Stosh

Unless one is sitting on a stump next to the fire, it doesn't belong in scouting.

Chess is a war game. One can't get any more violent than that. I wonder how long it will be before they ban that in scouting? King and Queen - rulers of the army Bishops - add a religious flavor to justify one's aggression. Knights - duh! the cavalry Rooks - The siege towers Oh, my, how politically incorrect can one get. And with black and white sides, it harbors a definite racial bigotry to the whole thing. We won't even begin a discussion on the caste system of the pawns and the social injustices and inequality that involves

If one were to spend a lot of time discerning all the dynamics as to why certain boys hang out together and others don't, one could spend an enormous amount of time sorting it all out. There are as many different factors that determine friendships that a mere month from now are all off the table. I for one don't want to spend the time worrying about it. I let the boys pick and choose who they want to hang with today and tomorrow I let the boys pick and choose who they want to hang with and the day after that I let the boys pick and choose..... Seriously I have more important things to do than worry about who's getting along with whom today, just to start all over again tomorrow. I do have to admit, I think a lot of the discipline problems that I hear others having with their boys are a result of a number of factors that I don't have to hassle with. Bullying? I saw it in my first troop, none since. I'm not saying it's perfect, but the problems I do have generally work themselves out on their own. Emotionally I work with such things as homesickness, narcissism/ego, and personal issues not related to scouting. ...and this is why I stay out of it when it comes to patrol structure. 6-8 boys and let me know who's the PL. That's all I want to deal with. It things are not working out it's their problem, not mine, and they have all the authority to fix it. Community factors? Personality factors? Relationship factors? Interest factors? Age factors? Maturity factors? Yes, most likely. Do I need to know what they are? Nope. All I need to know what 6-8 boys are hanging out together and who's their PL. If I need to know more than that, they'll tell me.

Those two-man wall tents that summer camp just can't beat the patrol tents we had when I was in scouts. All 8 of us in a large wall tent. We didn't know it but I think we originated the basis for glamping with those things. They were great.

@@qwazse I do have a real A-frame that I use for long term camping. It has no floor so I have a military cot and a Rubbermaid bin for a night stand. Because I bought it for Civil War reenacting, I have the hooks for the top beam to hang clothes and the hooks on the uprights that handle the hanging of lanterns. It doesn't open up as much as a rolled up wall tent, but it affords a bit more privacy without having to drop walls. If a major storm rolls in, I move the cot away from the walls, roll up the carpet piece I use as a floor and toss it in my fold up recliner lawn chair. I've seen a lot of water roll through over the course of many reenactments, but never gotten wet. It's heavy and the ridge pole and uprights are a pain. Otherwise, it's a really nice setup.

Sounds like you do the same thing I do, roll up the sides and doors and basically sleep under a "rain fly" A rain fly isn't an A-frame either...

He can drop out of his patrol for 4-6 months, his buddies hold his spot, do the PL thingy and then go back to his original patrol, too. This is how my troop officers did their shot on the Leadership Corps. They got their shot at POR, did their thing and like playing a season of football came back to their buddies. None of these switches need to be locked in stone. I also emphasize leadership OUTSIDE of the POR requirements. My boys learn how to effectively lead from "the back seat". Major supportive leadership. Like I said, all but one of the rare SPL's in my troop were selected from the patrol APL position. My Eagle scout had to prove to me he understood leadership before I would recommend him for Eagle and he did so without being in a POR job. Instead of a regular meeting tonight, my Webelos boys and one scout went over to the cemetery to place flags. Before getting assigned a row to place flags two different Webelos boys came up to me as I was getting out of my car and said, "Mr. Stosh, what can I do to help?" I don't have boys chomping at the bit for the plumb PL jobs, they are too busy doing leadership in a variety of different ways. Lesson #1 in leadership might be "take care of your boys", Lesson #2 is, "the best leaders are the best followers" and Lesson #3 is "if everyone is a leader, you end up with perfect teamwork." Like I said, it is not uncommon for the PL (highest authority in the troop, top job) to step down for a few months to APL to let his buddy take the reins for 6 months to get his POR while the "former" PL mentors. I had it happen only once, but I had one boy try the TG thingy and stepped out of his patrol to do so. He struggled quite a bit with the new boys, but his home patrol PL mentored him as if he was still in his patrol, and by the time the boy had things under control, the whole home patrol was backing him up. They didn't do it for the NSP boys as much as they did it for their TG buddy who technically was in the Leadership Corps patrol at the time. Those patrol bonds run strong. Never saw anything like that again, but for a moment it was really neat t see it play out.

