Stosh

My experience was quite similar to this in that I as SM when back to work with the Webelos getting them ready maybe join my troop. I too, found the biggest "fun" thing they did was form up two patrols. Names, patches, flags, the whole bit as part of their AOL requirements. Because they didn't have as many cross over into Boy Scouts they needed to scale back to one patrol, but they didn't mind, they got the fun of reorganizing, picking a name, getting patches all over again. We don't have the option of older boys so we ran amuck at summer camp where the patrol flag took the back-seat to the troop flag. The APL carried the patrol flag and the PL carried the troop flag. Being a small troop does have it's disadvantages with the patrol method concept. But even after the two patrols merged, they do remember which of the two original patrols they were in and tend to buddy up according to that demarcation. It did have an impact on them pretty heavy at the time. We now have the Raven Patrol, but we have the Cobra Ravens and the Panther Ravens, kinda like the kid who gets stuck with the hyphenated last name he needs to learn to spell in kindergarten.

"By divine Providence it has come about that various churches, established in various places by the apostles and their successors, have in the course of time coalesced into several groups, organically united, which, preserving the unity of faith and the unique divine constitution of the universal Church, enjoy their own discipline, their own liturgical usage, and their own theological and spiritual heritage. Some of these churches, notably the ancient patriarchal churches, as parent-stocks of the Faith, so to speak, have begotten others as daughter churches, with which they are connected down to our own time by a close bond of charity in their sacramental life and in their mutual respect for their rights and duties.(37*) This variety of local churches with one common aspiration is splendid evidence of the catholicity of the undivided Church. In like manner the Episcopal bodies of today are in a position to render a manifold and fruitful assistance, so that this collegiate feeling may be put into practical application." One doesn't need to discuss it with me. It has been said by many theologians that Pope John XXII finished what Martin Luther started. Knowing I am Lutheran and Lutheran clergy besides, has never been questioned and I have never been turned away by any priest during the Sacrament of Holy Communion. The world changed, but some people didn't.

One would find it rather strange that they pray to the same God, read from the same sacred scriptures and teach the same message would be considered two different religions. Do all lawyers adhere to the same code of US law? How about state law, can a lawyer practice in any state they want? Does it mean that just because one is able to practice in Utah, that means they aren't a lawyer when they vacation in Florida? Does an international lawyer mean they can practice law in Timbuktu? Now the lawyers all know US law, so they are lawyers, but states differ due tradition, legislation, court rulings, etc. so they are restricted. Does that somehow invalidate the law degree in Ohio just because one practices in Mississippi? Or a more precise analogy for this discussion would be, just because one practices law in New York they are the only true lawyers in the US. Just as the law profession is broken down by state legislative code, doesn't change the fact that the person is a lawyer. Just because Christianity is broken down into denominations by traditional, historical and cultural difference does not mean they are a different religion. The US law applies throughout the US jurisdiction, but one still can't practice wherever they want. Hmmm, this applies to lawyers, doctors, teachers, clergy, etc. Some are state limitations, some are traditional and cultural limitations. Is a MD better than a DO? a psychciatrist or DDS? Seems their training overlap quite a bit, who's the one worthy of the Dr. in front of their name? It is easy to see where the "I'm the only true (doctor, Christian, teacher, lawyer) and all the rest are "something else" Pretty much sums up the definition of Bigotry when that happens.

The Pope has made it quite clear that Catholicism is not a bigoted religion and I have stated it as such. Not everyone, however, who adheres to the Catholic faith as presented by the Papal See,see it the same way and somehow think they speak for all Catholics. But they don't. As a professional theologian who has studied such for many years, I probably know more about the Catholic dogma than most lay Catholics. Having attended classes in a Catholic seminary kinda leaves an impression of what's going on with the teachings. A careful and prayerful review of 1 Corinthians 12:15ff might help one understand the issue better. Christian theologians of the Catholic denomination are not saying anything different than any other mainline Protestant theologians. The only real differences are in terms of tradition, not theology. The laity had a major eye opener when I was a kid. Vatican II dropped the Latin Mass and put it into the language of the people, just like Luther did many generations earlier. The surprise came when the Catholics realize the words in their liturgy were the same as the Lutherans and the Orthodox, and the Anglican, and the Episcopals..... Pope John XXIII who I believe was the greatest influence on Christianity in the 20th Century, did nothing more than let his people know they weren't the only Christians in the Body of Christ. A lot of folks resented that. 50 years later, most of them have gotten over it. Not all, but most.

