Stosh

Doing this adult stuff with youth has often been compared to herding cats. That, however, is for the pessimist because herding cats never ends or gets better. I like the analogy of wiring a house with the electricity turned on. It might be a slow, often dangerous, and cautious process in the beginning, but if done correctly, eventually everything is going to light up like Times Square!

The process of change needs to be a smooth transition. Today the SM signs off. Everyone who has a book and has completed an advancement requirement goes to the SM to have it signed off. Then there's the gradual transition to the PL so that everyone has a book and has completed an advancement requirement, goes to the PL to have it signed off. If one talks clearly and distinctly, not too rushed, this transition should take about 30 seconds if done in front of all the boys. If it takes longer than that it could be a problem. because if that the boys will be confused as to who signs off in their books. I'm thinking those who need more time are concerned more about power control and that could take a long time for some adults to adjust to... if ever. I totally love @@Eagle94-A1's signature! It is a glaring reminder that if one is going to move forward, step two is more important than step one. Training is easy, these boys aren't stupid they can handle it. Trusting them? That's easy too, these boys aren't stupid, they can handle it. Letting them lead? Well, that's easy too, these boys aren't stupid, they can handle it. So, as an adult why is it that I might think they can't handle it? Getting the boys to lead is not the problem, getting adults to trust is. This is why so many use the excuse that the boys can't handle it, it's an excuse for the fact that the adults can't.

Thank you! As a Christian I don't understand them either.

We can trust the boys with a jack knife. We can trust the boys with a lock-blade knife We can trust the boys with a butcher knife. But we can't trust the boys with a sheath knife. There's a common denominator here and having noticed it, the only extenuating dynamic coming through is the sheath must be the dangerous part.

Hmmm, a First Class PL can't sign off on a Star or Life Scout? What's with that? Did he show up for the service hours? Did he show the MB blue cards? Where those he was taking care of feel he did a good job for POR? I would think it would be easier to sign off on Star and Life than for S->FC with having to check with every little training detail. My PL responsibility does not stop when the boys reach FC. A PL is responsible for making sure the Eagle Scout member of his patrol has the opportunity to work on palms. No, the adults do not need to take over and run the patrol method once the boys reach First Class.

I carry the hunting knife that my grandfather carried. I've skinned a lot of game and filleted a ton of fish with it. Carry it whenever I'm in the woods. It's my emergency knife for everything from kitchen work to rapid fire building when hypothermia sets in. I do have a conceal carry so It's legal in my state and BSA camps that ban them are unaware of it. At least no one has asked me about it in 35 years.

The real stupid logic behind this whole concept is not the knife or the sheath, but that a scout can carry it around. I teach my boys about folding blade knives, lock blade knives and fixed blade knives. It's pretty hard to do kitchen chores without knowing about fixed blade knives and their safety. But not to worry, they aren't sheath knives, the boys just dump them into the chuck box after washing. So wielding them in the kitchen is okay, but wearing them is bad? It's kinda like the stupid rules we have here in my state. A person can open carry a weapon, but if they put a coat on, they have to have a special permit and training. ??? Really ???

The camp that I attended last week bans sheath knives. I use my belt axe/sheath knife combo all the time and when I wore my 1910 Scout uniform I wore the combo with it. A couple of the staff asked about it and when I showed them it was official BSA equipment, they just said, "Cool!" It's ironic that the camp bans sheath knives yet sells belt axes in the trading post. Seriously? As long as BSA doesn't put a limit on blade length, I guess I'll have to start wearing my sword again.

dirt track.... early literature of the BSA had scout units using trains to get out to a depot were they could hike into the back country for summer camp. Oh, by the way, summer camp was summer camp. Lasted all summer long and the SM would come out and check on them on the weekends. I guess the only thing different nowadays is the shuttle from the depot to the camp?????

Thanks @@MrBob that one got me to chuckle.

And the kicker on that is in the reenacting world, the guys with the cannon and any other large-bore artillery device have to be certified. All the other yahoos with black powder rifle muskets standing shoulder to shoulder aiming at other people and hand guns and sabers while riding horses at a full gallop don't. It is obvious they have never played the game.

If we track that as a moral obligation to honesty, then one's religious upbringing may come into play. But you're probably right with the "divine revelation" crowd. There's a lot of those out there who keep adding their version of religion onto the original sources. Book of Mormon, etc. kinds of things. Mohamad's writings fall into that as well. With all this other "stuff" coming down the pike, it's kinda hard to know what the truth is anymore. I guess it's going to have to be "do your own thing" when it comes to religion. That's pretty much the stance of the BSA anyway. I think I'm going to worship paperclips today. Tomorrow's a whole new world. After all Son of Sam said God was talking to him, who's to say it wasn't.

