Stosh

While we no longer have Hell's Angels in our area we still do have cycle clubs. They dress the leather, they're older guys, but the one I'm most familiar with are the recovering alcoholic, Christian, Veteran bikers. Nice bunch of guys, but if you came across them in a dark alley some night it would spike your blood pressure. Never judge a book by it's cover and I guess that would apply to the Hooter's women as well.

But Hooters was not staffing the camp they were sponsoring it and providing an opportunity for their employees to volunteer to help with the program they sponsored.

The adults that feel it is their responsibility to involve themselves in the affairs of the troop deserve everything they get.

I was trying to make the point that what one group says is "appropriate" another group says just the opposite. I know the terminology is not correct on the church issue, but I use it because I am a Christian and any place I find God in a place of worship I call it church. So if I refer to a Jewish synagogue as a church either I am giving reference to a house of God or it's a lot easier to spell church than synagogue. House of God would probably work for all faiths, too. Just didn't think of it when I posted. No slight was intended. My silent mentor was a Jewish fella who sang with the Men's Choir of the local Methodist church. He didn't mind singing the occasional Christian hymn and the other fellas didn't mind a Jewish psalm on occasion too. The men did have a fun tradition at Easter to hand out canned hams to all the members of the choir. Great flourish was taken when the time cake to present the Jewish member his ham. He always graciously with a smile accepted it. Eventually the cost got prohibitive and they decided not to do the hams and the Jewish fella was a bit upset. My dad asked him what was the matter. He said every year he would pick out some needy family in the community and give them his ham. He said he would have to buy one this year. That story stuck with me to this day. One can be assured that no Jewish family was ever selected. My one example of great Christian charity was taught to me by this gentleman who's name I never knew.

The original news article I read said they were "trained". I assumed that meant at the minimum YPT. I'm assuming, the article did not say what the training was. Notice that the only people in the photo wearing jackets were the Hooters gals. Everyone else wore t-shirts or polos. From the photo no one would even notice the three were from Hooters.

By the way, how many WB Owls do we have in the audience?

One of the problems with the adults getting in and messing with things it means they get to wallow in the glory when it works and they get the heat when it doesn't. These are the things the boys are supposed to be learning, not the adults. Every time my boys ask if they can do a certain activity and it is not prohibited by BSA, I automatically say "YES". At least they are planning on doing something. So they plan this all out and have a great time, the boy who made the suggestion is a hero. Next time a new idea comes along it might fall flat on its face. Then the poor kid that suggested it is the villain, but he has learned a valuable lesson, too. No where in this formula is there any room for adult intervention and win or lose the adult will always look good. I learned a long time ago that when things go South, one doesn't want to be caught holding the bag. So it's either going to be either the SM or Little Johnny who's going to take the heat for the ballroom dancing lessons that none of the boys wanted to go to. I vote for Little Johnny.

@@qwazse The sarcasm was meant to point out the total hypocrisy of the situation. Yet seriously, somewhere in the literature it also talks about judge not, lest ye be judged. Who's to say that instead of demonizing these women or the situation these women find themselves in, one could also possibly help some of these young gals see what benefit there is to doing something good for young boys, having fun with potentially what could be their children some day, and that life can be different than the present track they are on. The judgmentalism of the parent that complained only emphasized her need to make a scene in front of the world. Well, while she's judging others, others are judging her. @@blw2, one also has to be careful of the Playboy mudflaps on those trucks, too.

@@blw2 We're pretty much on the same page, but with all the emphasis on rank advancement as the primary focus of Boy Scouts today, one feels justified in turning it into a job interview inquisition. So one didn't learn the double half hitch. Big deal, some rainy Friday night and it's dark and your patrol is putting up the dining fly, he's going to finally figure why the double half hitch is important. First wind storm he's going to realize the importance of the taunt line. First trip to BWCA or Philmont will convince him that compass and map aren't just something one plays with back home at a meeting. And having seen it many times in my life, standing there watching a loved one die of a heart attack is not the time to realize that C.P.R. is not just a check box and initials in one's long lost ScoutBook. The best example I have is my young scouts put up their summer camp tents and relied on the pieces of wood with two holes in them to tighten up their wall tents and dining flies. Second night out, big thunderstorm rolls through, tents went down all over the place, gear got wet, boys looked like drowned rats the next morning. They came over to my area and asked for help. They told me ALL the tents and flies had gone down in the storm. I corrected them when I pointed out the adult tents and flies were up and doing their job. All the gear was nice and dry. I then proceeded to show them all the double half hitches and taunt lines instead of the stupid wooden blocks. I then offered to come over and teach the boys how to tie the two knots. The acting SPL, smiled and said, he'd handle it. Before any of the tents went back up there was an extensive training program on knots in each patrol by the SPL and PL's. Didn't need to worry about any check boxes, BOR dynamics or Scout proficiency. Mother Nature took care of everything. Failure is the best teacher on the planet! This stuff doesn't need to be over thought. Time will correct their shortcomings.

Not according to my Methodist grandparents.... The point being, what is immoral to one is not to the next guy, thus the whole LGBT issue with BSA and the Scout Oath. Obviously the Bible, the Torah, and the Koran all say different things, just like my grandparents.

A) High school cheerleaders, Pom Pom Squads B) Beauty Padeants C) Vollyball tournaments D) Madison Avenue sales of just about anything E) TV show characters F) Newscaster personality G) Hollywood Red Carpets H) 95% of the ads on the Internet I) Video games J) Hooters waitresses K) Movies L) Bolero and Bo M) Bay Watch N) All of the above These are the answers, so here's the question: Which best describes the American social culture of denigrating women under the guise of sexuality?