I guess I don't want my boys to develop as live-action helpers. I want them to be leaders. I stopped by a camp this past week at summer camp because the camp gateway had the flags backwards. I visited with the adult leaders of the camp about it. The SM wasn't able to come to the camp until later in the week. One of the leaders called over one the the boys who had left the trailer door opened and started hassling him. Then he called over the SPL and asked "How many?" and the SPL said, "25". This meant that the boy was to do 25 push ups before closing the trailer door. I gently reminded him this was not an acceptable BSA policy practice, and the leader said, their SM was former military and they were merely maintaining the troops "tradition". They started counting as the boy did his push ups and I counted random numbers until no one knew the count and the boy just went over and closed the door to the trailer. My welcome was wore out so I moved on. It was good to see that the SPL was maintaining a great boy-led program in that troop. It's a great tradition to have.

Just because the BSA offers MB's doesn't mean they have qualified counselors. This is why summer camp MB's are pretty lame in the first place. They are CIT lead with a rubber stamp of the camp placed on the practice.

There are twelve classical world religions—those religions most often included in history of world religion surveys and studied in world religions classes: Baha'i, Buddhism, Christianity, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Shinto, Sikhism, Taoism, and Zoroastrianism. According to some estimates, there are roughly 4,200 religions in the world. The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system, but religion differs from private belief in that it has a public aspect. Christianity [kris-chee-an-i-tee] Examples Word Origin noun, plural Christianities. 1. the Christian religion, including the Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox churches. 2. Christian beliefs or practices; Christian quality or character: Christianity mixed with pagan elements; the Christianity of Augustine's thought. 3. a particular Christian religious system: She followed fundamentalist Christianity. 4. the state of being a Christian. 5. Christendom. 6. conformity to the Christian religion or to its beliefs or practices. Let's play a word game so that we can properly define who's in and who's out of the game. http://undergod.procon.org/view.background-resource.php?resourceID=87 This is how Christian theologians deal with the issue. Christianity is not made up of many religions, it is one religion with multiple denominations. To say that two people do not share the same Christian theology is to say one is non-Christian. It's the verbiage used by those who think others don't have the true theology and they do. The practice is called bigotry by definition.

Sorry, but Christianity is a religion with different sub groups. To say Catholics and Protestants are two different religions means that one of them can't be Christian. If one is Catholic then the Protestants aren't Christian, but if one is Protestant the argument goes the other way. For many years, this kind of bigotry has killed a lot of people and behold, the practice still goes on today. The American colonists made a special effort in this argument and said there would be no state religion so that everyone would be free to practice whatever religion they wish. Some churches are separated because of political differences, but to say they are separated by theological differences means that they aren't Christian. And "them's fighin' words", and the bigotry, hatred, and killing continues. For those who were around "back then". JFK was the first Catholic president of the US and there was a lot of talk about the Pope going to dictate US political policy and a bunch of other garbage. So it is obvious we haven't progressed much in the past 50 years because the fight continues. "Irish need not apply" wasn't because they were Irish, it was because they were Catholic. The religious bigotry "stuff" that floats around today isn't as obvious as the racial bigotry "stuff" that floats around because the racists make more of an issue of it. As time progresses, the increase in Christian persecution will increase and it really won't make a bit of difference whether one is Catholic or Protestant, because to the world "they" are all wrapped up under the category of Christian. People today don't care if they are Sunni or Shiite, they are all Muslims. Is anyone worried whether they are Orthodox or Reformed? Nope, they are Jews in the eyes of the world. Now the Muslims and Jews and Christians can play their petty bigotry games among themselves but it really doesn't matter in the long run. So in light of all that we place the burden of Chaplain's Aide on our boys and expect them to sort it all out. Good luck with that.

