Stosh

I have co-ed group of kids that in the past 5 weeks have been rock climbing, hiking and swimming, participated in a a week long service project for 7 different organizations and are planning on a 6 hour kayak outing this next Wednesday. Kinda sad it isn't a BSA group of kids.

Set a new record yesterday, paid $50 for a t-shirt.

Some of the early literature of the BSA would not pass pass muster in today's world. Nicknames were common, and not always PC. Pee Wee Harris was not his real name, and that was one of the more benign ones.

If my boys want a T-shirt they can pick one up at the scout shop or summer camp trading post. They can wear them while lounging in camp. Otherwise it is the scout field uniform. Most boys pick one up the first year at camp and never get a second one.

That may be true if one focuses on the Boy Scout part of the program. Learning for Life, Venturing, STEM CELLS , Cubs (including the new Lions program), and SeaScouts take away resources from the small part being alluded to... which one of the programs are growing and which ones are not. Guess who gets the attention.

Comparing historical scouting to today's scouting is apples and oranges. A small group of boys in the woods doing camping, hiking and cooking verses a coed group in a STEM classroom are worlds apart. So where were BSA's basket of eggs the first half of its history and where are they now? Are we talking the same program? Is what we promote today as scouting anything remotely what Baden-Powel had in mind when he started? Oh, but one must be relevant to today's youth. That's probably true. Most boys couldn't handle the original focus of scouting so a whole different program was developed with dynamics different than the origional. That way it will cater to the adventure inside of every boy around the world. So if not scouting, what is it we are substituting for scouting today and why is not what B-P imagined it to be?

I've only taken a few theological classes in the Catholic setting, but I don't think there's anything in most parishes that would send some kid to Hell for doing service projects on his own. After all I do believe most altar boys are about this age and that serving during the service There is something seriously wrong to assume that people are to suspend their ministry in the world while they take classes on how to do their ministry in the world.

For some, the noise is important. The SM with a wee bit of apnea will need to have someone watch carefully over him in case a scout fresh off of First Aid MB rushes over and starts pounding on his chest. This is a lot more detrimental to the sleeping habits of the SM.

My apologies @@aehptown your post slipped by me. First of all welcome to the forum. A couple of legal issues. Did the pack leadership drop your son as well? With the restraining order against him, he can't be around you. You do not need to change your patterns of activity. I would ask for a clarification from the SE of your council on that one because they can be liable if they allow repeated infractions of the legal restraining order. I'm not a lawyer, but consultation with one would be helpful. It does sound as if the pack is backing him and his tirades, so there's nothing that can be done about that. However, your son is registered in the program and he can attend and should. It sounds as if they asked you to step down, they didn't demand it. If you don't he's in jeopardy of the restraining order when you are around and the child is not supervised. In light of all the legal implications, I can't imagine the pack supporting him unless he's one of the "good old boys". I don't think with his propensity for violence, one would want to really be around him. In that case, transfer to another pack. I doubt that he will want to stay with the original pack once his son is no longer in the program. He cannot take his son to the original pack without supervision anyway. Take this as an opportunity to get away and start anew. I've gone through something similar but not to the extent of such violence. It's just better to walk away and leave the past in the past as best you can. If it won't go away, that's what the legal system is for, use it. @@Casper72 Welcome to the forum as well. Thanks for the response, you are spot on! This is a no-win for everyone involved at this point.

If BSA isn't going to monitor the charter agreements, then it is up to the individual scouts and their families to determine if they are getting the BSA program or not. It's rather unfortunate in a climate of trustworthy and ethical standards that the customer still needs to adhere to the "buyer beware" mentality.

Welcome to the forum!

I've tried a couple of times to try and understand but it would seem that answers offered are of no real value. Having been in the ministry and knowing there is an allowance for the various traditions of Christianity, it is of no real value to compare apples and oranges. So here's the perspective I'm dealing with. Confirmation candidates in my church went through a 3 year program. 6th, 7th and 8th grades. If no one were able to participate in service projects during that time, that would mean no service project for any scouts for the first three years of scouting. They would be 14 years of age before they would be able to complete the TF requirements for a one hour service project. If they were lucky they might be able to pull it off with a major advancement push before they start the 6th grade or if they got their AOL prior and were able to get a few months in with a 10 year old cross-over. Now if in your particular brand of Christianity has a 6 month confirmation program, it's probably going to have little or no affect on scout advancement, But if the program is 3 years long, it'll really mess with the scout. As long as information on the duration of the program is withheld, it is safe to assume that scouts in that unit if they wish to advance need considering other units with more advancement helpful policies. By the way, those who are 13-14+ are not confirmed, they are adult baptized. after a very brief orientation process. In my "confirmation" class back in the 1960's 2 of the kids in class were baptized and the rest of us were confirmed. And as a tag along note on this whole discussion, tomorrow at 8:00 am I am heading out with our junior high students, all confirmation candidates for a 5 day mission/servant leadership activity. In my situation, service projects are a vital part of the confirmation process of putting one's faith into action, not just reading about it in a book to be checked out after the program is over. It kinda flabbergasts me that a church would ban such activity in the developmental program of their respective faith education.

