Stosh

The teaching staff is the 15-18 year olds? Isn't that why the camp MB programs are so poorly run and BSA requires MB counselors to be over 18? The older I get the more I conclude that the only value of a BSA summer camp is a place to camp. At $250+ that's an expensive campsite.

Yep, forgot that, the poles are able to hold the weight of the snow, but the big difference is the liner that collects the frost on the inside of the tent rather than on the walls themselves. I think the walls of the tent are of a heavier mil nylon, too. It's just made to hold up under the brutal wind, cold and snow offered up by the northern climates. Sleeping out under the stars. No tent, no snow cave, no shelter of any sort. It's nice in the winter time. One doesn't need to worry about bug netting.

Yes, the posts are long and not well read and probably not all that well written. But if one were to read carefully there are a few points that have stood out. 1) No one ever said the Roman Catholics were not Christian. But it has been said that if one is not Roman Catholic they are a different religion which means unless one is Roman Catholic they must be a different religion, i.e. non-Christian. 2) No Pope since John XXII would say that is a true statement. 3) No Christian church body would say the Roman Catholics were not Christian either. The rub comes from those who deviate from their teachings, whether it be Roman Catholic or some other denomination, and make statements not reflective of their religious tenets. Not everyone believes in the same manner and not everyone believes as their church body teaches either, but these are exceptions, not the rule. In the case of the OP's CA needing to pray in the Name of Jesus in an ecumenical crowd is not the teaching of most Christian denominations. There are a few who would not participate in any prayers with other Christians, but that's not what a CA need worry about. These scouts would be walking away no matter what God/god is being referenced. As has been pointed out in the thread, Christian bodies that do not wish to associate with the universal acceptance of the Scout Law, have set up their own youth programs, Royal Rangers, Pioneers, TrailLife USA, etc. The church body I associate with at the present time, discourages participation in the BSA on moral issues, but does not forbid it. That prerogative is their issue not the CA's. But the CA needs to be sensitive to those who do wish to participate. He needn't be restricting the prayers to just certain religious traditions and willfully and obviously excluding others So, I'll go back to my original statement. A CA who is not sensitive to the religious needs of those he is to be taking care of, so then maybe prudent to have someone else who might do better at being the CA. As a Christian, I would have no problem with a Jewish or Muslim boy wanting to be CA. Heavenly Father, Jehovah, and Allah all work for me. Great Spirit of us all works even better. Your mileage may vary.....

Buzzkill, there ya go again, quotin' the rules from the rule book. With something as important as the Eagle rank, I would go with @@TAHAWK just to make sure no one questions it down the road. Others out there might be actually reading these things too. Not necessarily, but maybe.

Just a couple of corrections, the Red Letter editions have the actual words Jesus spoke highlighted in red and of course they have to be verbatim KJV. But some scholars in those liberal colleges, I suppose, have indicated that Jesus spoke Aramaic, not even Hebrew. What's with that? We're still looking for a New Testament written in Hebrew so we can confirm that, so until we do, we'll need to keep with the KJV. On the other hand in the Norwegian Lutheran church, Jesus only spoke Norwegian and according to most paintings, Jesus had blue eyes and blonde hair which of course made him either Norwegian Lutheran or German Lutheran. Scholars are working on that as we speak. Besides Jesus being a devout Jew, we need to keep it in mind that so were his 12 Apostles and that makes St. Peter a Jew, too. I'm thinking that Jesus-Peter connection has a wee bit of conspiracy behind it. It was the Greeks in Antioch that started calling the followers of THE WAY, Christians, so I guess in reality Christianity isn't really a proper title for all these different factions. Who knows, maybe the title was a derogatory term and the people of Antioch were not very PC. I'm thinking they didn't really know what to call themselves. Pity we don't have any eye-witness accounts of them ever referring to themselves as something. It would seem we have a whole lot of really important issues to resolve than wondering who's suiting up for the game at this point. Thanks @@Hedgehog you summarized it very nicely.

Oops, my apologies, wasn't paying attention. Thanks for the correction.