Feel free to cite where I accused anyone of bigotry. By definition to say that certain snowflakes although different are not really snow is bigotry. By definition to say that certain skin colors although different are not really human is bigotry. By definition to say that certain denominations although different are not really Christian is bigotry. One does not need to accuse anyone of bigotry, by definition people accuse themselves.

Sounds good! I'll stick with main stream Christianity.

"With all due respect, Mr. blw2, this is our troop and we want to run it. We elected PL's to run the patrols, we have an SPL that is going to coordinate the troop officers to help them, and I'm in the NSP and as a PL I have the same rights to offer up options for my boys as the Venture patrol PL does." STARE FROM THE SM, but no comment. "Okay then, I'll go back to my patrol and we'll wait for some adult to tell us what to do next."

My council camp use to do that. They were called CampMasters and had their own area of the camp where the coffee pot was always on for the leaders. One could spend as much time as they wished in this area. It consisted of older experienced scouters and scouters beyond the two-deep that their unit required. It was a free week for these volunteers and they could put in as many weeks during the summer they wanted. They taught the T-FC instruction to the boys, held seminars, did the camp inspections, etc. They dropped the program a number of years back.

I would have said, "So be it." But now that it's in the I&P section I'll say "Amen." I'll defend anyone's religion and their right to practice it when others disagree falls into the categories of Reverent, Brave, Duty to God, Be warned. If one takes a stand for any of the 12 Laws, be aware it could fall into the I&P toilet. And no, one does not have to do anything. The decision here was a choice made by the moderators on the subject matter. Otherwise it looks like a moderator's attack on one of the forum members. It could have easily been moved without attacking someone. Ironically, moderators are not exempt from moderation. This should have been moved into I&P when members began attacking others' religion.

To judge someone's Christianity as "a totally different religion" than one's own Christianity, is not celebrating diversity. It's okay to celebrate the fact that all snowflakes are different, but to say some flakes are not snow is bigotry. Sorry, try as one may, there is no Christian justification for statements like that.

I had an interesting situation this past week. All the boys in the week at camp that took the Indian Lore MB got partials. How this could ever happen is beyond me, but I was kinda stunned. Does anyone know just how hard it's going to be to find a non-summer camp counselor to sign off on an Indian Lore MB?

I haven't been called on to do a MB for many years even though I have been registered as one. I always thought the 3 part Blue Card was so that the MB counselor, the unit and the scout all get a copy. What is the SM doing, keeping the portion that is not the property of the unit? He doesn't need the Scout's copy to register the MB with the council, the unit copy is sufficient. There is no blue card available to be given to the scout at the COH, This is what the presentation card is for. At the COR, the PL's all have a sorted handful of MB presentation cards. So does the SPL or APL's depending on the situation. Emcee calls up the first PL, he reads the name on the top presentation card of his deck for advancement and MB's Then reads the presentation cards for that scout as he comes up to receive his recognition. Then he reads the next name in the stack of cards, etc. At the end the SPL reads the name of the PL who has cards in his deck and if there is no SPL, the APL presents to the PL. No patches are involved in the process, those have all been given to the scout when he earned them. Blue cards are record keeping documents, not COH material. If the SM has the scout's blue card, it would be appropriate to have the scout respectfully ask for his property to be returned to him.

If a discussion on the Chaplain's Aide POR needs to be discussed in the I&P section of the forum, that doesn't bode well for the duty to God and A Scout is Reverent parts of the Oath and Law. It just might be better to keep it superficial and irrelevant so as to keep it PC for the boys. After all, politics, religion and women are the three topics one needs to avoid to maintain civil discourse in polite society.

