Jay K

Tampa Turtle, happy byproduct, YES! YES!!

Yes, I count it all. One Scout brought me his schhol stuff for me to CONSIDER for credit towards Communications MB requirements. I counted them, they were all "A"s

Prove to me that a Scout (And I have a very high opininion of just about every Scout) CANNOT demonstrate a skill one month after passing a requirement. I have seen that nearly 100% Can. Any Scout in my Troop can sharpen an axe after seeing 1 five minute demonstration, and then doing it himself. I never sharpen my axe. I pick a Scout to do it, and WOW! They still know how! I'm shocked. They can still ride a bike, too. They can even pass a Swim test every year. I noticed a reference t a Sheep Shank. It isn't required.

Sigh. There are troops like that. Some of "my" Scouts came from them. "My" Scouts aren't all interested in advacement, but the other 95% are. They are also interested in camping, doing service, and having fun. "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy," but what does all play make Jack? A scout who missed an IMPORTANT part of the program. You should read what BP said about advancement, and I don't have much time for folks who try to retcon BP. He was wise, and knew what he was about. I'm a little ashamed of myself for even gettin sucked into this "Discussion." How about "What if we made the uniform a pink breechclout and a bone through the nose? "

Contact the Regional people directly. I've ridden this Merry-go-round before. What the Council people are saying is probably translated "We don't think you can go." When you go up a level, you'll likely hear "Sure! come on up! We'd like to get the perspective of District level folks." When you get there, though, don't throw your Council under the bus. Not "I've been pestering my Council for years." (This might be what your Council is fearing,) but "This is a long standing interest of mine..."

I would have to say Bear. In the Bear year, they are starting to hit their stride, can work togetehr, and understand the program. Tiger and Wolf, there's more staring off into space and having to have stuff explained more. WEBELOS, we're starting to get serious, and there's a lot of stuff to get through in two years to get them to Arrow of Light and across that bridge. Yup, Bear is the most fun.

Further: Contact your District Executive and ask for Commissioner support. A trained Commissioner should be able to tactfully suggest corrections to an off-course unit, without you getinng identified as a troublemaker parent. The District advancement chair should also be aware if there's disconnect on requirements not being fulfilled correctly. The District hypothetically has a "unit rescue" plan, and that Unit needs "unit rescue." It isn't at an advanced stage, like all the Adults quit, but you are in a stage that warrants concern and support.

BP said "Any silly ass can camp in GOOD weather." Klondike is still an outdoor event even without camping. You only need 1 trained adult, and one other adult. That SM needs more training. When I was a Scout, we didn't camp much. We did lots of hikes (enough for Hiking Merit Badge) and bike rides (enough for Cycling Merit Badge.)We did some day canoeing. We went to Camporees and summer "long term" camp. When my Dad became Scoutmaster, camping went way up, but I was then in an Air Explorer post. Our post did camp with them some.

We do lots of campouts. Some are backpacking, some are canoe camping, and some are basically car camping, with a swim or a bike ride attached. I run a Scout Aquatics program, which is open to everyone in our and the surrounding Councils. We do Brownsea requirements on the campouts. First Class in 1 year is NO problem. The program should not be advancement driven, but if we camp and cook and do the edged tool stuff, hike with the compass/map, what's the huhu? Sometimes we get a Scout who won't come on many camp outs, so no FC1Y, but that's his problem. The events fulfill Brownsea advancement. Nobody's pushing anybody, except to participate in the events. I don't understand, sometimes, why folks get so wound up about this stuff. I had a Scout, briefly, who would only come to Troop meetings. He quit and told others that Scouts is lame. Well, if you only come to Troop meeings, I'd expect you to think that. One thing that I actually do, is encorage the Scout to take Firt Aid Merit Badge early in their Scout Camp (week) career. I attend the class, and help out (I have a Wilderness Frirt Aid cert.) 2nd Class 1st Aid and 1st Class 1st Aid are covered in the class. A week long immersion in First Aid is good for them. This is kind rambling, but my point is: No, don't shoot FC1Y in the head. Frankly I think it's a silly notion. Let's shoot THAT idea in the head. Or, Boom ! Boom! Boom! Three rounds, center mass.

No. If the Scout takes MORE than a year, so what?

When I get a situation like this, I tell the Scout "sell me." Present your argument. Tell me why I should honor your request. Sometimes they shrug, and go and do the requirement to a level that there's no question. Sometimes they do "sell me, " but not often. I had a Scout at a recent Lifesaving MB class who told me he's a lifeguard and CPR certified. I said "Show me the cards." "They are at home." So, he did all the requirements. I had him demo and lead some modules, but hey, if you're going to "sell me, " you've got to produce.

