advantage especially when people who have no respect for LNT are present.

I work my boundary issues in with the leadership development emphasis in the troop. I find that once a boy figures out that negative attention does not draw the biggest crowd, they tend to square themselves up. The biggest most obvious problems arise from the boys who have not had the opportunity to develop social and leadership skills from their home and/or school settings. They tend to be "misfits" and are quite lonely and have no skills to change that so they act up garnering any attention even if it's negative. While on the surface teaching boys social skills is not as emphasized as leadership and outdoors skill sets, it is still a necessary part of character development of the Oath and Law. A boy acts up and how do others react? Is their reaction within the boundaries of the Scout Oath and Law? Is the boy treated with helpful kindness? Does courteous fit in anywhere in one's reaction to his infraction? OR is the reaction one of punishment, separation and encouragement to quit the program because one doesn't want to have to deal with what should have been done by his neglectful parents? I have had boys quit the troops over the years, but I have never had to "send a boy home", "have his parents come and pick him up" or tell him he can't be part of the troop any longer. If I ever get to that stage of the game, I'll quit Scouting because I can no longer an effective Scouter. All the boys that join my troop are my responsibility to HELP out, not KICK out.

Is there any age limits on a pre-paid card, gift card, or debit card on a legitimate bank account?

I avoid the wearing of bright colored clothing. They tend to draw black flies in my neck of the woods. I don't get lost because I carry a map and compass in areas that I am unfamiliar with. My canoes are painted camo colors. I really don't ever see myself going through the woods in neon colors, bright colors like a walking banana for instance. My clothing including BSA uniform then to be tans, and neutral natural colors. If perchance I do get lost and need to become visible, I have a blaze orange poncho I carry in my backpack that doubles as an emergency rain coat/fly/shelter. I kinda go along with the natural crowd. I don't go into the woods to see a circus. It kinda goes hand in hand with not doing the off-road scare the animals treks, the snowmobile, or bass-boat approach to the out-of-doors. I generally try to find places that are remote, quiet and easy on the eyes. I have always appreciated that LNT is more than just keeping the garbage off the ground, There's a time and place for everything. I make the effort to respect the woods, not just the other people in them. It's not my living room, dress accordingly out of respect for whose living room it is.

Occasionally one does come across a boy who is devoid of social skills that they really didn't know. Parenting skills cannot be assumed in this day and age.

I am more in line with @@Krampus a well disciplined group has the boundaries spelled out up front. This way when discipline is necessary there are no "I didn't know." argument available. Usually "the Look" is all that is needed. I very rarely have to go that route because the PL usually has it under control.

I find that the longer a scout stays in the program, the more they retain regardless of the rank. An 18 year old FC scout has more going for him, than a 14 year old "eagle" that bails after his ECOH.

Yes,time offers a sense of maturity, but is capable of pushing to a younger age if not held back with preconceived beliefs. If one does not believe great things can be done by an 11 year old, they will not give that person the opportunity to prove it. Only when that person gets old enough to prove themselves on their own do they get a chance. That's unfortunate.

I find defining injustices as having to be a certain size before they are to be taken seriously, the first step in justifying bullying. Sorry, I will not be a party to such practices.

Probably because most people have no idea what an APL is supposed to do. Most of the time they sit around doing nothing until the PL doesn't show up. They are a total waste of time. But if they function as an assistant to the PL they should get credit for it. Same with the ASPL, that POR is the same waste of time in most units I have seen. In troops of 8 or less, the patrol QM is the Troop QM. Sometimes the patrol QM does more work than the troop QM. When it comes to the BSA sometimes the rules don't make sense....in case one didn't notice.

I guess it boils down to how well one is running the program. Maybe BSA expects FC in the first year, but then not all units promote advancement over maturity. I have never promoted the FC,FY emphasis and go more towards orientation and leadership development the first year. If my boys spend all their time on self advancement and very little on teamwork and patrol development, then lessons in taking care of your buddies and helping other people at all times are a waste of time. Real Scouts are made from day one, not when they complete a leadership project. They might be the exception to the rule, but I have seen a few TF scouts with more maturity than some of the Eagles I have met.

I thought it was the wine that caused the fog.

Nobody is absolutely right all the time, but then again nobody is absolutely wrong all the time either. It just boils down to what shade of grey you happen to like at the moment. Chances are you might be the only one that does.

Sometimes.