My children are avid readers, My son's favorite author is Steven King. My oldest daughter reads 250 books a year, and that doesn't count the 500 books she reads out loud to her 2 year old daughter. My other daughter doesn't do near as many books as her sister, but excels in art that consumes a lot of her time, but she reads constantly to her daughter as well. She's the one that was the full ride scholar to a prestigious school in engineering. Both of the girls home school their children. Both children could communicate before they could talk. The older granddaughter's favorite author is Dr. Seuss and may not read, but she knows the difference between those books and others. Needless to say, my oldest daughter's reading is rather unique because even if it is for her own enjoyment, she still reads out loud so her daughter can hear the story. Yes, my 2 year old granddaughter knows the stories about Harry Potter AND Dr. Seuss, but prefers Dr. Seuss. That may change when she gets to 3 or 4 years of age. Oh, by the way, With camp this week, I got in 3 books. It was great.

having struggled for a number of years with rebuilding a troop and starting from scratch with another. I do not find Beavah's and NJCubScouter's to hold true. 7 boys, all 10-11 years of age, 1) 2 boys constantly fought as to who got to help the Grubmaster do the mess hall Server/Host issue. By Wednesday the GM, had both of them on the job. They were the only 3 boys who worked the mess hall duty. 2) PL showed up for am and pm flags with the troop flag without being told. 3) One of my boys won the award for the most out-going, scoutlike example in the First Year Camper program. There were about 50 boys in that program. No one knew there was even such an award until the closing campfire. 4) Camp counselors were invited to eat at our mess hall table. If they tried to grab a bowl and take it for refill, any one of the boys would remind them they were the guests and they should sit down, that it was their job to go back to the kitchen (not the mess hall host or server on that one). I'm thinking that a lot of people equate good leadership with older, more mature scouts. I don't happen to subscribe to that notion.

That information doesn't seem to be the case with the half dozen college professors I know just from my church. We just had this discussion and college English professors all seem to be in agreement that today's youth are becoming very attuned to video, digitial and other technologies, but simple reading seems to be taking a backseat with the college bound youth of today. My boys were talking about reading and they had an acute understanding video games, Harry Potter, etc. but things like 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Huckleberry Finn, Ben Hur, Call of the Wild, Moby Dick, etc are not only not read, but the majority of boys didn't even recognize the titles.....unless they had seen the movie.... They know the stories from sources other than books.

@@TryingToMom Welcome to the forum, just got back from camp and getting caught up. My comments are in blue. This stuff sounds like a typical adult run program. Some boys like it, some don't. Instead of asking US what WE think, It might do better for the situation if you asked your son what he thinks and is willing to tolerate. If he's not happy, move on down the road. If he's okay with it because he doesn't want to leave his buddies, then that's okay too. There are a ton of adults out there that will say everything mentioned is "normal". I'm not one of them.

Graphic novels, fantasy escapism, etc. are not a valid replacement for the classics. Yeah, I agree, once college was for reading the classics, now the big hit is remedial reading.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEViQcxaVXvaYAoB83nIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByMG04Z2o2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1470510493/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fen.m.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fPercy_Keese_Fitzhugh/RK=0/RS=URY1kMUlJr9tztV7apHTQHiBSd8-

No, but they should know what bigotry and demeaning behavior is that goes against a Scout is reverent towards others.

This issue is universal at this point in life. Kids don't lead because they have never been given the chance. If they have some adult has pulled rug on them and embarrassed them in front of their friends. I have been "volunteering" my church youth to take the lead on things. The youth director warned me that there's a rule that if someone volunteers another then they can turn the table on them. I said I was hoping they would. Finally one boy called me out for volunteering him and I said, "No problem, I don't mind taking away your turn to lead." No one has ever challenged me since. Instead when I just look at them they step up and take the lead. They know I have their back and will go to bat for their leadership.