I was an older Scout at a camporee, maybe 1968. I told two younger Scouts to go get some Green Lantern oil. So, 10 minutes latter, here they come, with sandwich bags containing about a tablespoon of GREEN LANTERN OIL. So, I heartily congratulate them. I go off on a search. I see a parade of young Scouts, all holding little bags of lantern oil. I trace it to a Troop campsite. I congratulate the man I see stitting by a jug of green oil, on great foresight. He tells me "I have a left-handed smoke bender, too!" He shows me a sheet metal and stove pipe...Left handed smoke bender. In another post, I'll relate how my buddies and I actually caught a snipe.

Explaining the game beforehand would completely defeat the purpose. I think that the point it makes, however belatedly, is one of the most important things in the whole dang course. Denigrating it as a "management" course is to miss out. There are mangement principles taught and even practiced, but that's maybe 40% of the course, if that. And anyone, if you don't want to take the Wood Badge course, don't. I, personally, suggest that you do. Don't get all analytical, let some of it be mystery. I bugged every Wood Badger I knew about "what is it?" and I put all the answers together, and didn't have the picture AT ALL. Basementdweller's experience was Atypical. Yours could be like his, but, probably not.

The way I teach it, right or wrong, or awkward: 1.Troop (Pack!) attention! 2.Please remove all non-Scouting headgear. 3. Color guard: Advance! 4. Color Guard: Prepare to post the colors! (The color guard poises, or fumbles with the hoist, etc. When they are ready, and I've seen this take 5 minutes, which is why "Salute!" is later...) 5. Scout Salute! Those not in Uniform, hand over heart! ( a nuance for Scout people not in uniform, do the Scout sign with the hand that you place over your heart.) 6.Post the colors! 7. Pledge, Scout Promise, law, what have you. 8. "Tout!" (French for "done!" often mis-stated "two." 9. Color Guard: return to ranks. I have them turn a throw a quick salute at the flag, and then depart. 10. At ease...dismissed. Reverse: 1. Attention! (Remove headgear,etc.) 2. Color guard, advance! 3. Color Guard, prepare to retrieve the colors! 4. Scout Salute! (etc.) 5. Retrieve the colors! ( It just seems awkward to say "Color Guard" again here.) 6. Color Guard, return to ranks! At this point, if the flag was on a hoist, and folded during retrieval, the guard will present it to the Cubmaster, course director, or other "High official." 7. "Tout!" 8. At ease...Dismissed! Can Cubs handle this? Yes. Will they get it right? Mostly. I've taught this to Cubs, Boy Scouts, Venturers, Campfire youth, Girl Scouts, Adult leaders in an IOLS class, and others.

I've conducted many Chapel Services. I don't go Generic. I tell the participants right up front what I'm going to do, and grant them all permission to go off into the woods (in sight, or with a buddy) and commune in silence with whatever. Then, I proceed. I usually have a few worship songs, and then talk about BP's observations on religion, from Footsteps of the Founder. BP was a Preacher's Kid.(This message has been edited by Jay K)

Here's my answer: The Admonition is the command Christ gave to his Disciples. Anyone who obeys that command can't go much wrong.

I had a Dad demanding an explanation for why I was charging $3/participant for the two hour Scout aquatics session I was putting on. He interrupted the instruction i was giving to the Scouts to do this. ( There were less than 30 participants!) He was shocked when I told him it cost me $90 to rent the pool. (That's very inexpensive: I had a troop that wanted me to do an event for them at a pool near them, and it would have cost $300 to rent that one.) Anyway, he cooled off. It's hard to see what costs are going to be incurred by someone putting on an event. If they bought ammunition and didn't use it, they stiil paid for the ammo.

There's a Scoutmaster in our town who is in his late 70's. He's going to step down on his 80th Birthday. A Scoutmaster of another Troop in town was in that guy's troop. The guy in his 70's, I have seen at Training, taking the course from me.

