Stosh

Denner cords are just for the adults to make it look good, they have no intention of letting the boys lead anything at that age. It's kinda like a temporary participation award to be cool for a month. Save your money, buy them treats, they totally understand that.

I'm thinking that Northern Star Council's pilot program is basically dead in the water before it starts. Like NJCubScouter says, "sounds like a joke." Some Northern Star Council web sites say $24 registration until 12/31/17 and others say $32 + $16 (Boys Life). Nothing posted as yet of any changes.

We've always used campgrounds, beaches, etc. that are far less expensive than hotels. My church youth group always use churches to sleep in, even when they have reached their destination except for the time spend at Bible Camps. I think that's about the only time the kids pay for "lodging". Venturing Crew would use pre-event and post-event hotels because they traveled with a group that used buses and hotels. That was a one a year event, like summer camp expense would be. Cost of that ran $150 per scout for a week's event. A few times we meadow crashed at Rest Areas along the freeway. As long as we didn't put up tents or start fires we were "resting" not camping. Police often would "check us out" and none ever gave us any grief once they knew we were scouts traveling.

My Venturing Crew was a specialty unit that required $1500 to start, but then was only gas and food after that. National Events cost gas and food. Local events cost gas and food, but often meals were provided. I wonder now, too, how much more an Eagle Scout coughs up to get the medal? Uniform and patches X 2 = X 3 if Jambo = $250-$300 Annual registration $25 X 7 = $175 Summer camp $250 X 7 = $1750 Campouts $15 X 12 X 7 = $1260 Jambo $ X travel expense = $1000-$2000 Dues 12 X 7 = varies All in al, those estimates of the biggies starts the price tag at about $5,000ish. Granted a lot of this can be deferred through fund raising, but we're talking a bit of money here.

It's kinda difficult to get the 300' distance one needs between patrols....in a hotel restaurant. Seriously, though, I don't think in all the years of scouting I have been involved with (and there's been plenty) I don't think I have ever heard of Scoutis using a hotel. It's a lot cheaper and easier to just find a park or campground.

It costs me absolutely nothing to work with the youth in the church, I can't even take mileage because they cover that too. No uniforms to buy, not patches, no registration, no paying for kids who can't afford it. Nada. Now Scouting on the other hand..... well that's a different story. I have t pay for training, for travel, for uniforms, etc. So now the expensive program wants to make a HUGE increase in cost .... wadaya think?

I don't think they are allowed to unless there's a fireplace and lots of tropical plants in the rooms.

It doesn't, it still pays the $20 and provides a place to meet. The whole financial onus falls on the unit, the unit's programming and the boys. I can't believe they would do such a thing.... Yeah right, it's only a matter of time.

Maybe the well-to-do in the Twin Cities can afford this but it will be the death knell for many units. Basically it is a scam to make the units do the FOS fund raising for the council.

And, people, this is how easy it is for BSA to totally work its way out of the market. They are trying to compete with people on a level they just don't understand. There's a whole lot of people who don't mind riding the bus instead of taking the limo.

That's because the "talent" we have today in the art world can't compete with the true masters. Synthesized music is not the same as played music. My grandfather and his generation actually played musical instruments. So does my generation. Most of the kids today just play their iPad "tunes". Classical art is not paint splashed on a canvas by an elephant. A photo-shopped picture can't compete with Ansel Adams. Need I go on?

And I certainly hope you do! I pulled a behind the scenes adult initiated stunt at camp this year. I have the boy selected PL and APL of the patrol. Then I had this other boy who I thought for sure the boys would have picked for the PL position but didn't. He ended up with no specific "role" to play in the patrol. So I waved my adult magic wand of power and designated him ActivityMaster. He was going to be in charge of the activities for the patrol. Whereas the PL/APL would take care of the boys, in uniform, fed, to bed, get up, etc. the ActivityMaster would be in charge of daily schedule, when to be there, keeper of the clock, keeping the boys and PL up-to-date on where they needed to be for what activity. Now that we're back home after camp he is responsible for the monthly activity, where to go, what to do, what advancement needs to be done, contacting instructors, the keeper of the annual calendar. He is going to get that set up this fall with the new school year. So where in the BSA program does that fit? I dunno, and I don't care. The boy is fired up, he's excited about the task, he works well with the PL/APL team and I need more coffee......

