Stosh

Scourge, In no way did I mean to imply that the Venturing program disrupts or tears apart a troop. Usually what happens is they blend to the point where it is Boy Scouts for girls. One cannot be a servant to two masters, one of the programs will suffer as they try to create their own identity. If they blend then it's no big deal they just have co-ed Boy Scouts. Otherwise one of the two programs will not receive the full attention of the leadership. What I see happening in our area is the Venturing program takes off full bore and then dies on the vine. The goal now is to develop super Crews instead of multiple under-supported Crews. The Crew I am starting will encompass a very large area of a single district. This might sound a bit difficult, but my other crew that I had great success with covered multiple Councils in multiple states and operated just fine. We're planning on starting out the new Crew with 20-25 charter members.

I live 30 miles from the camp. My potato plants, my grapes, the iris and my sumac trees out front of the house were wiped out, The Mrs. did save her herb garden by covering it. My neighbor was livid in that he took a chance that we were going to have an early summer and he took a big hit in his garden. I normally don't put my garden in until Memorial Day Weekend. I do remember a couple of Mothers' Day Weekends growing up that we went out in the morning and built a snowman. It had snowed enough once to collapse the back of my pup tent and bend on of the awning poles on Dad's camper awning. Our troop has military sleeping bags and all the boys were required to use one for the weekend. We knew it was going to be cold. Personally, I heard more whining out of the adults than I did out of the boys. "My feet were frozen!!" "Did you wear wool socks?" "Heavens no, I can't sleep with anything on my feet!!!" "Hmmmm, I see." "I was freezing all night long." "Did you put your extra blanket under you?" "No, the cot was very comfortable." "Okay, then. Hey, everyone, coffee's ready!" In this part of the country at this time of year, one can expect just about anything. The really funny thing about it was the National Weather Service put out an Extreme Weather Warning for the late frost forecast. It is kinda hard to take those gov'ment people seriously anymore. Okay, okay, okay...!!! DANG I'm a little slow this afternoon. It was supposed to be <32oF!! I have no idea why my spell checker didn't catch that.

I attend RT fairly regularly. It is right after the UC meeting so I just hang around a bit longer. When they have RT out in the district somewhere, I don't go. I can always find out what's going on with the district off the council website. Last RT was supposed to be the big year end district "dinner." It was a potluck in the basement of the church where RT's are usually held. A hearty round of applause was held for all the great food that was brought by dedicated scouters. About 1/4 of the food was prepared in the traditional manner with the other 3/4th's being contributed from a selection from the local grocery deli, KFC, and whatever convenience store one happen to be passing on the way to RT. And then they can't figure out why I'm not all agog about attending? Seriously? Next year if one attends, they get to write their name on a piece of paper and drop it in the big fish bowl that will be used to draw the winning name of a free weekend of cabin camping at the council camp. I just took my Webelos boys to council camp and camped for free in tents. They did one of those pass around "awards" that was supposed to be taken home, put something on it and bring it back next RT. I "won" it once and "forgot" to take it home, then I "forgot" to bring something to put on it and when they said that wasn't being fair to everyone, I informed them it was better than having me take it home and "forget" to bring it back.... ever. I never won it again after that. Over the years I have been in attendance at the 3 different RT's of the 3 different districts. Some where better than others, but the one I attend now I attend regularly because I haven't figured out how to gracefully disappear after the UC meeting....

Like a proud Pappa??? As I mentioned to Krampus, these ARE your boys! Legally one has children, but along the way, whether it be remarriage, or Boy Scouts of America one gets to have BONUS kids! I brag up my bonus kids as much as I brag up my biological kids. Sometimes more.....

But of course!! When those 5 boys have their ECOH together, remember this day! 20 years ago my Webelos boys did that, I know I was more proud of them than their dads. One of the boys even commented that because I had been his WDL and ASM for 9 years, no other adult male other than his father had spent that much time helping him with growing up. Who needs a mentor pin when a boy says that to you? Imagine, if the Webelos boys do a stellar job as Cubs, what they can accomplish as Boy Scouts if the adults get out of their way!

Let your heart talk rather than the paper. That's why the words are easy to come by, getting them on paper is not as important as getting them into the hearts of those around you.... You'll do just fine, everyone here is sending along their prayers, how could it go wrong?

The patrol should be well on their way, sounds like this trek was an eye-opener for them. Let them run with it. The two others need to be reminded, heart is more important than experience. One can always learn experience along the way, having heart is more important. That's where the real power of leadership lies and sounds like these two have the makings for some great things coming their way. Have this boy do his help the PL thingy as APL, but in the mean time, groom him to be TG of the NSP of cross-overs. If he has the makings of a great APL, he is the prime candidate for either SPL or TG!!!! A leader helping leaders? Yep, he's already a step ahead of PL work.

