Stosh

Interesting phrase: "PL is really accountable to the troop for the activities of his boys." @@qwazse and then we have: " It's as if the troop was the fundamental unit of Scouting, whereas BSA says expressly that the patrol is the fundamental unit of Scouting." @@TAHAWK. So which is it? is the patrol or the troop primary? With patrol method, I am leaning heavily with TAHAWK and going with the patrol controls the flow of activity in the troop, it is not just a sub-set section of a troop and the troop is the impetus behind the activities. To me that is troop method. I would find it very difficult to operate a patrol method program if everything is accountable to the troop. If that be the case, just go with the troop method where everything IS ACCOUNTABLE to the troop. With POR's then, I would drop PL as a POR along with APL because it is the only patrol level position and would be useless in a troop method program where everything is run from a troop level. Don't get me wrong, as UC I see this happening all the time especially in a micro-managing SM or SPL. I wouldn't however, define such an operation as patrol method scouting. The phrase just kinda struck me odd in that with my boys the PL is accountable to his boys, not the troop. The phrase I use is PL's take care of your boys, not your troop.

That's why I left credit card off the list. It needs a credit history to get it because it is a loan. Pre-paid, gift and debit cards are all backed with existing funds. If a boy has a bank account his debit card will "expire" when the funds are not there, the same way a pre-paid and gift card once it has no money is useless.

I focused more on the special interest posts and they didn't use them much if at all. We did have GI posts, but they were already established before the onset of co-ed Exploring.

My extra uniform go to scouts who can't afford one of their own, even off of Ebay. If I can't find one on Ebay for the boy, I buy a new one for him.

I was setting up a ton of Explorer posts back in the mid 70's and I don't think they were doing uniforms back then. At least none of the General Interest Posts used them. I think the Law Enforcement and Fire Department Posts might have had some sort of auxiliary uniform reflective of the Post's interest but nothing official. I don't know when the new Venturing uniform came about, I was a CA for 15 years and never needed one. Hopefully others will have more details than what I have to offer.

I'm not a tax lawyer and from the description given, the people seem to be coloring so far outside the lines that I wouldn't dare offer even the most remote suggestion on this. The reason CO's are non/not-for-profit is that the income from anything is not taxable. I do believe that the once popular 5 adults sponsoring a troop/pack needed to establish a non/not-for-profit legal entity to do so and then go through the annual legal issues every year. I would have the parish ask one of it's lawyer parishioners to dig to the bottom of this and get it all straight. Hundreds of Catholic Churches sponsor troops and pack and don't seem to have the hassles being described here. If I were you, I'd "with all due respect" turn over the treasury fiasco to the committee to sort out, this is not the responsibility of the treasurer to be in this position. Once they have it resolved, then take over the treasurer position. Not meaning anything negative towards you, but you are in no position to be making these kinds of decisions for the troop. It was this kind of poor judgment and questionable decision making that got this mess established in the first place.

As an ASM, a CA and SM, I have taken people to small claims court and gotten back the property of the CO. It's not that hard to do. What one does NOT want to do is get a settlement judgment that the person is not going to honor. Instead, file and appear in court and if the people with the property do not show, it is normal to have the judge settle with a judgment that will never get resolved. He will say you have the right to the property, but getting it is is next to impossible. Instead, ask the judge for a contempt of court ruling for not showing up at the hearing. Nothing gets peoples' attention like an outstanding arrest warrant. It's rather surprising how fast that property shows up and the contempt charges dropped when done in this manner.

http://www.deeringbanjos.com/ San Diego County is about as southern CA as one can get....

The real meaning of the Eagle (or any other rank either) isn't fully developed until after age 18

Now there's a place I want on my bucket list! NOT!

The Mrs. and I walk the dog in the evening. Never try to take the same route twice. Always have a pick-up bag for the dog. Unfortunately there's not always enough room to pick up after Fido after picking up all the other garbage along the way.

I don't mind the two-deep leadership thingy.... After all of the boys are planning a really neat outing and leave me behind I'm gonna be pi$$ed.

If a gal in pink camo showed up, no one would even notice the beer or guns.

Okay, I apologize for being a big kid, but why not just have a potluck party, have some games, eat a lot of good food and skip the boring ceremonies? If I was a Cub Scout I would want to run around, play games, yell as loud and as long as I want, eat too much food especially the sweets, drink too much Koolaid and spill a portion of everything I ate on my shirt. At the campfire each DL reads about all the fun their den did. Now the Tigers are going to be pumped up for next fall's program and the older boys will be able to reminisce about all the fun things they did and had forgotten about Hype up the summer camp outings coming up and don't worry about how perfect it is. The boys don't want perfection, they want fun.