@@SSScout one has to remember that in spite of the multiple millenniums of sibling rivalry and flat out intolerance, all three of the major religions in the world today are mono-theistic from the same source. So over time, various prophetic experiences along the way, much duplication, a ton of interpretation, politics, traditions, cultural differences, etc. we seem to come up with a hodgepodge of what we call religions today. They'll all deny their common source and kill each other to insure it. Yes, Jesus was a Jew, and Allah is the same god as the God of Abraham, i.e. the "Jewish" God. This whole religious "family" seems to be intent on making sure that their claim to the "throne" is the only one and that all the brothers and sisters are some kind of usurpers that need to be eliminated. But they, whether they will admit it or not, are all interrelated. Only tradition, culture, power struggles, etc. separate them in their quest for being the Chosen Ones that God likes better than the rest. Kind of a cosmic, Mom loves me more, kind of argument. People don't like admitting Jesus was a devout Jew, and there are those who feel upset by the fact that Martin Luther was an Augustinian monk, Doctorate of Theology and taught in the Roman Catholic Universities. It was his study of Scripture that sparked the debate that eventually forced the Reformation. I guess it doesn't pay to ask questions. The really difficult thing to understand is what Luther started, it is commonly held among the mainline churches, Pope John XXIII finished. The archaic abuses of the middle ages has now been resolved in the Roman Church. That document which was pointed out in the thread clearly demonstrates the theological differences are now resolved, and only the traditional, political, social and cultural differences remain a stumbling block. This is why I find it easy to not worry too much about it because these differences are not theological in nature and that is what really binds the world of Christendom together anyway. Unless a Chaplain's Aide can come to grips with these historically disruptive forces and begin to honor the Scout is Reverent part of the Law, he won't make a very tolerant CA. Our military still has to have it's Catholic, Lutheran, Protestant Christians as well as it's Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc. etc. etc. Chaplains because the government can't figure it out either. The original poster seemed to have a CA that had to pray in the Name of Jesus. That means he is incapable of being a Chaplain's Aide to any non-Trinitarian folk who might be involved with the troop. It would be okay if all were Christian, he could serve, but otherwise it would cause problems for others. Being Reverent means being tolerant of others beliefs, this means I as SM would need to find someone who is to be the CA. I have to take care of the boys... all of the boys. This reminds me of a situation I had many years ago when I was serving a parish in Iowa. The State Pork Producers' asked me to do the invocation and benediction for the Annual Meeting. When I approached the dais I commented, "I will assume I am addressing Christians today so I will use the traditional invocation." There were quite a few in the audience who frankly laughed out loud and yet there were many who had that comment go completely over their heads.

Matt. 16:23ff - Pie anyone? Oh, looky a squirrel......

Really? I didn't meet the woman until 4 years ago when I married her daughter. Just because she was excommunicated 50 years ago, doesn't mean she doesn't attend mass every week. Sorry, but you'll have to do better at digging up justification for your intolerant anger. I gotta admit, after 20 years in the ministry I thought I heard it all, but your fresh material for such intolerance in this day and age is is quite intriguing. The interesting thing about it all, one can now be quite sure of your Christian background and the witness one makes for it. Pope John XXIII left that bigotry behind with Vatican II. It's time to move along with the rest of the Church. By the way, many of my relatives are Roman Catholic or former Roman Catholic, I have officiated at services and weddings with Roman Catholic clergy, both in their congregations as well as mine, I attended a consortium seminary with Roman Catholic, Presbyterian and Lutheran theologians, I have attended Roman Catholic mass in the past 6 months while on a trip, and I find myself quite comfortable with the Roman Catholic clergy friends I have maintained over the years. Your comments are ridiculously unfounded.

Smart boy, snow caves are warmer than tents. A 4 season tent means it can take the harsh weather of winter. It offers no creature comforts. There are a few features of the 4 season to reduce the moisture buildup inside the tent due to warm breath and may add a few degrees of heat retention, but I still prefer the snow caves or meadow crashing in the winter. Be careful with the 2' of snow forecast when you meadow crash.

Percy Keese Fitzhugh was commissioned by the BSA to produce the various series he penned. His book "Along the Mohawk Trail" is a fantastic book for boys to read and are the basis for the characters in his series. A lot of them are in re-print as well and I have picked up some of the books for <$5 so it's not all that expensive for some of the books. They are an easy read and quite addictive even for adults.

Oooh, that might be a fun day trip if we start early enough. Thanks!