Aaaand what's wrong with BSA popcorn? A Scout is Trustworthy! I'm sure it was just a typo, right @@Hedgehog BSA? We've got boxes to sell...light, kettle, extra butter.

I have no problem restricting membership by certain organizational CO's. Just make it clear at the onset of the the boy's participation that he's not welcomed. That should take care of that problem of miscommunication on down the road. I go through this all the time. The Mrs. is a member of two different ladies' kayak groups. They go out a lot. But if I say I want to go on a Saturday morning, she tells the ladies she isn't going to be going with them. They have a closed group, they understand, the Mrs. would rather go kayaking with a co-ed group whenever I want to go and so the ladies' group will always come up one short for their activity because of their decision. I've never felt it necessary to get all political due to the discrimination, it's just that this is their way of doing things and the Mrs. and I work around it.

This is what got me off track. How many years is one a confirmation candidate? Just the one? My confirmation ran 3 years, 6th, 7th and 8th grades. That meant that under those circumstances, one would need to be in high school to progress beyond the Scout Rank.

My boys chose to go to a mess hall camp with little cabins. Wait 'til they realize what they are doing does not get 5 days of camping by sleeping in a cabin, no matter how small it may be. Tents will be available for those that wish to get camping days credit..... and stoves and dutch ovens for cooking credit....

They start at 6th grade, then 7th, then at the end of 8th they get Confirmed. That means they have to wait until they are old enough to get into Venturing to get Tenderfoot. How is that three years a "few month's" wait? I'm not much for this S->FC in 1 year push, but waiting until they are confirmed before they do a service project? Doesn't sound much like any BSA unit I've ever come in contact with. I'm thinking it is a tad out of bounds from the whole advancement dynamic. Either this unit is beyond rogue or I'm reading this all wrong. I hope I'm reading it all wrong. By the way, Pope John XXIII fixed the last of the 95 Thesis.

Or holding them back from advancement when they aren't even a part of the church's membership. They'd have boys that were never able to advance beyond the Scout Rank only because they would be forbidden to do a 1 hour service project. This is not adding or subtracting from the requirements, it is simply making all the advancement process null and void.

Priorities.... I closed out my working years before retirement as an administrative assistant. I have a Master's Degree I hadn't used for 35 years.. Best working years of my career. My second major job had me at a blood pressure of 250/125. That didn't last very long either. Keep your laptop/tablet in the car. Fire it up when needed and then put it back in the car. If one is working hard finding a job, the extra little bit of walking isn't a big deal. I've taken a laptop to camp, found it to be a nuance trying to keep it charged, same for the cell phone. I used to take it along to download my camera of pictures at the end of the day when cameras had limited storage capacity. Fire it up, down load and shut down. I managed to keep it going for the whole week. Camera had AA batteries so that wasn't a problem. I just figured the car trunk as the safest, but it could get hot in the summer sun.

10% of religious people come from families with no religious background. That's 1 out of every 10 boys that are "unchurched"

Maybe one can just leave it at home and not worry about it. I go into the woods to get away from such emotional teddy bear blankets.

What about service project hours that are required for the lower ranks? Are all advancement postponed until after confirmation? I prefer Son-shine myself.

As a minister I was sure that there was a requirement that all scouts had to be confirmed before they could start their Eagle project. I got more Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and Atheist scouts to Eagle than most units in the council..

Earning a rank is far different than receiving an award. A degree and an honorary degree are not the same. One is earned and one is awarded. Eagle is EARNED.

It's the same in other professions. Long tenures make it very difficult for someone to follow. A young man came out seminary and started and served his entire career in a church in California. The next pastor was there for 2 years and left. The next pastor came and served until he was 75. That two year pastor was frequently talked about and the consensus was how shabbily they had treated him. There are not that many churches out there that can say that in their 100 years of existence they have only had 4 pastors, one of which only was there for 2 years. It's not so much a testimony of any one of the tenured leaders, it's a testament of how well a group can survive a beloved leader. Some simply can't do it.