@@JosephMD One has to remember that on this forum we offer a little something for everyone. The Wolves bring down the elk and get the choice cuts, but the Bears come along and now we're talking a different story. The flies get their shot at it as do the turkey volchers get their shot, and by the time it's all over the field mice have ground the bone to powder. Who da thunk that white powder in the forest used to be an elk.....

The State of Wisconsin is contemplating pink camo as appropriate for deer hunting season. It is readily visible to humans and does address the encouragement of women to hunt. However it is quite a different social stigma associated with it. If you are female and show up without any beer at deer camp it might be okay. But if you are a guy, you can't show up with enough beer to justify it. PERIOD.

I was 15 years with a troop as ASM before I couldn't handle it any longer and moved on to a unit that needed a SM. Since then that old troop kicked out their Silver Beaver, WB SM. They haven't come to me for advice for at least a month now. I left 7 years ago....

How can one kick a boy out of a program that might have been physically present but mentally and emotionally absent? Those boys had already left long before you said a word.

And this is why I don't have elections!!! and I don't have terms!!! Elections and 6-12 month terms are an adult political agenda item. I have boys selected by their peers to do the job. If the job ain't gittin' done, someone else is put in that position and they keep doing this until the right guy is doing the right job. If you want to be PL you gotta earn the right to be there. This is why my APL's get selected as SPL's! Tommy wants to be PL and Johnny is the PL now. The only way he's going to get the job is to prove to the patrol he would be a better PL. Get to work! It would take about 2-3 weeks for @@blw2's son to be noticed as doing a better job as PL and in a heart beat he'd be PL. End of discussion. This is the beauty of the NSP, it automatically sorts the boys into who's going to work for the group and who isn't. If you haven't had an opportunity for 2-3 different jobs by the time you reach FC, how in the world do you know if you can do the QM job or the Scribe job or TG or Instructor? Better get your feet wet before the time comes when it counts for real.

In my patrols it would seem that everyone is an APL then. At one time or another everyone is a GrubMaster, I seldom see only one patrol member doing the QM job, Generally speaking only the PL wears a patch I don't think any of my boys have ever worn a APL patch even though they function as one. With times when we only had one patrol, does the patrol QM get credit for troop QM? or is there some special BSA regulation against it or maybe the SM has to fudge a bit on the advancement requirement? I have given POR advancement credit for a boy being the Popcorn Chairman for the troop. Didn't have a POR badge for that, but the work he did was fantastic as a SM-approved leadership project. I have even given POR credit for boys doing 4-5 different POR's during their 4-6 month tenure. If they can document it and their PL approves it, they get credit for it. i do have to admit that when it comes to POR's the PL's are pretty tough on the boys. They think they are under heavy obligation to do a good job especially when it comes to POR's. The troop POR's are even more stringent in that a consensus of PL"s have to be met before they are signed off. They are not members of the PL's patrol, but the patrols are the recipient of the troop POR's work. If it is not up to par, the PL's are not going to approve it. When we did not have troop POR's and yet multiple patrols, the PL's still evaluated the POR's for the 2 QM's in a 2 patrol troop. How well did they work together, was the equipment in good order, did each patrol get a fair shake in the equipment, etc. Scribes were even tougher to get passed because they needed the nod of approval from the the treasurer and advancement MC's. Knowing this, we seldom have issues with boys not fulfilling their POR duties even when we don't have anything in writing as to what those duties might be. The PL's need only ask once for help from them and if they don't support that request, they run the risk of "not getting the job done." It works well for us, your mileage may vary.

Yes under most situations. If boys all go out and rake yards as a patrol and buy patrol gear it's theirs. If they use the CO's non-profit status to raise money, it belongs to the CO.

Mrs. Stosh wouldn't get caught dead in pink camo!

I rely on exit interviews over the phone with boys that have dropped the program. What they like is handled every time the patrols meet. What they don't like is caught at the exit interviews.

Really?

Not according to the BSA. APL is nothing more than sitting around waiting for the PL to now show up. So what does the SPL handbook and PL handbook say about the APL's duties? NOTHING!! So if they are doing nothing they are doing their job! So if the APL does anything they are doing something outside the role of an APL, and the only ones the PL bring to me are those that have done something substantially outside the role of an APL, like being a real asset to the PL and his work with his patrol. The SPL is supposed to be elected by all members of the troop by secret ballot... that's never happened in my troops. The SPL is the top leader in the troop, that has never happened because the boys in the patrol method view their PL as the top leader. My PL's generally are not elected by their patrols. They can do rock, paper, scissors as far as I'm concerned and yes, I have seen them doing that occasionally. The SPL is selected by the PL's. So there are a lot of things I do that help maintain the patrol method in my troop and none of it is dictated by the adults, this is how the boys like it and it's my position that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Or as I have said before, there's nothing so bad in the patrol method of operation that can't be made worse by adults messing with it.