When I was that age our patrol would regularly camp around the country we could reach on bikes. It was a rural area so there were plenty of options. I realize that today many of those options and freedoms are no longer available, but we did keep ourselves from being bored. With that being said, I left the BSA program after 4 years of going nowhere. The only thing that held our patrol to any such activity in the troop was the learning scoutcraft and going camping. If the troop wasn't going camping we did anyway. SM would always get bent out of shape about it, but we didn't wear our scout uniforms and it was not a scout activity. All we needed was our parents' permission, our bikes, a bit of food and we were gone for the weekend. When it became obvious scouting wasn't going to provide anything more, we could continue on without it and so we switched to a more adventurous program, Civil Air Patrol. Although I never got beyond 2nd Class in Scouting, I was a radioman, navigator on larger aircraft and certified observer on small craft. We flew 6 training drill activities and 2 "for real" searches for the state. Of course it was co-ed and we attended the annual statewide military ball for fun. The only certification I didn't get was my glider pilot's license. That was a bit over budget for my own expense. There can be adventure out there for the boys. 50 years ago they kinda let the ball drop, at least in my area, and from what I can tell even with the traditional Explorer Posts (which were not anywhere near our area) Exploring of the 70's-90's and Learning for Life/Venturing, I'm not seeing a whole lot of SCOUT adventure being provided out there. Sure the Medical Posts, the Law Enforcement, the Firefighters type of posts do very well, but they aren't the in-the-wood Scouts of the older boys. It was a lot easier setting up Exploring posts back in the 70's than it is setting up Venturing Crews today. I've done both. A lot of talk out there, but the kids today just aren't ready to sign on the dotted line and go out and find their adventure. The high schoolers talk about wanting to be grownup, but they pretty much can't or don't want to lift a finger to do more than just talk. That's not just scouting, there are a lot of youth groups suffering from this issue and the only ones that survive are the heavily adult organized, come and be entertained programs like the YMCA, Boys & Girls Clubs, Church youth groups, etc. It's almost as if the youth do not want to lead, just follow what someone else has put together and then complain because they are bored. Thus they just wander from one activity that sounds good to the next constantly seeking but seldom finding.

I hope you do well. I had similar numbers lined up and it ended up all smoke and no flame. Hang in there, it's worth the risk getting started and don't be disappointed if there are bumps along the way. I'm excited for you!

Sometimes all it takes is one caring adult to make the whole difference in a young child's life. I am glad your nephew has you. He will someday come to realize that you are his real parent. Scouting is a great idea for him, he'll appreciate it, it might be a good thing to become part of the scouting community so that he knows that you are "close". That sometimes makes the challenges easier to know one has someone in their "corner". Do your best outside the scouting world as well and help him internalize the lessons he's learning. It appears you might be his only hope to break out into the world in one piece. Hang in there.

I know of people who are so paranoid that they can't watch football because every time the team huddled up, they thought they were talking about them. Keep it in mind, that's not always the case when the team huddles up.

I hate to say it, but does any of this border on abuse? If some was throwing rocks and dirt at my kid, I'd have the police involved. This dysfunctional situation is way beyond a normal upbringing for a child. Your call, but I would be VERY concerned.

