Stosh

Time out! "A kids skills or lack thereof can not be retested." Where does it say that? I retest my kids ALL THE TIME. I don't retest for advancement, but if they hold the rank they had better know their stuff. If not I retest until they do it right. All your tents went down in the T-storm that went through last night? Double half hitches and taunt lines slipped or came undone? No? What knots did you tie? ..... No I won't come over and help set up your tents, I will teach knots if you want otherwise, it's up to you to take care of your boys. I have struggled with new boys now for the past 2 years. No older scouts. Teaching is still paramount in the program and unfortunately I have to do it. But I only teach it once. Then it's up to the boys to teach the next generation of scouts. If you don't know it, no, I won't teach it, but I will suggest to the boys in the NSP that maybe they need a new PL if the PL isn't qualified to teach and lead. It's kinda harsh, but my boys eventually really know their stuff.

The exclusive vs. inclusive dynamics are a sensitive area that Boy Scouts should not be involved with. Any auxiliary program that isn't designed to help the whole is not something I want any part of. Us and them have no place in the BSA. One sees a bit of it with the OA and WB. Secrecy is strictly forbidden in Scouting for good reasons.

Primitive man used stones as weapons. I would think national would have banned the practice by now, or at least have an aquatic rangemaster qualification process in place.

Instead of putting all their energy into a generic WB program, why not prop up the position specific positions and take them to a higher level. WB for a Lion DL is not going to be the same as for a SM/ASM. To design a program to deal with something as far fetched as that is really dumb. You are correct. The push for WB has dumbed it down to the point where it is more of a status symbol than an actual learning event,.

It's ETR the Greek letter P is pronounced as an R or Arrrgh if you are a Greek pirate.

Hmmmm.... #6 - To be considered active the scout must attend 60% of all activities. What about the boy whose father wants him in the program and mom doesn't, she lives an hour away. Custody agreement says 50/50 on the boy's time. Here's a boy who will never make Eagle and is being punished because of the courts, his parents, and circumstances beyond his control. Not a problem, we'll make an exception and the slippery slope begins and the #6 by-law becomes useless and everyone is bent out of shape. Welcome to the need for stupid rules. National does not have the total market on bad rules......

Officer, it came down and was just outside my windows....If it wasn't trying to invade my privacy, what other alternatives might there have been?

My Venturing Crew "needed" by-laws. So they sat down and hammered them out over the course of 5-6 meetings while I drank coffee and daydreamed. They got them all written, had printed copies made for everyone and they never mentioned them again in the 13 years I was crew adviser. They are a total waste of time for those who live by the Scout Oath and Promise.

Sorry @ they allowed me only one green arrow! If one needs a "business model" to follow, here's the key: The patrol members are the customer. The PL is the salesman. If he provides a good quality product for the customer, they will come back over and over again until the product become poor quality or the salesman doesn't want to sell anymore. Then they will go off and find another salesman to "follow". As TampaTurtle says, take care of the customer and they will take care of you.

With all these people aimlessly wandering around with blood shot eyes, making no social contact with anyone in their way, how are we "normal" people going to know when the Zombie Apocalypse comes for real?

Yep, the more the adults get involved in the decisions, the more they make themselves a target for grief. Get the books give it to the boys and if things go to hell in a basket, you don't get caught holding the bag.

Ditto on the welcome @@RMcKenzie

Sorry I can't help. Don't have by laws and don't define active. If they show up when they are not in their sports season, it's good enough for me. PL's usually deal with this issue like they do all the other advancement issues.

A few times I have come across a car/deer accident, even ones where I've hit the deer. If the deer is obviously mortally wounded, I will put it down ASAP to minimize it's suffering. To date, no law enforcement officer has ever charged me with shooting deer out of season.

Stosh, on 14 Jul 2016 - 12:30 PM, said: Yah, I'm a licensed pilot, eh? Sure there are some restricted areas. No, there is no required minimum altitude especially in remote areas. I can feel free to buzz a field of crops to my heart's content (and lots of folks do to spray their crops). Below 700 feet is uncontrolled airspace. Which is fine and dandy until someone buzzes the field because they are curious as to what the bunch of boys are doing huddled in the field. What would one of those drones do to the average prop? Stosh, on 14 Jul 2016 - 12:30 PM, said: Yah, it is. Quadcopter drones aren't possible without high speed computing and sensing technology and microcontrollers. It's the addition of the computer-assist that drastically improves da safety and "flyability" for the average person. And it's the addition of small CCD cameras that have made drones interestin' to the general public. RC planes have gone high tech with jet engines. Takes a highly skilled flier to keep it under control. Most drone operators are extremely unskilled and the improvements in technology only makes up for a certain amount of skill. One doesn't have to concentrate as much with a semi-self flying unit. Lack of concentration is always a recipe for problems. Stosh, on 14 Jul 2016 - 12:30 PM, said: Yah, I do that, too, eh? All of us have multiple tales to tell of crashin' our model aircraft, especially rotorcraft. Dang model helicopters are a pain to fly, and da hobby has had some spectacular fatalities with 'em. RC model aircraft are heavier, faster moving, and much more hazardous. Those are also remote controlled , eh? So yeh have to see 'em to control 'em. Drones are onboard controlled by da processors on the aircraft which keep it under control and can be programmed to keep it out of certain airspace (though that's not really an issue 99.9% of the time). They're also lighter weight, frangible, and slower moving. Safer all-around, but definitely new technology. Yes the drones tend to be light weight, but the break off point is 55#'s . Let me see 2 pints to a quart, 4 quarts to a gallon 8#'s times 5 gallons equals 40#'s that means one can have 15# more than a 5 gallon water can come crashing down out of the sky and still be all legal and nice. You know as well as I do, a small balsa wood .049 isn't going to be enough after a while..... There's always the next step. Kinda like kayaking the local lake. Next it's gotta be the river, then the rapids, then the falls. Stosh, on 14 Jul 2016 - 12:42 PM, said: Yeh do realize that exactly the same argument can be made about kids goin' Scouting, right? Scoutin' fatalities don't happen very often, but the more kids join Scoutin' and go camping, the greater the number of deaths and personal injuries can occur! I still vote for liberty. Beavah And a quality program of education and safety will keep the numbers down. Letting them loose in the woods on their own is the same thing as heading down to the hobby shop, buying a drone and heading out with one's buddies to the nearest park. Not quite a valid argument. All I'm saying is if BSA is going to promote and allow this, they better bone up on education and hands on training to back it up. I've always been surprised there is Rocketry MB, but no RC Aircraft MB. I wonder what the rationale behind that is.