Yep, don't go to sleep leaning against the side of your tent. Mosquitoes love that. Never wear canvas tennis shoes either, those two little vent holes at the arches is a great place for black flies to get to your skin through your socks. Yes, they can be quite persistent and they will bite a chuck of skin leaving a bleeding wound. The chiggers are nasty, but the ones one has to watch out for are the buffalo gnats. Imagine a mosquito bite welt the size of a quarter that will itch for a month. I'd rather roll in poison ivy before putting up with those buggers.

I had two Eagle Scouts, in my Venturing Crew and big time in OA that had mom maintain their calendar for them so they knew where they had to be.

Riddle me his, Joker. We have found that, by the time most kids hit 7th grade, that which patrol they are in really doesn't matter. We've even had kids leave their initial patrol because they wanted leadership opportunities that they could never get in their original patrol. What are the leadership opportunities that they could never get in their original patrol? My boys all seem to find plenty of opportunity and if not, they can do a special SM project and still stick with their buddies. It doesn't need to be an either/or situation for the boys. I have had a boy "drop out" of his patrol for 4-6 months to take on a troop POR, but they always went back to their original patrols. Their buddies held the spot for them. I have had a PL step down for 6 months so another in his patrol could try out the position. The PL then was the APL who could then mentor him from that supportive position. After he got POR credit, he could then open up his options for doing TG types of leadership role for a while before once again returning to the original patrol of buddies. About the only time I see boys jumping patrols is when there is a personality conflict, and then the other patrols tend to shy away from it because they don't want to deal with it in their patrol. As a last resort, I work with the PL to help resolve the conflict. I would have the SPL do it, but we tend to no have one. I have seen PL's approach other PL's to see if they would be willing to take a boy because of some reason, but generally it gets taken care of on the PL level. If there are dwindling numbers over the years and the patrols drop down below the 6 and there are no spots being held for their buddies in POR, sports, etc. then maybe the patrol might take on a seasoned scout or two from another patrol. Generally by the time the boys get to Venture patrol, their numbers have dropped sufficiently that whole patrols simply merge. I guess I've never had anyone concerned about getting POR opportunities that had to switch patrols permanently.

My first troop was adult led so all the patrols were simply assigned by the SM. End of discussion. My second troop was in a small bedroom community (5,000 pop.) with one school, boys were more apt to choose multiple ages within a year or two of their own having associated with the boys in the neighborhood a bit more simply because there weren't that many kids around. My third troop tends to be from a very large city/urban area (50,000+ with multiple troops to choose from, recruiting from multiple packs, offering a boy-led, patrol method option which is unique to the council. With being a new troop, I'm not seeing much beyond age layering so far with the new troop. If left alone, yes, the neighborhood does have an influence on how the boys pick their patrols, if that is being offered by the adults. The only mixed age patrols I'm familiar with are those ones that were basically assigned by the SM and didn't function as a patrol anyway so it didn't really matter.

There's not much to see in a small town, but what you hear makes up for it. There's some group in town that will eventually step forward if it comes down to losing the scouting program in their town.

I was in the BWCA fishing off the shore the first day trying to rustle up some dinner. I heard what I thought was a jet engine and wondered why airplanes were flying over when I know it was prohibited. Well the black cloud forming off the tree canopy was the source of the noise. A mad dash for the tents, forget the bear bag, they can have what they want, and we were done for the night. The buzzed outside the tent ALL NIGHT LONG. Never had that happen before. Like you said, after sunset they settle down for the night. Not the N. MN guys, they are unbelievable.