Why is it that every now and then it comes as some great surprise that they agree with me? I was baptized Reformed, grew up Methodist, confirmed and ordained ALC Lutheran, I now attend a LCMS church but my CO Is an ELCA Lutheran church. I knew I was going straight to Hell right from the beginning so now I just do my own thing. My wife was brought up Roman Catholic, spent most of her adulthood as Evangelical and now attends with me at the LCMS. As a disappointment to some on the forum, she'll never make sainthood because he dropped Roman Catholic like a hot potato when her mother was excommunicated for taking birth control. My family is majorly diverse with just about every combination of religion and race there is. I travel a lot and would think nothing of stopping on Sunday morning and going into just any church that seems to be seems to be starting services along the way. Because of such Christian diversity in my world, I would never, ever consider saying to any of them that because they didn't go to the church of my denomination that they were not of the same religion - Christian. Just yesterday after the youth board meeting of which I sit in on as a "member" even though I'm not a member of the congregation, the youth director asked me if my wife and I were going to continue on with working with the youth? I said sure, but keep it in mind I'm not a member. She smiled and said, "Doesn't matter, you're one of our lost sheep, every church has to have a few of those." I'm an itinerant preacher that firmly believes in Matt 10:14ff I find it very easy to leave the politics, traditions and decisiveness to others to worry about. I have more important things to do.

I take it one didn't read the links? They are nothing more than the various dictionary definitions of a word. I wasn't trying to do anything more than clarify the commonly accepted usage of the word.

Really Stosh, are you going to try to argue that you must be right, based on a Google search? John-in-KC, lol, at first I read your 'apologetics' as 'apoplectics'. Somehow my version seems to work better. As one who has been in the professional Christian "business" for 35+ years, it doesn't take a Google search to know the basics of terminology and how to use them in a positive and cooperative manner and those terminologies that people deem in appropriate and demeaning. Google was used to show that it is VERY DIFFICULT to find verbiage used by those on the forum as being sensitive, but are instead demeaning and inappropriate for the scouting community. Judaism has sub types such as Reformed, Progressive, Orthodox, Conservative, etc. but they are all of the Jewish religion. Islam has sub types such as Shiite, Sunni, etc. but they are all of the Islamic religion. Well, Christianity has it's sub types as well, referred to as denominations. There are the Roman Catholics, the Lutherans, the Baptists, Evangelicals, etc. but they are all the same RELIGION. To say otherwise indicates an insensitivity comparable to the Shiite/Sunni conflict of the Middle East. Obviously there is no need for such intolerance and bigotry in Muslim Scouting anymore than what is acceptable in Christian Scouting with Scouts and Scouters saying the different types of ones religion are in fact not even part of the religion. That is a classic example of the definition of the intolerance of bigotry. Sorry, but I didn't make up the definitions of the words nor the dynamics in how they are used. It is just a linguistic fact. Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic, The Anglican, Lutheran, etc. etc. all have their descendants of the early church fathers as their basis. Romans and Greeks separated because Rome fell prey to the barbarians (who also happened to be Christian in many cases) and were politically destroyed. The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, Roman nor an empire, but there are those that felt it necessary to keep telling themselves that. The Roman Catholics and the Anglicans split because Henry VIII wanted to remarry and wasn't going to let some Pope in Italy tell him what he could or couldn't do. Luther was a Roman Catholic who was declared an outlaw for questioning the practices (not the theology) of the Roman Catholic Church. So, how we doing on the political vs. theological differences? Once the ball got rolling and Roman Catholics weren't the dominant power in the world anymore, the Roman Catholics took their place alongside all the other Christian denominations in the world. After 1000 years of fragmentation as the political winds blew over Europe, we finally have John XXIII bringing people back together, but what took 1000 years to tear apart, to think that 50 years is going to heal it is pie-in-the-sky thinking. No one accepts the fact that these Christian denominations are different religions except a few remaining hold outs in the Roman Catholic circles. It's kinda like the Baptist who died and went to heaven and was getting a tour when he realized there was a large section that was completely walled off with no doors or windows. When he asked St. Peter what was behind the wall, he said, "It's the Roman Catholics, they don't know the rest of us are here." So if people insist on the intolerance of saying others are not Christian when in fact everyone else says they are, then they'll have to accept the outcast position they have placed themselves in. I for one don't care, but I will not idly stand by and have intolerant scouts belittling others' faith by saying they are not Christian. Having moderation allow the practice is kinda surprising to me as well.

I was kinda impressed with the AOL requirements. I may have my ASM go back every year and work the Webelos boys into the troop. The learning curve this year with the new boys is quite easy now that most of what we are currently doing is nothing more than an AOL review.

Let them know that a year has passed, $XX is in the patrol account, it's not doing anyone any good. The patrols need to get their heads in the game and put together a patrol budget this year so you know how best to help them with what they want. Otherwise the money is going to sit in the bank doing no one any good. As far as being bummed out about going. Remember, it's for the boys and you are probably their best champion for making a boy led, patrol method program an eventual reality. No one ever said the transition was going to be easy. It's a lot of hard work, but worth every minute one puts into it.