Unfortunately @@Gerred this is the definition behind the "One Minute Manager" on getting tasks accomplished. This may work when there is a task to be accomplished, but when do people follow a leader when there isn't a task to do? How do they hold loyalty to a person when the work is done? This is the key. Whereas it is one thing for the "leader" to trust the follower to do the job, when the job is done what happens to the trust and loyalty at that point? It's gone. The whole idea behind the difference between leadership and management is a person will trust, stay loyal and hang around the leader, not because of the task, but because the followers trust the leader! The dynamic that was proposed in your post had it the other way around. If a leader takes care of his people, they know that, they eventually trust that and they will stay with the leader as long as that leader continues to take care of them. It's kinda like the rude awakening for the 18 year old when they are kicked out of the nest and there's no one there that's going to take care of them like mom and dad did for those 18 years. Where do they gravitate to? It begins their search for a leader or they figure it out and become a leader. A guy can get married so that his new wife will take care of him or he can take on a wife and family to take care of and have them follow him. In this day and age of divorce, the break down of both parties wanting to be taken care of an neither wanting or even knowing how to lead is a general problem in our society today.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-177139/Teenager-killed-hit-model-plane.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/07/nyregion/flying-model-aircraft-comes-under-scrutiny-after-fatal-accident-in-brooklyn-park.html?_r=0 http://gizmodo.com/a-swiss-man-was-killed-by-his-remote-controlled-helicop-777233761 It doesn't happen very often, but the more the number of RC units go into the air, the higher the ratio of potential death and injury can occur.

One also has to take into consideration the flight of aircraft is done by a occupant pilot who is trained and licensed. Even though they can fly over certain terrain, it is forbidden in some areas, i.e. military bases, Washington DC, and BWCA just to name a couple. They must also maintain a MINIMUM flight so that if there is a problem they have time to react and set their aircraft down in a non-populated area if possible. So now we have drones. It's not new technology. Radio Controlled aircraft have been around for many years. The only difference is it's now a fad and everyone is jumping on the bandwagon. With the influx of pilotless aircraft, the rules are now more evident. I don't know how many of these where in existence 15 years ago before the gotta-have-a-drone phenomena came along, but I it makes sense to have the ground personnel be able to see the aircraft, be able to keep it under control, keep it out of piloted aircraft air space, etc. Therefore I don't think it's any modern knee-jerk reaction to the younger generation, it's just a reiteration of what's been on the books for a long time and as more and more people get into flying RC aircraft, a reminder of the rules is in order. I have a number of friends who are RC hobbyists and fully realize it's not an issue of "modern technology". They've been flying both rotary winged and fixed wing pilotless aircraft for many years. It's a bit like 10 years ago, one would have been looked at askance if they had a kayak on their car instead of a canoe. But now that the kayak rage is in full swing, canoes have almost all disappeared except at the rental outlets. Kayaks might be the hot-new technology that has replaced the canoe, but the Inuit seal hunter will just smile and ignore the whole thing. Don't think for a moment that pilotless remote controlled aircraft is a new technology. It just isn't so.

I figured you'd like that one!

Welcome! Always good to have a fresh set of eyes on this forum.

They only need to pass the swimmer test, they don't need the MB.

Just from listening to the comments, it sounds a bit like your son needs measurable successes to find satisfaction with the situation. It is as if it is okay only if it can be proven to be such by getting something done, either a virtual award or rank advancement. It is how the boy is measuring his self worth. Now one disagree with him and say he's worth something on his own, but he doesn't see it because it is not measurable, i.e. tangible. You are correct when you say learning is its own reward, but he's not buying it. Besides the advancement, what other ways might he be able to measure different successes? Make any new friends today? Meet someone interesting? I know you like knots, here's a book on them, might find some of them interesting. I have run into boys over the years that needed the A's and B's to be able to visualize success, that it wasn't internal to their thinking. It just takes time to find avenues that will open up that process. For example if he is the QM for his patrol, how does HE measure success in the job? Internal definitions rather than relying on others to furnish the definitions. Once he figures out that if he sets goals higher than others and the accomplishes them, he no longer will need to rely on others to tell him he's valuable to the group.

That has to count for something. You bail and all your buddies in the patrol suffer. Works for me. I'm sure after missing a couple of events like this, either the slacker wises up or he's looking for a new patrol. Don't make a commitment you don't intend to keep.

As a naturalist who favors the sounds of nature and the silent sports, having to listen to the incessant whine of a drone is not conducive to a LNT lesson and falls short in the category of courtesy towards ones privacy. If ever the drones become part of the Shotgun MB, I'll be the first to sign up as a counselor.