Scout Camp is the same, as far as I can tell, as when I was a Scout, except...female staff...I've gone 8 years as an Adult, now. If you ask me, It's a BLAST!! I let the Scouts take every Merit Badge they want. If it's too much for them, they learn. If they complete every one, great! Some Scouts want to take two Merit badges and play cards. Some want to take 5 and go nuts doing them. I can't determine for the Scout what to do, it's their Troop. I just nudge here and there. I've had a Scout or two worry about what the parent will think, but I tell that Scout I'll talk to the parent if they want. Sometimes there's a very real reason they don't finish a badge, like they got hurt, or it was stormy and we got evacuated during a class. One thing that I do do, and reccomend everywhere, is, have the Scout work on the MB BEFORE going to camp. Then, they may finish the badge early in the week, or be excused from a class on days that the requirements being covered were already done by that Scout. Partials brought home: I will try to find a Counselor that will help them finish it, or go back next year and finish it then. Or, just forget it. The purpose of Merit Badges is to learn a little bit about something. Maybe you take a few sessions and decide that you don't like that one. Fine. The other thing is: If Camporee is announced as Merit Badges, and you don't want to do Merit Badges, go to camporee and don't do Merit Badges. I remember one where we brought our bikes and rode a local bike trail. We got back to camp, and other boys were asking ours "What Merit Badge did you take?" They said. "none!" The reactions were priceless. (We actually did a 15 mile ride that could count towards Cycling MB. )

We had a young man at a college very near our Charter partner's facility. He's an Eagle. He was with us October-May one school year, was gone over the summer, came back and was with us August- May, graduated, and went into the Amricorps. He was outstanding. He worked well with the Scouts, and he encouraged the scouts regarding advancement in a way that us middle aged men could not. I think of the Peanuts tv specials, where the adults sound like squawking muted trumpets. "My" own Eagles, as they go off to college, are encouraged by me to find a local Troop and offer their support.

That's exactly it, Basementdweller. "My" patrol ( I was the PL) was a blast at OLS. The CD gave each patrol a bead when we answered a question correctly, or beat the other patrols at something. At the end, my guys put our big haul of beads on a string and said "Here! wear this, and when anybody asks, tell them what a loud-mouth know-it-all you are!" I wear it with pride, and anyone asks, I tell them: "my OLS patrol told me that when anyone asks, it's because I'm a Loud Mouth Know It All. I try to instill that spirit when I instruct IOLS. Get your Wood Bagel Certificate (and beads.)

Nylon burning is a valid concern. We had a scout sitting by the fire at one Flag Burning. We kept telling him to stand up. (It was actually a 48 Star flag. It must have been one of the firt Nylon flags ever made.) Anyway, the fumes made him ill, and he was evacuated to his home.) A single flag makes less effluent than an 18 wheeler locking it's brakes on the interstate. I know! dissolve it, respectfully, in a bucket of Toluene, but of course, what do you then do with the Toulune? I guess I'd decide that it's a ceremonial flag burning, so it's kinda okay. My Scouts did notice that I dive into the fire ring to intercept a piece of plastic that A scout tossed at it, but I'll turn around and burn a whole plastic flag? I don't know the answer.

That will make for some drab, colorless, shirts.

The main thing I saw was, they want to get everybody on the same page. Example: We all had knives. "Okay, start sharpening your knives. " We set to it. "Now we will show you the way Boy Scouts wants it done." Away and down, no back stroke, no circular motion. So, That's the way I teach it, away and down. At Camp school, they asked me to throw a rope. I threw it. Then they told the whole class that I did it wrong,(it was special!) and then showed us the "Boy Scout " way to throw it. So, you might have a great, even better way to do something, but "they" want you to know the "Boy Scout" way to do it. Also, they showed us some good ways to teach some of the things. My advice: Just do it.

I'm not sure that I can answer this objectively. I went to then-called OLS becuse I was told the it was part of the Scoutmaster training continuum. None of it was particularly new to me, but there were some nuances, and I really appreciated it. I took the first day May 1st, 2004, and the second day, April 30th, 2005. Two days, home by dinnertime. Not a big deal, if you ask me. I have become an IOLS trainer. I have trained some guys mornings during a week at Scout Camp, and I did some on a four day canoe camping trip where we did about 2.5 hour/day. Since we were camping, and filtering Lake water, and navigating by map and compass, and actually cooking on fire, I did just check some of the boxes. If your District is "Quirky," take it at another District, or another Council. I have the book (syllabus)"Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills." I bought it at the Scout Shop. It does proclaim two tracks: An actual class., or "This course also presents the opportunity to implement a mentor program using more experienced trainers to work one-on-one with new leaders at a time that may be more convenient for them, teaching one skills session at a time if necessary..." (page 6, "Scheduling the Course.) When I was training my Troop Committee chair, I checked a lot of things off, because I had camped with him and our Scouts dozens of times, And I had seen him do those things with Scouts. I hope that you can track down some options upon getting this information. Send me a personal message if you like. Jay