Just as a curiosity, I have been kayaking for over 20 years now. I can safely say I could not teach kayaking MB. I have no idea what the different parts of the kayak are other than the part one keeps wet and the part that one tries to keep dry. In my 8' kayak there's no way I could paddle 25 yards in a straight line, in whitewater rapids I couldn't stop it within a boat's length. Doing a 360o with a sea kayak is not the same as doing it in a whitewater kayak. b. Review the differences in the design between recreational, whitewater, and sea or touring kayaks. Include how length, width, stability, and rocker are involved in the design of each type. One of my kayaks is a Transitional kayak. That's not even mentioned in the list. Yep, the Mrs. confirms it. She's been kayaking for a lot longer than I have and has done everything from sea kayaking in Alaska to the whitewater rapids around our area..... She kayaks 2-3 times a week and she told me that without studying she'd be unable to pass the kayaking MB, too.

Buy two cheap nets and get out the old sewing machine and have someone make one specifically to the dimensions needed. It doesn't need to look pretty. Most people sleep with their eyes closed anyway. I find that my standard net fits over my military cot just fine and I use various fastening techniques to the inside of the tent. No poles necessary. I am tall (6'), but not large (170#) and don't have trouble with the cot being too small or the netting too confining. I just make sure it hangs low enough to keep the critters from coming in from underneath, but that does pose a entry/exit hassle with the netting catching the corners of the cot, etc. Oh, and if your sewer would like to slit up the side and put in velcro fasteners they might consider that, but It seems like a hassle to me. Just pull it up and over and crawl out.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/protestant http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Protestant http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/protestant http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/protestant http://www.definitions.net/definition/Protestant http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Protestantism http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/14300/what-do-the-words-catholic-and-protestant-mean http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/protestantism As hard as I try, I cannot find any of the Google search references that say Protestants are a different religion than Roman Catholics. The only time I have heard that kind of referencing since my childhood of the 1960's around the Vatican II era has just been recently on the forum.

Matt. 10:14ff

Obviously what one person says does not speak for the whole of the Catholic church. I have participated many times in ecumenical service of the Catholic church under many different priests who have all known that I am a Lutheran pastor and was not discouraged from taking part fully in the worship service. So whatever the Jesuit priest said might have been canon law but what the priests practice in their parishes seem to be two entirely different issues going on. And so what is a Jesuit? It would bode well to bone up on one's history. I do believe Loyola was a Catholic mystic who was basically a professional soldier whose mission and the mission of his followers was to "convert" Muslims and later on the pagans of the New World. I wouldn't say they were the best example of evangelism Christianity has to offer.

And @@Beavah that's the point I was precisely making. Nobody wants to hear that their denomination in the Christian faith is a different religion! Give me a negative review for stating exactly what is being promoted by some on this board including posts with the Beavah names on them, and I'm calling out as totally inappropriate behavior for members of the BSA, contrary to the Scout is Reverent Law and why someone whose biases indicate they public state that certain groups of Christians are not Christians, but a different religion is justification for me to go waaaaaay back to my original post. People like that don't belong in the CA position in scouting and for the most part I would seriously question their sincerity towards being a reverent scout. You can say my Christianity is a different religion but I can't say your is? THAT is bigotry. My apologies if that is offensive, but I find that calling other Christian denominations a different religion is unacceptable for the scouting program. bigotry [big-uh-tree] Synonyms Examples Word Origin See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com noun, plural bigotries. 1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own. 2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.

We have people in the area who are well versed in the subjects, they just don't go through the signup/ YPT necessary to teach it. I am a local historian, I have contacts with many organizations and know of many people qualified to teach it, but I'm figuring on 3-6 months of my time getting someone interested in helping out, signing them up and training them with YPT just so I can cover what the summer camp screwed up in the first place. Needless to say, when I asked these first year scouts where they wanted to go next year, one boy out of seven said the staff was nice and would want to come back to this camp. Everyone else wanted to "try" someplace else. I guess it's going to be another 15 years before I return to this particular camp.

I went down to do my requisite sign up to be registered as a MB counselor and I made the very short list of available counselors and I was the only one who said I would make myself available to the boys of the whole council, not just my own troop. It's really sad around here when it comes to MB's. CIT instructors at summer camp and people who sign up for the one day MB University seem to be the only ones available. Those that do sign up like myself are generally doing MB partials that were not completed with the first counselor at camp or university. The "tradition" around here is to have a ton of ASM's cover as many MB's as possible to legitimately sign off on the boys in the troop.