I understand what the councils were doing to help get Venturing off the ground, but I have seen too many train wrecks along the way and what it ends up with is Venturing with a bad taste left in one's mouth. I have always advocated a Venture Patrol within the troop for the older boys, definitely a BSA protocol and policy for troops. Then work on Venturing as a stand-alone program, not an add on, add girls program auxiliary of the troop. When I wear the SM hat and the CA hat at the same time, both units are a long way apart. As a matter of fact, as it stands and as it has stood, my Troop and Crew have always been in two different DISTRICTS within the council. The distance between my current troop and the crew I am starting is 25 miles apart. I run two different programs for the units and I would find very little compatibility between the two that would necessitate the merging of the two for an activity. I was CA for 14 years. I found out this weekend it went defunct a year after I left. The new Crew I am starting is in the town where the old Crew went defunct (I may be able to pick up the old CO in the deal). The first Crew was Civil War reenactors, the second Crew sill be all High Adventure/Outdoors. If one can't adapt, they can't survive. Being tied to a Troop would leave me with the impression adaptability would be at a premium.

Now you know what I'm talking about! Took care of each other? and the adults? They learned that when the adults get out of the way they can find great things inside of themselves! IF THEY TAKE CHARGE? How about WHEN they take charge and the sooner the better. You've been to the mountain top, hopefully everyone on that trek will take what they experienced back to the troop and let it go viral! Someday when you see the scouts after their orientation start doing what these older boys are just now being allowed to do, it is a truly awesome thing to watch. Now forget about the "two steps back and let those 8 boys become a patrol of their own and set the leadership standard for the rest of the troop. "If those guys can do it, so can we!"

To which your family graciously declined their offer and slept outside where the adventure is....?????? I just took my Webelos AOL candidates out on their overnight camping adventure and woke up to a heavy frost. Along with the AOL patch award in a couple of weeks, they will also be getting their Polar Bear Award for camping out at -32oF. First time camping for the majority of the boys. No one complained at all. As a matter of fact I set a new record for campouts. After 45+ years of taking kids camping, I think this weekend was the first time I did not hear one word spoken in anger to anyone and no one complained about anything! The service project part of the weekend, the boys cleaned up the Brownsea area of the council camp for next summer and they rebuilt the firepit, picked up every piece of firewood within 50' of the site and stacked it up neatly and had it all set to go. My ASM and I sat at the picnic table at the site and didn't say a word throughout the hour and a half of the boys working. As I sat there I even contemplated doing WDL again. As a Webelos event, the ASM and I did all the cooking, but had everyone at one time or another stopping by and offering to help out with little chores here and there around the camp kitchen. Well, I"m out of the Twilight Zone and have returned back to real life this morning. By the way, these are the boys that will be the basis for my next year of scouting! I am really looking forward to it!

Do a forum search on Kudu. He's a forum member who has set the tone for many of the boy led, patrol method champions on the forum. Yes, he is one that lived at the extreme, but the ideas he presented make a ton of sense. Any time someone is Channeling Kudu, they are harkening back to the "good old days" of scouting in a very good way. Scouting would be a lot different today if we all had Kudu for a SM. And I mean that in a good way. I use a lot of his work when dealing with my boys. His website is www.inquiry.net I miss his posts a lot! \\http://www.inquiry.net/

As a leader who has done both Troops and Crews, @@Scourge's "situation" sounds more like an adult-led combination of neither a troop nor a crew. The hybrid results is just whatever the SM/CA decides it's going to be. Just because it "works" doesn't mean it's a BSA program. That setup described could also work for any community based youth program or church based youth program.

They may be someone else's kids, but we all know that deep down, they are ours as well. My prayers for you and everyone in your situation will be there for quite some time. My first experience with a death in scouting was my best friend. 50 years later, it's still just like yesterday.

The boys that work with our program will be awarded by our scouts at a ceremony involving just our boys. Boys coming to our troop without AOL will cross over through the various packs as they have always have done.

I would have found it impossible to do the AOL in 5 months like I am doing had it not been for the fact that I had weekly meetings that didn't include such things as B&G, Derby, etc. That's a weekly meeting for 5 months straight and we're still spending time making up a ton of things this weekend.

A whole chapter on Patrol Method Another on really boy led Another on the difference between Leadership and Management Another on how to get over being an adult/parent and start trusting your boys.

Just the cushions! Gotta start slowly with these boys. Just getting up and going to kitchen is a major trek for some of them.