Never heard of multiple scouts in a BOR at the same time. Obviously the time of the board members is more important than the boys. In order to facilitate this process, why not have 1 trained MC and 2 parents for each scout. They could do 3-4 of them all at the same time and each boy gets his own POR. This is simple math, not rocket science.

This is where I got a small success this spring with my Webelos cross-over boys. First of all the Cub program is leader trained differently than Boy program trained. The whole dynamic of how they work is worlds apart in their mission and goals. I decided this spring to do what I did for my Wood Badge ticket 25 years ago. I went back and ran the Webelos program using Boy program dynamics. Interestingly, I found that the new Webelos program is far more Boy program than the old Webelos program. The old pins could be torqued into Scout and Tenderfoot requirements if the leader was aware of both programs. Most Webelos leaders were not at the time. They focused on the pins, not the future. The new program with their adventure units flat out duplicate much of the Scout and Tenderfoot requirements. This made the transition into the Boy program far easier than before. Well we have 3 packs and 3 troops in our immediate area. I sent out an invitation to the Webelos leaders of the three packs inviting them to send their boys over to my program where I would teach/lead the AOL portion of the Webelos program, similar to what I did 25 years ago. (Back then I was the Webelos leader for the single feeder pack for the troop.) When the dust settled I had gained 8 of the new Webelos boys. One troop picked up 1 boy and the other troop picked up maybe 2. All the rest of the 34 Webelos scouts dropped out of the program and did not move on to Boy Scouts. The whole process was adult-led as it would be in a Webelos/Cub program, but I instilled the patrol method with boys leading at every opportunity that came along. My two Boy Scout remnants that were keeping the troop going along with the 8 new boys have basically turned our troop into 2 new scout patrols, but there's one major difference. These boys have already had 6 months heavy orientation to the boy led, patrol method program of Boy Scouts because their AOL year was taught by a Boy Scout trained leader, not a Webelos/Cub trained leader. Yes, there's the temptation to have the two patrols functioning as Webelos III, but they were functioning quite well as Boy Scouts while still in the Webelos program. That would require a concerted effort to wind the clock back to be a Webelos III "patrol". The two older boys will be taking 5 MB's at summer camp, all the rest of the boys will be in the S->FC program and 2 MB's. As excited as the 8 new boys are, I'm expecting some of them to progress beyond the older boys in rank before the year is out. The nice thing about it is, the new boys have no idea what an adult led program is all about at this point...and I have no intention of telling them what it is either. The Webelos AOL units were designed to demonstrate the boy led program of Boy Scouts while the boys were still in Cub Scouts. This is why the transition was exciting for the boys and they didn't want to drop out after AOL when things were just getting interesting.

@@meyerc13 It must be a Wisconsin thingy. I don't have a problem with any of it and I grew up in a German community where beer was as much a drink as was Coke or Pepsi. It just wasn't a big deal. Every small town has it's beer tent in their annual celebration. Signs with beer sponsors are a normal part of every day life. It's just not something people around here get all that worked up about and we tend to be very conservative/rural in nature. If I am out socializing for any occasion I am the designated driver. I'm not a tea-totter by any means, I enjoy my cold beer after mowing the lawn on a hot day, but It doesn't even register in my everyday life as being good or bad. It's just there. Every street corner seems to have it's bar and surprisingly, the Hooters closed its doors after a few years' run. The reaction in town was, bars come and go all the time. No big deal.

Our Chucky Cheese does as well. Not many fights, though.

Failure is the cornerstone of education. How can a good leader help others when they fail when he has never failed himself?

Having a formal format/training for BOR's might be a bit overkill. I think the intent of the process is to have a "chat" with the boy, congratulate him on his accomplishment, listen to his concerns and celebrate with him his future success in scouting. What I hear on the forum as to how many of these BOR's are run, it is no wonder to me why the adults are having problems with it. Advancement is a huge process in the BSA, the BOR is a small part of it marking the milestones in the boy's scouting career. Nothing more, nothing less. He didn't earn the rank but is at the BOR? Someone screwed up along the way. Fix it and then come back when we have something to be excited about. i.e. finished the rank and looking forward to the next. Nothing takes the steam out of that faster than some adults not functioning properly along the way, i.e. the boys were not sufficiently trained, not signed off improperly, etc.

Our Pizza Hut sells beer.

They're also making money to feed themselves and their families, or maybe working their way through higher education. When the boss says, go play with the Cub Scouts, one goes and plays with the Cub Scouts. It's part of being a team player on the job.

Every ECOH I've attended as a SM I have gone as a guest.

Every camp I've attended teach S->FC but sign off on nothing. The reports the camp give at the end of the week indicate the training the boy got, but the testing and signing off is NOT done by the camp staff. Basically all it means is Little Johnny was present when the training was held.

Theoretically you might be correct, but in actuality that's not the way Cub Scouts works. The Cub program runs from kindergarten through 5th grade. Pack meetings all have the boys together. It's the same for elementary school 6th graders (5th with AOL) hanging out with seniors in High School. 13 years in those two programs.

@@BamBam is correct, the SM wasn't doing his/her job. He's responsible for the boys and their advancement. If they are not following the procedure correctly, it needs to be corrected long before it gets to the BOR. How does one get all the way to FC without someone noticing that mom is still in Cub Scout mode? Not the kid's fault!

Each one of these "things" is derived from the moral background of the listener. To some innuendos mean nothing....if you know what I mean. For others it doesn't make any difference, if they are selling alcohol, they are selling alcohol. It's just a matter of one's background Really, where I'm from, the two go together as a 7-course meal, a six-pack and pizza.

So does our local pizza joint that charters a Cub Pack.