There are twelve classical world religions—those religions most often included in history of world religion surveys and studied in world religions classes: Baha'i, Buddhism, Christianity, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Shinto, Sikhism, Taoism, and Zoroastrianism. There are twelve classical world religions—those religions most often included in history of world religion surveys and studied in world religions classes: Baha'i, Buddhism, Christianity, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Shinto, Sikhism, Taoism, and Zoroastrianism. Featured religions and beliefs AtheismAtheists are people who believe that god or gods are man-made constructs. Baha'iOne of the youngest of the world's major religions. BuddhismA way of living based on the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama. Candomblé A religion based on African beliefs, originating in Brazil. ChristianityThe world's biggest faith, based on the teaching of Jesus Christ. HinduismA group of faiths rooted in the religious ideas of India. IslamRevealed in its final form by the Prophet Muhammad. JainismAn ancient philosophy and ethical teaching that originated in India. Jehovah's WitnessesA Christian-based evangelistic religious movement. JudaismBased around the Jewish people's covenant relationship with God. MormonismThe Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. PaganismContemporary religions usually based on reverence for nature. RastafariA young religion founded in Jamaica in the 1930s. SanteriaAfro-Caribbean syncretic religion originating in Cuba. ShintoJapanese folk tradition and ritual with no founder or single sacred scripture. SikhismThe religion founded by Guru Nanak in India in the 15th Century CE. SpiritualismSpiritualists believe in communication with the spirits of people who have died. TaoismAn ancient tradition of philosophy and belief rooted in Chinese worldview. UnitarianismAn open-minded and individualistic approach to religion. ZoroastrianismOne of the oldest monotheistic faiths, founded by the Prophet Zoroaster. No matter how much I Google search religions of the world I do not ever see Roman Catholicism as a separate religion from Christianity. I do see the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses not under Christianity, but there are theological reasons for that. So going with the world view of religions, I'm going to put you and all my Catholic friends, relatives, colleagues in with those who follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. If that is Catholic bashing, I'll take my lumps over and over again, but I will not back off on saying me and the whole world put the Pope and Latin Church firmly in the definition of a Christian Church and integral part of the Body of Christ. Now with that being said. If others out there who are Roman Catholic who think that the Church out there other than Roman Catholic are not Christian, being of a different religion, then that's their prerogative to be wrong, too.

Being a part of the Christian community makes every group a subset. (Subset defined and used as the logical venn diagram model) What any one person of a denomination believes is not necessarily what that denomination teaches. What one person defines a word as is not necessarily what the common usage definition of the word might be. A statement like that, again using venn diagram logic means that one or the other is Christian and the other is not. This implies Protestant bashing and it has always been my contention that the Roman Church is as Christian as all the rest who profess the Christian Creeds. Again, a slam against the non-Christian Protestants. Please don't put those words in my mouth because I would never use it. However, bigotry is more often defined in terms of an individual, not a group. Which I did when it first came out and I again studied it at length in seminary under Catholic theologians. Tit-for-tat. Hear the words and listen to the meaning. The Roman Catholic Church is as Christian as any other denomination that adheres to the three canonical Creeds, Apostles, Nicene, and Athenasian Creeds. The all have their basis in the universally accepted Sacred Scriptures of the Holy Bible. They all have their exegetical traditions which enhances but not changes the teaching of the faith. All the denominations of this fellowship make up the mystical Body of Christ here on earth, also known as the Kingdom of God, the Church, etc. I did not make up definitions to words that are commonly accepted, I did not imply anything beyond what I stated, and if that is Roman Catholic bashing, then I have a ton of 'splainin' to do to my family, my friends, my coworkers, my theological professors, my professional colleagues, who happen to be Catholic. Because until this discussion arose here on the forum, I have never heard from any of them speaking of Catholicism in terms presented here. It makes it hard to understand a person's point of view when all the history one has with professional theologians, clergy, and laity doesn't include such definitions. About all I can do is apologize for other people's misunderstanding or personal biases people may have.

If the SM is in charge of the boys' program, running a program where the PL's sign off, I can honestly say NO ONE has spoken against it. It's just the way it's done around here. My PL's are trained in how this is done and they do it.

Fair enough, I'll put it under I&P where everyone can see it.