And what does Scripture say about it? Hmmmm, nothing.... And I can, if I may, correct your comment. Only Roman Catholics believe in transubstantiation. It is a fact that no other Christian denomination, including Eastern Orthodoxy believe in it. It is unique to the Latin Church. It was adopted at the Fourth Lateran Council (1215 AD) and formalized at the Council of Trent (1545-63 AD). It was reaffirmed at the Second Vatican Council (1962-65 AD). Unfortunately it has no Scriptural basis to support it's practice in the Church. This is why Eastern Orthodoxy, Lutheranism and a small number of other liturgical Churches go with consubstantiation indicating the real presence of Christ in the sacrament, but most Protestants simply say it's a symbolic metaphor and the presence of Christ is not really there. It's too bad Jesus spent so much time teaching in metaphors and parables. It makes it hard to understand as time passes. So traditionally this may be a big, big, biggie, but theologically it means nothing. It's kinda like baptismal sprinkling, splashing, dunking, or whatever. The end result is the person is baptized. How is irrelevant. Yet to a Baptist, it is a big, big, biggie to be immersed. Celibacy of the clergy is also unique to the Roman Church but only in later history. 39 Popes were married including Peter, the first pope. There again, the tradition is totally unfounded in Scripture. While there is nothing wrong with certain traditions, Martin Luther began to question a few of them. It was not Scripture he questioned nor even its interpretation, it was the traditional practices which were not based in Scripture.that were the issue. Theologically we are the same, traditionally we are different and that is no big, big, biggie.

You may be correct in this as a lot of what I would refer to as Christian religious groups (Lutheran, Baptist, etc.) back a ways would not have included the Roman Catholic Church or as it was once referred to as THE PAPACY meaning it was more political than religious in composition. Even concerns of John F. Kennedy's presidency being influenced by his "religious" leader (the Pope) was a campaign issue. I was there and I was old enough to understand the comments being made. To me the word catholic means universal and so using the Roman Universal Church (meaning it's political center was in Rome) would work just as well as Roman Catholic Church giving it a more spiritual nature with the capitalized C in Catholic. So if the word universal or catholic is dropped out of the title it would be referring to the Roman Church as differentiated from the Orthodox Church. Again that was a political split in the collapsing Roman Empire. France didn't always recognize the Italian Pope, nor did the English with the Church of England breaking away. The struggle of the Roman Church to retain political power seemed to supersede the religious dynamics of the faith. This kind of "taxation" imposed by Rome seemed to spark much of the debate with Luther who wanted to revitalize the spiritual nature of the church over the struggling political nature of the church at that time. There are a lot of major linguistic, political, social, historical hurdles to cover come in a discussion like this. But spiritual/theological isn't a biggie.

Hedge, would that mean you would not use the terms Muslims or Jews either because they would fit into the same category as Christian? I hear Lutherans, Catholics, Orthodox, Presbyterian being bantered around, but never Reform, Orthodox, Conservative being used in reference to Judaism. Nor Shiite, Sunni, Baha'i, or Ahmadiyya being used much for Islam. They say there are more factions of Hinduism than Christians have denominations. I'll have to take their word for it. I don't know. I know that originally the followers of Christ called themselves the Followers of the Way. Is it a correct understanding that when Roman Catholics refer to the "Church" they are referring to only the Roman Catholic Church? or the definition of catholic (universal) Church? I have found over the years that one's bias, prejudices or even bigotry is based on the subtle use of words that carry double meanings. I am saying one thing and in my heart I know you are hearing something different. For example: in my childhood (pre Vatican II) there were Catholics, Lutherans and Protestants. Today (post-Vatican II) there are only Catholics and Protestants. Where did the Lutherans go? Church history tells us Luther (a devote Augustinian monk and theologian) wanted to REFORM the practices to adhere to Scripture. It was never his intent to break away and protest (Protestant) the Roman Church. The schism occurred when the Roman Church outlawed Luther. So with Vatican II the reforms outlined during Luther's time have been resolved to Scripture. So where does that leave the Lutherans? Obviously 400 years of cultural and social along with political wrangling, the two groups have solidified quite differently mostly along ethnic and regional lines. The northern half of Europe is predominantly Lutheran while the southern half stayed with the Italian papacy and the eastern was already separated into the Greek and Russian Orthodoxy. Once all these immigrants reached the Colonies, it became less of an issue over time (Pilgrims at Plymouth were Puritans, The Dutch in New Amsterdam (New York) were Reformed, William Penn's colony of Pennsylvania was Quaker, etc.) and once the Revolution established a Constitution, the whole issue became moot. So the ultimate question is: Is the pope holding the stirrup for the king or is the king holding the stirrup for the pope? The words we use will never be able to define it.

Gee, I just wandered through my garden this morning and have a ton of non-refrigerated items to make meals with. Steamed green beans, wax beans, broccoli and peas to go along with corn on the cob. A massive handful of raspberries for the cereal this morning. (oops, I used milk on my cereal) Tonight it'll be zucchini, onion stuffed acorn squash along with fresh picked tomatoes for desert. I'll probably have another ear of corn to go with that. From now until October I really don't go to the store much.

MB's used to be an option for Summer Camp. Now they ARE summer camp. When I went to summer camp 50 years ago, no one took MB classes. But we all participated in swimming, canoeing, shooting sports, scoutcraft, cooked in-site, and did everything as a unit. In the four years I was in scouts, I earned 1 MB and it wasn't earned at summer camp. Seriously? Teaching chess with the EDGE method? All my buddies and I played chess and no one even knew what the EDGE method was. We learned by playing the game....... Maybe that should be the BSA's mission: Learn by playing the game..... Naw, it'll never sell.