That's where the CYA attitude comes in. I may play it beyond the scope of BSA's policies when I'm with my church youth group, but I'm not stupid enough to toss out the safety issues involved. The being sued is one thing, losing the case is quite another. If I do what a prudent person would have done, I can't lose. If I'm negligent, I won't win. I do have control of the issue, I have no control over being sued.

The AOL award is earned in Cub Scouts and is worn on the Cub Scout uniform until they cross over to a Troop, it is one of two patches that carry over to the Scout uniform, the religious knot and the AOL patch that was awarded to the Cub. It is not awarded to a Boy Scout

Yeah, but where does one go that they need to spend that kind of money to get there? and why drag "home" along with you in the process?

There's nothing adventurous about sitting quietly and paying attention to the speaker. I, personally, have always like the ones that are a bit rough around the edges.

No, my umbrella policy protects me against stupid people. I have liability insurance for when I screw up.

Go with what works! I went from a adult led troop to one where I gave the boys free rein. They went from 5 scouts to 28 in 3 years. During that time I watched what they were up to and they tended to stay together as those about the same age except where the group was so small it was a mixed patrol, but only of younger scouts. I've never had a patrol of high school aged scouts mixed with middle school kids. THEY didn't want that. As I have said all along, I DON'T get involved in the patrol selection, but what I have ended up with is NSP/Reg/Venture levels of patrols. They've always worked for me so I don't mess with them.. If anyone complains about the patrol set up, they have no one but themselves to blame. I like it that way. I have bigger fish to fry than worry about patrol configurations. As long as the boys are happy, I'm happy. If they aren't happy, they have the authority to fix it. I simply don't get involved.

Webelos boys cross over, kinda hang together, but half quit anyway because their TG wasn't good, they didn't all go to summer camp as a group, their PL was inexperienced, everything was new and different. Webelos boys cross over, adults split them up into other patrols, but half quit anyway. Only had one friend in the new patrol, if that, was at the bottom of the pecking order, didn't get much attention from the PL who had someone else always teaching skills, always had to bunk with the other kid that got stuck in the patrol with him. It'll be years before anyone will take him seriously, and the other boys are all buddies and the new guys aren't. Yep, the mixed patrols do better at retention than the NSP's oh, wait, was it the other way around, I can't remember. The guys on the forum aren't any help, some say NSP, some say mix them up, and Stosh, well, no one knows what he's up to half the time.

As a group they can be isolated and focused on resolving their issues. 5 troublemakers in one patrol. Won't listen to anyone. A TG is assigned to merely watch them for safety. What are they going to do? If they are 300' from their nearest examples and one lone TG just sitting there, they will eventually look to him to provide something like what the other boys are doing. As soon as they ask that question, the learning can start. Now they will listen. I just don't know what it is, but for some reason I really never have had to deal with situations like this so I'm kind of at a loss to help. I've had my ADD boys, my ADHD boys, my broken family boys, my Asperger's boys, my at-risk boys and for some reason They don't give me trouble. I'm suspicious that what I dish out is not the same servings that most people do. If one has problems, I guess suggesting that they keep doing what they're doing is not going to be very well received.

I guess they missed my presentation on taking care of your boys....

I thought the new program was supposed to be better.....

If it weren't for all the biting bugs and crawlys in this warm climate I live in, I'd consider more open camping sometimes, as Stosh describes I take it you have never visited WI/MN in the summer time? We gotcha beat on biting bugs and crawlys. The mosquitoes up here are as bad as the tropics, have to wear bandana over mouth and nose at dawn/dusk to keep from breathing them in. A poncho and mosquito netting is all one needs. With a walking stick and stake, one doesn't even need the two trees to hang a hammock

Those units appear to be a bit wide for most hiking trails....