My son was the same way. I have had so many boys over the years like that it's kinda scary. At least I know how to handle it.

Yep! (caught red-handed) and when I talk about the naturalist that does the plant identification, she's a self trained herbologist and Master Gardener. She can paddle circles around me in a kayak, too. The only thing she doesn't do is take me to Alaska, the #1 item on my Bucket List!!!! That's the only reason I married her (at least that's what I keep telling her.) By the way she did work the Reservation rain forests of Southeast Alaska for the US Forestry Service as a helicopter survey crew supervisor, so she knows her way around a hardhat, flannel shirts and hiking boots. She's kinda like Grizzly Adams without the beard and mustache. Don't ever tell her I said that, she does a mean job with a double-bit ax.

Hmmmm, I guess I've never relied on leader guides. I just read the requirement, then try and figure out how to get the boys to do it while having fun. 20 years ago when I was doing the pins for Webelos, the CM at the Pack meeting when the awards were being handed out asked one of my boys what he did to earn the Readyman pin. He said he didn't know. Dead silence, awkward moment, and then I said, Did you do anything for first aid? And immediately the boy started to rattle on about all the first aid stuff he had done until the CM said that was great and invited him to shut up and sit down. The next boy had earned Aquanaut. Same question from the CM, same deer in the headlights look on the boys face and I said, "Did you go swimming?" After he got the boy to quiet down, the CM quit asking my boys questions about their pins. It's really not all that hard to do. Right now my ASM printed up a "packet" for each of the boys with the worksheets, instructions, knot diagrams, LNT, etc. and they were handed out to the boys at the beginning. It had all our emails and phone numbers in case anyone had problems, and those that needed to be done by the parents were flagged and repeatedly asked about each meeting as to their status. As the worksheets are filled out and handed in they are checked off as done. We do have one Webelos handbook for reference. I didn't know there were "leaders guides" I have to admit it is a lot of work for 5 months, but it is doable.

My committee is "trained" to do whatever it takes to help the boys run the best program possible. The get out and bust their butts lining up fund raisers, make sure notices are handled correctly, keep an eye on the advancement, and report any issues they find to the SM to help the boys fix.

@@meyerc13 I'll take you up on that challenge! I am not a registered WDL, but right now as SM I am running a program for Webelos boys wanting to get their AOL. I had 5 months to pull this off. It was offered to 34 boys. 18 showed up the first session and now we are down to 8 still working on their various requirements and electives. In 6 hours from now I'm heading out to cover Camping and Into the Woods. Along with that I am prepared to teach 2 boys Whittling Chip and help 2 boys build bird houses along with a ton of memory work, and catch-up work to make sure these boys have the opportunity to do it right. It's how I take care of my boys! These are 10 year olds and the forecast for the weekend is rain, highs in the low 50's and scattered frost in the area, meaning the temp at night is heading to 32oF Last week we finalized plans for the weekend and the scouts taught the Webelos boys how to set up tents. The requirement explicitly says NO ADULT HELP in setting up the tents. The boys in my group will have an AOL strip on their Boy Scout uniform that they are majorly proud of. They will have earned it. And yes, it is a lot of work to do the new program. The leaders are going to need to step up their game if they want their boys to get the most out of the program. Yes, my boys got the best of everything. The community leader that came in was a state senator, this weekend's speaker for Into the Woods will be taught by a forester who used to work for the US Forestry Service in Alaska. And the sleeping bags that were handed out to the boys were US Army surplus winter bags. Dutch oven cooking is the lesson for Saturday night. Make opportunities, not excuses.

I had a similar situation like this, but it was a whole patrol of boys. The only "punishment" was PL's letter of recommendation from the SM for the boy's Eagle was denied for 6 months while the PL proved such a letter was warranted. He figured it out and nothing more was ever said about the issue. No one in that patrol dared to say a word. It never happened a second time. Without any adult involvement, appropriate apologies were made to the adults individually, to the other patrol that had to clean up the camp without them, and for 6+ months there was not even a HINT of impropriety from any of the scouts. For me the issue was over and done with when the PL stepped down and turned the patrol over to another boy. He stayed with that patrol as a patrol member. I was asked to leave a few months after the 6 months were up, so I have no idea what sort of long term affect the self-imposed punishment lasted. The former PL eventually got his recommendation and the Eagle rank.

I think our OA Lodge is improving. I got a newsletter from them after 15 years of asking to be put on their mailing list. It was addressed to SM - GUEST, so we still have a ways to go.

One needs to work these boys slowly into the backpacking process. I'd start with carrying the sofa cushions to the kitchen every time they need a snack.