If I'm not wrong, I think some of the Cooking MB now has parts where the boys are to cook meals at home????? If that be the case, it makes it kinda hard to finish at camp.

Oops, sorry, wasn't paying attention.

Don't even get me going. There's a restaurant in a small town in the west central part of the state called the Norskenook. They make pies to die for! I mean they do the from scratch, gotta be 65+ and a Norwegian grandmother to work in the bakery. On March 14, 2015 (3.1415 etc) my whole family including my brother and his whole family who drove up from Illinois to have pie. I took off from work to be there! About 10 years ago they opened another restaurant in the northern part of the state..... 6 miles from the Boy Scout Camp!! It was the worst week of my pie life. So close and yet so far!

I don't think your link is working, maybe it's just my machine.

As I mentioned, I have first year scouts so we went with the mess hall camp. It was the first time in many, many years I was at a mess hall camp and the whole time I was there, it reminded me that it's going to be many, many years before I go back. As a kid of that age, I thought the school cafeteria for lunch was a really bad idea. Getting the "treatment" 3 times a day was/is horrendous. I do have to admit that living off salads and walking around camp as much as I did, it dropped me 6#'s. That's a good thing.

@@TAHAWK Awww c'mon, it isn't that bad, I had one boy who was in the Swimming MB, only got Beginner on the swim test. Yet when he went to the instructional swim/Swimming MB, he came out of the class with a Blue Card indicating he had only 3 more requirements to get the MB. Not bad for a kid that can't pass the swim test. And as I mentioned earlier, the entire camp not getting a complete on the Indian Lore MB is a travesty. Every boy in the class did not complete #1 and #4h then read the requirement for #4 DO ONE of the following. I guess that one of the week was #4h. They were given no pre-requirement to do certain things prior to the class and no resources were available in camp to complete it. After looking at the requirements, I'm surprised as to what the class was up to for the whole week. Some heavy duty requirements there but somehow the boys got somethings done. Indian Lore merit badge requirements Give the history of one American Indian tribe, group or nation that lives or has lived near you. Visit it, if possible. Tell about traditional dwellings, way of life, tribal government, religious beliefs, family and clan relationships, language, clothing styles, arts and crafts, food preparation, means of getting around, games, customs in warfare, where members of the group now live, and how they live. Do TWO of the following. Focus on a specific group or tribe. a. Make an item of clothing worn by members of the tribe. b. Make and decorate three items used by the tribe, as approved by your counselor. c. Make an authentic model of a dwelling used by any Indian tribe, group, or nation. d. Visit a museum to see Indian artifacts. Discuss them with your counselor. Identify at least 10artifacts by tribe or nation, their shape, size, and use. Do ONE of the following: a. Learn three games played by a group or tribe. Teach and lead one game with a Scout group. b. Learn and show how a tribe traditionally cooked or prepared food. Make three food items. c. Give a demonstration showing how a specific Indian group traditionally hunted, fished, or trapped. Do ONE of the following: a. Write or briefly describe how life would have been different for the European settlers if there had been no native Americans to meet them when they came to this continent. b. Sing two songs in an Indian language. Explain their meaning. c. Learn in an Indian language at least 25 common terms and their meanings. d. Show 25 signs in Indian sign language. Include those that will help you ask for water, for food, and where the path or road leads. e. Learn an Indian story of up to 300 words (or several shorter stories adding up to no more than 300 words). Tell the story or stories at a Scout gathering or campfire. f. Write or tell about eight things adopted by others from American Indians. g. Learn 25 Indian place names. Tell their origins and meanings. h. Name five well-known American Indian leaders, either from the past or people of today. Give their tribes or nations. Describe what they did or do now that makes them notable. i. Learn about the Iroquois Confederacy, including how and why it was formed. Tell about its governing system. Describe some of the similarities and differences between the governments of the United States and of the Six Nations (the Haudenosaunee or Iroquois Confederacy). The more I look into these kinds of things, the more tempted I am to challenge every Eagle Scout's requirement fulfillment. I would bet good money, most are not truly earned in the spirit of BSA honesty and advancement expectations. Noticed the little padlock in the requirements and it's there because: " This article reflects an official policy of MeritBadgeDotOrg and is protected by an administrative lock. If you wish to edit this article, please discuss your ideas for proposed changes on the talk page, first. Editing or removal of protection from this article may not occur without authorization from a bureaucrat. Thank you." I think that sums it up very well.

BINGO! You are exactly right. And if the Patrol Method were to begin to get traction once more in the BSA program, summer camps will suffer even more. The summer camp I was at last week prided itself in being one of the country's premier BSA camps. The MB staff was extremely questionable, the food was mess hall marginal, the tents were non-existent, the boys had cabins that slept 4 boys (1/2 a patrol), and to top it off, only one of my boys wanted to go back next year. They were all first year scouters, they had nothing else to compare the camp to. Taking a 5 day canoe trip at 1/2 the cost sounds better than 90% of the camps in the US.