I take it that one has not read the link.... " Then the writer added: “There is just one exception to this rule. Orthodox Christians (such as Greek Orthodox Christians) may take communion in all Roman Catholic Churches. The reason for this is that Orthodox Christianity also teaches the actual presence of God in the host.†This widespread understanding of the matter is not accurate and needs to be corrected on several counts, theological as well as pastoral. An entire tome could be written by way of explanation, but here are a few of the most important elements. In the next two columns we’ll explore some others. In the first place, we need to acknowledge that many Protestant Christians (including many Anglicans) do believe that Holy Communion offers them a true participation in Christ’s Body and Blood. They may not articulate that belief as Catholics or Orthodox would like; but their faith in Christ’s “real presence in the Eucharist†is genuine and should not be disparaged or denied. Then again, Orthodox Eucharistic theology does not explain the change of bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ as a result of “transubstantiation,†the teaching that the “accidents†(visible properties) of the elements remain unaltered, while their “substance†or inner essence becomes the actual Body and Blood. Orthodox tradition speaks of “change†or “transformation,†(metamorphôsis; in the Eucharistic Divine Liturgy metabalôn, “making the changeâ€) but always with a concern to preserve the mystery from the probings of human reason. So here we have the bias of tradition rearing it's ugly head. I'm not disparaging the Catholics, I am only pointing out their teachings which they have studied, published and proclaim. If that is disparaging to them, then they had better go back and review their process of letting the world know about the Roman Catholic faith. And like local option, it is rampant in the Roman Church. What one priest in parish A promotes, another priest in parish B forbids. When my first wife filed for divorce (her family is Roman Catholic, aunt was a nun) but she was brought up Lutheran. She cited to the court that a Roman Catholic priest said it was okay for her to get a divorce. That must have been quite a hunt to find a priest that says divorce is an appropriate way to handle divorce. My youngest brother was the only one of my siblings that didn't marry a Roman Catholic, I attended a consortium seminary of which the Latin Church was an integral part. I have worked closely professionally with many Catholic clergy and have never found a reason to disparage them in any way. I have taken the full array of classes a non-Roman Catholic would take in order to become a member of the church and find nothing there that I would theologically disagree with. Feel free to point out instances where I need apologize for disparaging the Roman Catholic faith. As a matter of fact, I have stood up to those who say it isn't Christian. I believe it truly is and will say so as many times as necessary to emphasize it. Why would I bash a religion whose theology I agree with and quite often commune at fellowship with them when the occasion arises? One can call me a lot of things, but bashing Roman Catholicism isn't one of them. I have had instruction in the Reformed, Methodist, Lutheran, Roman Catholic and Presbyterian Christian communities. So what does that make me? I hold no membership in any church and if I had a bone to pick with any of them it would be the Lutherans.

And how often are the boys taught to disinfect the broom used to sweep out the latrines each day? Are there gloves provided to do this with? Bleach provided? Is any of this even discussed in the troops as part of their camp preparation? 50 years ago a very close friend of mine died as a result of a disease contracted at the very same camp I attended this past summer. I don't see 50 years of progress to keep that from happening again and I don't see G2SS addressing the issue either. That's the blindness I refer to. As a national statistic, out of every 330 safety infractions, the person will "get away with it" 300 times. There will be injury in 29 of those events and one death. Is that acceptable to BSA?

What term do they use? I'm curious. "The Eucharistic gifts of bread and wine become for us His Body and His Blood. We affirm that these Holy Gifts are transfigured into the first fruits of the New Creation in which ultimately God will be "all in all". - Greek Orthodox in America, Rev. Thomas Fitzgerald. "Thus, the eucharist in the Orthodox Church is understood to be the genuine Body and Blood of Christ precisely because bread and wine are the mysteries and symbols of God’s true and genuine presence and manifestation to us in Christ. Thus, by eating and drinking the bread and wine which are mystically consecrated by the Holy Spirit, we have genuine communion with God through Christ who is himself “the bread of life†(Jn 6.34, 41)." - Orthodox Church in America, "During the eucharistic prayer, the Lamb is consecrated to be the Body of Christ, and the chalice of wine is consecrated as His Blood. Here's the surprising part: the priest places the "Lamb" in the chalice with the wine. When we receive communion, we file up to the priest, standing and opening our mouths wide while he gives us a fragment of the wine-soaked bread from a golden spoon." - Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America, Frederica Mathewes-Green. http://www.pravmir.com/why-not-open-communion/ This link goes into explaining the issue very well and notes that a lot of this discussion revolves around the "traditions" of the churches in terms of their practice of Communion. Needless to say, Nothing indicates the tradition of transubstantiation as stated by the Roman Church. There is nothing in the Orthodox teaching which would be of any concern to a Lutheran, Anglican or United Methodist as being different than the way they were taught. The concern arises in the denial of certain groups of people from "their" sacraments. The problem lies in the use of the sacrament to instead of bringing people together by a common theology, they segregate them apart by their traditions.